king economist's super bowl watch and listen terry says create a show as ever love the way you win the show on goodbye for now we've not seen the last of you and your bonus is alex no you haven't because we're back on in a few seconds bob says just catching up on the back of alec salmon two episodes and interviews with kenny mcleish regarding independence westminster and especially breaks it these are fascinating and that's reminder to everybody if you can't watch the show live it's all available on the r.t. dot com website on alex's facebook and are you cheap channel bobby mcpherson says great interview with a new mcleish time leader fresh in and straight talking on scotland's political situation trump and the dangerous company he keeps at among the interesting topics for sure yet to be says fascinating to the parallels between scotland in catalonia professor and tutor was particularly persuasive yes he was indeed. sent from catalonia says big banks in catalonia i get the feeling our two countries are going to be close friends in the coming years i do hope so then our first two programs on

catalonia we look at the politics and the economics of the constitutional battle being fought with spain today show goes deeper into catalan people and culture as alex attempts to answer the question of what is catalonia and who better to answer on the coach of catalonia the leading poet i knew better to know what the people are saying than one of the key horse in cattle in years top radio station so by to alex in barcelona where better to start this exploration of prattle on national identity them to interview the top poet the catalogue i spoke to from possibly source. francis welcome. thank you very much you've seen by many one of the widest as the leader of what's often called the generation of catalan poets what provoked such an upsurge in the catalan poetry and four of your generation. i think you know people born in the forty's and fifty's by the time we were able to

decide what we wanted to do we had two ways in front of us as far as writing goes we could choose to write on them or we could choose to write in the spanish we had been brought up in the spanish under the franco or all of us within the have television when at redhill within their newspapers very few books from me fifty's on which then if you decide to write i think what you look at is what you know and what you know is what you have surrounding you your family your landscape your language and that language was catalan so it's like this up through a tree that goes to the branches and then. might become green or not have flowers or not but the bends so the suppression of catalogs under franco actually

led to the the opposite effect of the old dictator was there was looking for i think partly. because you saw what was happening and why i mean when you look around even of the char i was a child. you realize you are using a language and maybe your family sayings in those songs or you go to a village and that's the language of this is spoken and suddenly in the public place these language doesn't exist. it's like a ghost and. children have curiosity and you try to discover and when you discover you realize that those are your roots and i think it's important to find your roots if you want to grow and also if you want to become yourself robert scotland's national poet drop famously in the scots line

it's primarily because he wanted to make a statement that the scots language was the equal of of english or any other language if you want to demonstrate that you can express ideas perhaps for you better cataloging and in spanish or any other language i think probably was trying to express. your own ideas i would say your feelings and your emotions more than this the language the tools we had were all in another language so it was important for us to recover the tools to join their eldest which were not all that all and i think we were very welcomed by the generation who had been born just before the civil war and. probably that they were the last generation in that culture in that language and when they saw that they were young

people innocent enough to join the league. of wanting to write poetry and they really helped us a lot. you felt in good company and you felt also. belonging to a tradition which was ours when you were starting out as a young poet did you think. the half a century or so later you'd be in a an environment where catalan is the leading language the official language of catalan yet did you think that transition would would carry that far it's very difficult to know what you thought when you were young and i cannot i cannot remember i cannot jump into myself sixty years ago or seventy years ago. probably not to answer the question i've been trying times on this program is for the international audience what is cattle o.d.s. catalonia and the nation as an antonymous region is

a part of the european continent community of identity what is catalytic i think it's all these things together it's it's a whole nation aids that people basically think that people's belongings and wanted to belong to the cattle and then it's a languages at least three it's a culture it's a landscape which many things i think. what's. what made. the scottish people. what makes french people french what makes the american people who is one of the newest nations american i think it's. something which is there to everyone and also something which comes from. in history.

