in your estimation to a. trade war and how damaging could that be to world economic growth prospects i don't know if. you're an economist so. there is very few things that most economists agree on and that is the trade war is bad for everybody it is crazy from a point from an economist point of view it's crazy to see how politicians are not only doing certain things that are reacting not do and do not run. on still right he he's going to hurt the american people. yes he's going to protect the steel producers. in maybe a few jobs but of course how do you do that how do you protect your project by actually having everybody else they higher prices including the companies that used to will be the countries that produce cars and refrigerators and who in who pays

for these higher in the more expensive cars and refrigerators the american people so essentially he's taking money from the american people and giving it to these people that benefit now obviously the it's politics if you look at where the steel companies are who are going to benefit there are the swing states that gave him the presidency and he says ok california are going to lose but i don't care about californians they're democrats anyway. so it makes sense from his you know narrow political view to do that now what's in comprehensible is that then europeans do the same thing right we're going to we're going to put a higher price on board now you know who's going to pay these higher price they're european citizens they say are shooting yourself in the fort or i'm going to retaliate by shooting myself in the foot all this is stupid. this is filthy and you shouldn't do that even if the president in a state is crazy let him be crazy but don't bring these grays in his back to europe

i don't like you don't think about the tax a potential target for the burden of the new suggestion is going to be thought of and scotch as yet and what you do with the squid which i'm delighted to present you with for she put the scotch and only scorch on as in the queen and passenger of many friends thank you thank you so much for being now it's thank you thank you. coming up after the break i'm to you to father stuff of this very get us economic and political debates here in catalonia join us. welcome back to the glorious that i didn't exist in barcelona but i'm first joined

by professor john. another distinguished economist and director of the master's program an international finance trade and development is yama thank you for coming to the like simon sure thank you for inviting me now i'm interested in why so many distinguished economist such as yourself contributed to the the constitutional debate in catalonia at the very beginning of their independence of money and there was the first reaction of the spanish estate was to bombard catalan people the idea that independence would not be feasible from i cannot be a point a lot of very falls who. the hell were published in newspapers continuously and many of us that were looking at the issue from a modern. standpoint or a more concrete way of thinking. we started to talk to each other since there was

a unified act a community of catamount was when you spent most of or three of in the united states but a cook community of catalan economists across the world from the various centers of research indeed indeed many many of those many of the catalans that we are writing about the independents that we made the first call collations that we come up with starting resolve many of us were working abroad it was a network of economists working in many places there were these i had to say how can it be that these lives are published in newspapers or people are starting to believe them so we went and we decided that all. asians the right things the group of economists who were successful in raising the level of the discourse in terms of the constitutional debate i would argue that the answer these are sounding yes to the point that two years later let's say around two thousand and fourteen even two

thousand and fifteen the economic debate stop being a debate just let me let me give you like a simple example oh the people or the arguing for example you if you look at the newspapers in two thousand and twelve two thousand and thirteen two thousand and fourteen sorry there would be all these because they meant an independent get along yet. catalonia will not be able to pay their pensions that's a misstatement and then you say because the state does have all the pensions cut along you would lose it i'll think think about yourself you think you know only imagine that i. hold my morning in the bank if i become independent all the money that they have been saving over time in order to pay for my retirement so i'm going to lose it all what do you tell that to people and people who will become what it about. but this is a lie. because pensions are not paid by forms that were collected in the

past and now are put into investment and so on the pensions that are being paid today i based on the taxes that are being collected today for the pensions of my parents receive basically are based on the taxes on my celebes if the one year becomes independent the watercourse will remaining at the la niña and they will pay the taxes and in fact we made a very simple calculation we said the same for each cattle and that is contributing . how much would the pensions be separate systems and we found one that there are many younger catalans the ones that are more more young cattle and than in the rest of the space event of demographics exactly so for the start of that as you already observe that there's going to be more people for every pension to c.p. and second among these young there's less unemployment so not only there are more but they want more often and thirdly have

a higher self. i mean the rest of us pain so if you stop and you separate pensions think that the money would be about ten percent higher than the rest of spain eve the same rules remained obviously the couple in government can decide to raise pensions can decide to decline of use pensions but if the same rules that we have now in spain pensions would be ten percent higher suppressed wouldn't commit to some other issues. of you as unfair as the brakes in britain how damaging economically do you think that could be from an independent standpoint looking at that issue i think that it might be there might be substantial losses for the u.k. from being separated for europe but i think actually that the big loss is going to be also for the european union a while we saw over the years felt and perhaps that's because of my us is ok show and my love for some of those principles are they always felt that the u.k.

