now we're back with cia batterer and raul from all what larson former top cia official ended two decades letter and the agency talking about the spy bureau's rolling today's united states internal and external policy so ralph michael powell has just recently met hands over russia's intelligence verus to protect the american people as he put it so hostile rhetoric threatening sanctions aside russia and the u.s. are still program like enough to work together on some issues right well that's right sophia it's really important that professionals in the intelligence business not cease cooperation even at the hardest times we have a long history between the u.s. and russia that goes back in the soviet days of setting aside our most grievous

complaints against one another to cooperate in areas like counterterrorism and sometimes on counterintelligence and other issues that impact on both on our bilateral relations and i applaud the recent meeting of the three russian intelligence. visits chiefs in washington with director pompei and others i think it's a great move toward to reinforce the idea that we must continue to cooperate in areas of common interest both countries now obviously the congress is up in arms in american intelligence she was meeting why would the lawmakers big gains this if it does bring tangible results in the fight against terrorism. well i know some people in congress and i interact quite a bit with congress too if you will inform and advise specifically on the areas that we need to talk with one another to continue keeping our country safe

both of our countries i thin american interest to not see any russians die in terrorist attacks as it is in russian interest to prevent any terrorist attacks in the united states or elsewhere in the world so i don't think there's any dispute on that in congress and i think maybe some of the posturing is frankly political as opposed to substantive i haven't heard anyone say we shouldn't be talking to one another on counterterrorism issues democrats senator chuck schumer has demanded publicly naming everyone who had contact with the russian intelligence delegation and we want that sort of all across the board disclosure being that imaging for the nation. yes i think it sends the wrong message if if i were to talk to senator schumer i would i would certainly urge him not to politicize you talked about politicizing intelligence earlier this would be an example of it if we don't do this cooperation with it but between one another in areas such as.

exchanging information and analysis on the terrorist groups and their activity whether it's in syria or around the world in the caucasus in them in the u.s. we should all be fired so we have to have the courage to do that it's in my experience of i was involved in the earliest if you will lays on work between the u.s. and russia at the time of the breakup of the soviet union and i don't recall a time when three intelligence chiefs all came together to washington such as just happen and so i take it as a very positive signal of a desire to do more and i hope both sides can find the strength to do that. this is just a chance for politicians to loughton t.v. friendly blaming spies right and left because on the other hand surely they must care about the actual issues of national security right yes i hope so and i have i have a deep respect for senator schumer and i i quote i would question this based on what

i've seen in the media and i hope behind it all it's not a seriously questioning why we would be doing this at this time i would also add that again this is a somewhat unorthodox few for someone like me i'm not a believer in applying sanctions to people that are doing their jobs we have a long history of of trying to avoid that sort of politicization of intelligence so i think we try to have to try to find out find a way to deescalate the politicization of intelligence activity it would help again if both sides particularly in this case i would have to put more pressure on the russian side to stop interfering in domestic affairs with intelligence activity and that would set a better environment to deescalate the rising tensions on a political level that the fact that intelligence committees on capitol hill haven't been briefed about this mean that the administration has no trust in

congress. i don't think i would go that far sophia i think it reflects the very sharp political dividing lines right now in our country and not just between the democrats and republicans but between within the parties themselves i think the democrats are struggling to reestablish their identity to decide what part or wing of the democratic party will move forward into the next election cycles and i think the republican party is trying to decide how much it supports the president some do some don't as you know i'm not the true betraying any secrets here so i think there is there are various conflict and tensions and instabilities within both parties again having watched this for much of my over sixty years i have seen other times in our country when we've seen just as confused and dazed and we generally emerge out of it stronger than we enter that so i'm overall confident that we'll get out of this phase that we're in stronger than we