and also having some sort of common future something that. something which. in the future is going to be better than what we have what we had to the past. i don't know what the future holds for catalonia but i hope it's a good hope it can be toasted in a quick. thank you know that you know that thank you very much risk in the quick we have. to be open that some friends from santander as we can and did to bring it with you know now because a. i know where that risk is going through a. thank you note joined by mark mckinnon a mutt. a journalist and write one the top radio station in catalonia

a finger on the pulse been one of the people saying about the events of the last few months well i think there was a lot of worry from people about what's going on in catalonia so maybe some years ago. called the given show a lot of people thinking about this issue people by then were more worried about unemployment economics corruption but from the latest events of last year polls show that people is now thinking about independents as a think unsolved and asking politicians to solve it so the middle worst bustling radio station when what are your listeners phoning in a boat or whether they forget about in the permits are they falling down the politicians to go on with what was the word of the street well i think that there are a lot of people thinking that this issue should we tackle with a referendum other people thinking that there was no way to solve it in an agreed

or through an agreement with madrid and that catalan government should go in just declare independence in try to implement a republic and some other people think that's all this issue should be forget let's go to the autonomy and let's do other things more easy to achieve what do you think the argument this political debate is good if it is going to be a new strategy evolving from the independent supporters to new government is going to be more conducive to at least talking with what's going to happen a lot of. we are in a turning point after war has happened in the last month especially in october with the referendum the declination of in the benz i think that now. and

then spark this should. have a reflection think about what will be the next step to take and they are not together in what can be a roadmap your assessment is going to be meaningful discussions between the. new president will catalonia and the new prime minister the spirit of the going to be able to come to any understanding i think they are going to discuss late the tension but. farther than this i don't know if the talks can go farther because the cornerstone of the question is what is catalonia so. according to the spanish government is catalan is just most of the people in favor of independence but also people against in the band think that the community with the right to decide thinking about journalism reporting on these extraordinary events i mean is it a boon for journalism

a million or more people buying newspapers or more people tuning into the national radio yes there was a huge interest in what was going on these days so you know that. we can check the audience minute by minute especially people connecting by internet and in those days a thing we had record of listeners waiting for news and what was worse the reaction of what was going on. i don't know of if i. can supply the scotch whisky but i can supply the quick for the sceptical you know the drill whisky at least with and then you can toss catalunya and scott thank you thank you very much you're welcome. but one of the features of the cataloging debate has been the prevalence of cattle and academics working overseas and the prevalence also of the online media coming up after the break i speak to a professor from princeton university i'm the founder of the all the audio i

newspaper in the whole of europe. unemployment rate is down the labor participation rate is. so this goes against all the doom mongers before the election to trump and of course nobody in mainstream media wants to focus on this because it be lies there is fiercely. in a world of big partisan looting. and conspiracies it's time. to dig deeper to get the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smart we need to stop slamming the door on the shouting past each

other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching talks. welcome back and attempting to answer the question what is catalonia alex is trying to portray and to do for ends now he looks academia and online publications to find out what the people are telling the posters and what they're saying coast bush with a professor of political science at princeton university has a doctorate from harvard university and was an advisor to the world bank an internet a can do about my bank he's been a member of the american academy of arts and sciences since october twenty ten and was awarded the twenty twelfth or bar to find price. professor explaining

catalonia the feelings of people in catalonia you know as the independence supporters go and have the cattle and feelings of identity as a nation increased you're right that the sentiment for independence has grown ten years ago it was only about. fifteen percent of the population that would be favor of voting for a separate country or a nation and now it's close to fifty percent i don't think that national identity has changed that much it has become stronger and especially the support for these more radical solution has grown catalans always felt a nation or at least seemed to modern politics but they always thought that it would be possible to leave as a set of nations within a spain and that was i think the project that took place in the nineteenth century most of the twentieth century are trying to reform in spain to engage spain to get

political autonomy and the independence group was basically a minority and that is what has changed the the way to solve this conflict and how is the support for the prime those even the feelings of cattle our national house at the strip first of all the age groups in the population and also in the socioeconomic groups are the big differences. well as you know there are two main groups like forty five to forty eight percent are for pollution say that with good vote yes in a referendum on independence. forty percent now say no and the rest are be was on have no opinion. the there is a clearly a difference in terms of age so all the people are less in favor of independence i would say that perhaps it's only thirty percent are versus you know so there is a clear majority in favor of no or union with the spain among all people among the