had a very sensible position he many of the european officials and that the u.k. has played a very important role in actually a boy doing some of their strong arm government sort of policies that picks up french and german are more likely to whom to put on or to or to support a progressive until a thank you so much for being my guest today they hope whatever else happens in this respect of trade where there's no suggestion of tolerance of scotch whisky seven that be a disaster for the exam and quit which i'm delighted to present you with you know the only scotch in that queer no other substance thank you very much on a show that's the case. and you must go well as a former finance counsellor in the catalan government and as one of the world's leading mathematical economists he's a fine job the barcelona graduate school of economics and a professor at pump of fabric university and barcelona his textbook on

microeconomics is the most used postgraduate my cracker nomics textbook in the world. here you know i speaks to alex professor welcome to the alex salmond show thank you for having me here i was interested. why so many cattle an economist taken part vigorously in the independence debate but you have course actually government minister for to spell so you made that transition from academic economists to government ministers what brought you into public service public services importer if i have to evaluate subjective when i was a youngster was a very politically involved so politics does always attracted me and. after a long period in academia there are some personal going to do you think which are there i believe strongly that there are many things that can only be done from from

government that transition from being an academic serious to theoretical economists yes full of greek letters and your and your equations to actually the application of economics through policy how easy was that transition it can be done you have to do the well of some a skill of talking to people. expounding ideas economic ideas the explain simply one can make people feel sure about them if you tell them that there are some great letters behind what i'm saying. if you would argue that your example and the was the parts part of the inspiration why so many cattle an economist took part in the constitutional debate and that was the fact that you'd been a political practitioner encourage members of academia to get involved no i doubt that the look of half the population in colonial. or.

independence. soul. the logic says that half of the economists and got the money are independents there are many economists. many good economists need a profession. profession which is where international lights lots of us from everywhere cash one question about how an economist estimates the effects of catherine and the pandas presumably you have to trade off the potential short disruption depending how a settlement was reached against a potential medium term benefit from perhaps improved decision making is violence. we estimated the some of the. some of the issues is one. to contemplate leaving. leaving the. union for

me a scenario in your scenario involving independents who have to be in a scenario there for some coming of mediation the mediation of. because we don't want to go to. a union for economic reasons but also for other. reasons we are now experiencing what it means to be under the protection of the european. union. there are people in jail. you can count them. the. couple of hands. we have seen the judiciary has done in germany in britain in. in scotland so an enemy scenario you see catalonia future friendly

european union but of course the right to resist in the process of leaving the european union what's your assessment of the protests. actual economic damage for the united kingdom i cannot see how the how the united kingdom. could possibly. benefit from the store large to become a single. europe it's totally in bangor while europe has benefited a lot from trade from medicaid in. from europe it seems to me. that move i don't know where you'll be tossed in catalonia in near future i hope it success but when you do then please use the quick you know the drill whisky in the quick passage your close friends and frank you so much for appearing in the exam which are. very much in mind frankly coming up on next week's show we asked

essential question of what is catalonia one thing is for certain there's more to it than f.c. barcelona is it a geographical construct on a spin on an ancient european nation and are its politics a problem or an opportunity in this troubled europe we ask the people who should help us in this quest the poets a journalist and academics to answer the question of what is catalonia one of the best from the walls of the immediate post-war period was the third man starting orson welles and then not from austin wells who is a really nasty piece of work makes the point that in the blood for the rule of the balls as an italy it produced michelangelo leonardo da vinci and the remember songs meanwhile five hundred years of peace and stability in switzerland produced a crooked clock. a bit of an exaggeration but the something and the argument there is tales of turbulence which produce great art and also great ideas and i suspect

that the world renowned economists that we've spoken to the day only got involved in the catalonian political process because of the interesting times that catalonia was going through one thing's for certain the economics as practiced of catalonia is not the dismal science but the science of hope and then tests a patient of better times to come from tasmania and me and the whole crew at the alec salmon show it's good bye for now.