were before we entered it so one terror attack has already been prevented thanks to the cia sharing intelligence with moscow and put it has personally thanked the americans for their help in that how does that work what the intelligence agencies i mean how do you coppery it on some matters when there is general mistrust and hostility i mean how do you know you're not being caught think that's a great question and i love that question. yeah well i love the question because it gets back to the heart of what we are what i hope we are and what we strive to be and even on our on the days we don't we don't reach this ethics i would call it of intelligence our basic motto our basic if you will standard is we have a duty to warn we have a duty to warn anybody anywhere in the world if they might their lives might be threatened by terrorist activity and of course in my time at cia working in counterterrorism i personally instructed my officers to analyze and then provide

the russian government with information that i believe prevented attacks on russian citizens during my time so i consider that a high one of our best days any time we help one another prevent attacks where people might be killed obviously and so that's that's a great story and as we've done it before this is just fortunately on this occasion there's a little bit of recognition that it happened and i think that's a good thing so do you think the recent pentagon military doctrine shift from the war on terror to great power while great with china and russia given higher priority now means that the cia's anti terror effort will fall to her. i don't think so sophia because terrorism is not going away we fact i'm a little worried right now because every time there's been a relative lull in activity such as we've seen since a little bit of reduction of conflict in syria recently there's been

a rebound and then the terrorists every merged in a new form so i'm not in any way believer in the idea that we were past this threat of terrorism i think at the same time the great power rivalry doesn't necessarily imply that we're enemies again or that we're back to a cold war i think in a way whether you're that you apply this idea of rivalry to china or russia it's a recognition that both countries should be taken seriously and that their interests are sometimes a threat to the united states but i would describe it more as competition than adversarial. i've heard former cia officials lament the fact that the agency has fewer resources now than sure in the cold war but does new technology like the n.s.a. surveillance mean that fewer people are needed at the agency anyway. i generally am not a person that believes that intelligence resources are insufficient i think we have plenty of resources and we have to be smarter in how we go about things as you as

you indicated technology helps leverage we can leverage technology as afore we call a force multiplier that makes us stronger there are other ways to do it too i don't think numbers is often the way to attack the problem i think we need smart people we need people who have the authorities they need the resources they need to do their jobs but i don't think the numbers indicate whether we have enough coverage in other words i believe or the u.s. intelligence community we have some we have sixteen different intelligence and it is within the what we call our intelligence community we have plenty of capability i think where we need to make more efforts is in how we decide what we do and then being more efficient in going about our missions so will the agency have less need for gathering old fashioned cold war style human intelligence like i don't know talking to someone or infiltrating a guerrilla camp control like hacking is dropping on phone conversations

intercepting e-mails spying would. replace the human intelligence component. well you're talking to an old school person so i don't feel i need to reform my thinking at this point my life so i'd have to answer you by saying there's always room there's been room for of thousands of years for old spice old fashioned espionage spies go back to biblical times and you know as long as there are humans on the earth there's a need to know what our if you will competitors and adversaries are thinking and human spies will never be replaced by cyber or hacking or any other killer drones or any other technology in fact in the one nine hundred ninety s. in my view are the u.s. intelligence can community became too enamored with what i call national technical means whether that was satellites or other things to replace human intelligence we thought the world changed after the collapse of the soviet union and it had we're still living in the same world i was born in the one nine hundred fifty four so i believe to answer your question we're always going to need understanding of

adversaries and even some of our friends plans and intentions because by having that knowledge will make better decisions and also if you like more technology progresses we're typewriters and old special letters are the safest thing out there still anyway as well thank you so much as it is and to you right thank you so much for this interview this wonderful insight always show you all the best of luck or talk until ralph larsen two decades cia veteran former moscow station chief about the cia's relationship with the trumpet ministration and its role in today's counting quilt that's it for the senate and if so if and cos you're next.

when a loved one is murder it's natural to seek the death penalty for the murderer i would prefer it be to limit death penalty just because i think that's the fair thing the right thing research shows that for every nine executions one convict. innocent the idea that we were executing innocent people is terrifying those just move the present and then we will hear even many of the times families want the death penalty to be abolished the reason we have to keep the death penalty here is because that's what murder victims' families what that's going to give them peace that's going to give them justice and we come in saying. not quite enough we've been through this this isn't the way.

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