young i would say it's two thirds that are in favor of independence if we believe the current survey so age is important. the second thing that is important is family so basically eighty percent of catalans have at least one grand parent born outside of catalonia so we cannot think of catalans as an ethnic group to basically you know a city community of people some of them have family that goes back to you know the one thousand century eighteenth century whatever but most of the population have to be very mixed origins now within those that have made mixed origins those that have more grandparents that were born here they are more in favor of of cattle independence but it's not about ethnicity i would say it's about you know the root being rooted first bush you say that the demographics tell us that the vast majority of young people favor cattle and independence the just means that the in

the perilous movement of kathleen you're just basically has to keep calm and wait for demographics and age to carry them forward. i don't know because you know things change and preferences might might change and the response of the spanish government may change although i doubt it but yes in a way i would put it in a slightly different way that perhaps. some things were done about how the generation earlier so that in ten years the majority of people in favor of independence would be big enough to do when the terminations referendum and that's what i don't understand about the spanish government because if i were me i would go for a referendum now. when things are kind of even because if you wait and you use all these repressive strategies that they are using you may end up

losing completely. for tell the future but what i can for you is that you're going to be presented with the alexander and quit the drillers whiskey and the quick only scotch whiskey nothing else works and past your course it will be only scratches the only one that i'd like to profess. now the online media has played a crucial role in the catalan debate i speak no to every said. editor of the chief of the web i don't like newspaper that has a claim to be the oldest online newspaper in the whole of europe congratulations on your long gave a t. of your thank you we keep living still twenty three years or so what have bigger rule has the the social media and online media plead in the reporting of events and obviously campaigning avails and catalunya i think that that's a trend all over the world but in catalonia it's very specific the big mass media

in catalonia the paper the space. the spanish t.v. channels. they all support the unity of spain they don't support him for independence right even they are strongly against the independence drive so the dissemination of the message came more from online media from the social meet. it play a major role but what is the basis of the catalonian national feeling qatar is a country that way it's a country that always has been fighting for freedom individual freedom collective freedom not only freedom but for instance every dime spain has been on that i think that a ship the most strong people fighting for freedom even spain where the government it's a very open society that has been always thinking of himself as

a nation i haven't the dried to that every nation have to sell their permission for decades after the franco. they the year was to help spain to become a mother country but all of the sudden on twenty ten when the spanish constitutional court broke the agreement so you would regard that as a seminal moment a watershed moment after the berlin the spanish constitutional court it reverts to even on the statute of a quarter autonomy which had already been passed in the referendum by the people of castle it that's absolutely the beginning of everything because there were sort of a pact the so-called two peace pact. because i want to have built on a me and big cover like underside but spain keep a key which is everything decided to think of only a must go to the spanish government of water there. but then catalunya have their own key also which is that everything voted in the spanish parliament mass come

back to poland and be voted in of referendum so it was a good pact you have both sides have a way to prevent major problems what happens with the constitutional court and breaking the pact was the beginning of all the whole situation we have now because of people say ok so we this is not a fair agreement as it was clear to pieces so the political reaction to that was to change the balance of opinion most of the catalunya which previously had been. for for autonomy but only a minority for independence that then became a much more balanced situation between the independents supporters and those who are still for the union with spain absolutely but i think that was not the only thing at the center i am the movement the started as a graph of the moment and it was very important those so-called popular referendum that was self organize referendums in every little town and then there were i think

seven hundred something like this president of which of course what artificial turf and ups but that showed the people that they have the power so they can decide they can organize themselves they can build something and that was a direct confrontation with the regime that was born in the spain after the franco dictatorship that is a very eccentric which came in in terms of democracy in europe because it it prevents very much the people having power but they don't take it to the first of october at least dramatic events of the organizer for the end of the the violence by the the state police sent in the the world watching what they vent so where were you when all this was going on how were you reporting what we were. we're reporting that the first moment i ever remember was almost eleven in the morning some nine in

the morning sewing when the ballot boxes were open police went to the president put them on the electoral college and the whole country saw the police breaking the glasses from the of the building so much violence that we all thought this is impossible that cannot happen that very difficult in order to. having information that you must know with decent real or not checking the information checking with the sources what really very difficult time i remember for instance we were there the first one saying that there were not elections but the independent will be proclaimed two days before the proclamation of independence and for fifty minutes northern media confirmed that there were struck by these fifteen minutes we're going to shoot for me and i was that you know by god

you were wrong that the end but we were right but the who wrong this is the end it's a very difficult moment for journalism but it's fantastic it's i think it's a privilege it's the first draft of history of the year good position to forecast if you will be going that way is that the events of last october as big a watershed as the rejection of the of the constitutional agreement at twenty ten well i think that what happened on the october the first more political question was the sentimental affair this is the end for a four part of the cut i must say that this is the end this is a political problem and the only solution to this problem must be political and that they doesn't want to accept that there is no solution i think we will see again. very hot to do the time. charting september october especially eve. to spain try to send to court the political prisoners asking sixty years for

that if that happens i think the drive for the republican independence will be again on the table for the second time in less than one year maybe within the political discourse of all sides and kathleen may be something of an answer to those absolutely i think you can follow me is very difficult today. to create a fake extruded difficult because there is so much people involved with on any of scotch and there is so much that are available that is so much people watching all the sights of the story that it is much less difficult to have this debate on for a nielsen said it is there are three means of course but it is not so easy a lot of that. but often a real we have a lot of real me upstairs time thank you so much for the for the interview i have a quick the. scots covered for loving cup so it's this whiskey in the quicken pass

that would know your many journalistic colleagues so to celebrate something like this and thank you so much for the interview. and if the programs in the c.d.'s we've learned a good deal about the cattle on constitutional crisis first the dialogue has now started between the two new governments one in barcelona and one in madrid president tara laid out his ideas for breakthrough negotiations but it would be foolish to assume that this is imminent. second the cutline dispute which began as an economic argument has moved on to other even more fundamental issues such as legality democracy and nationhood and finally to see that catalan attitudes to themselves and to the future have been evolving with events such as a rejection by the spanish constitutional court or the settlement of two thousand and ten the violence of last october i most recently the imprisonment and effective

exile of many independence leaders a decade ago most cats one saw the future in spain now the position is delicately balanced most fascinating of all was a suggestion that given the demographics of support for independence with young people overwhelmingly in favor the should policy or the spanish government might be to usher any referendum forward and equally that actual policy of the catalan movement might be to delay until they have a more comfortable majority that would be a total reversal of the current position and is unlikely to happen what is more certain is this. if one key test of nationhood is a belief in self-determination then catalona passes that standard by overwhelming majority catalans want the right to cite even if they're divided on what the decision should be it all makes everything political battle with the end game uncertain what is certain is that catalonia will stay

a focus of both european and world attention and so from alex and a team in catalonia and for me here in the studio it's good bye for now thanks to. thank you. when a loved one is murdered it's natural to seek the death penalty for the murder i would prefer and it's meaningless in the death penalty just because i think that's the fair thing the right thing research shows that for every nine executions one convict is found innocent the idea that we were executing innocent people is

terrifying and the is just no way to present in that we're even many victims' families want the death penalty to be abolished the reason we have to keep the death penalty here is because that's what murder victims' families what that's going to give them peace that's going to give them justice and we come in and say. not quite enough we've been through this this isn't the way.

i'm think sions to syria russia's security chief meets his american counterpart for talks in geneva but one topic interested journalists more than others whether you ever concerned that iran's president is a security risk of course not to me that's a silly question. the us democratic party cries fall over another suspected hacker but the answer turns out to have been much closer to call. off of us our facebook fans hundreds of. pages groups and the counseling to iran and russia for alleged political meddling also this hour. video of a british policeman slapping a teenage girl during an arrest causes outrage interesting about what come.