still says enjoy your guests and catalunya be interesting to hear their opinions now feelings are running high in the ongoing vo to beat here's a selection of reaction outside euston station but a representative sample of course but it's still much support i mean certainly if one has a chance to put it in your head you can get very good value but it doesn't really seem like the way to to run a truck full service to its infrastructure and i it really should be no immediate connectivity should you have to release the prices if you know the. chairperson who gave that quicksilver to their part of the place but when traveling europe and see this way for a longer distance to train train train to cope quite bad with the growth the economy the country that's what we need to the north of course you haven't got that many pretty things going for them at the moment but for the special region kilis still had expensive food and travel around the country. almost on a lot of play in the last place you ditched the trains in last month and you know.

yes we don't have to have to find money just to try to get these trains in boats should. be prices going up all the time i think it needs to go need to generate more of the other thing probably because a crucial wage is probably seen by some people has been the main way to go and those a lot of talk from the labor party about trying to get back to. home by the controversial at the moment i think that definitely reliable virgin trains accident because everybody tend to be pretty consistently good coffee taste today the past any more terms of pricing being reasonable it's not the cheapest service but only takes two hours and fifty minutes to me to get from you since piccadilly still part of the delighted to be joined by steve hadley the assistant general secretary of the largest real union that mt welcome to the. steve thank you for inviting me. and

comment it should be said before other really unions have been campaigning hard for retirement public ownership but many people are some people who say little privatization resulted in lots more people using the real is not a contradiction well not really i think that the group from population has a kind that largely for the people used the railways and just the price of petrol and our forms of transport has made grain was really quite economical to use up and told lately but i think that the main reason behind the our quest the renationalise the railway is the government's own figures show that a privatized system is over three times more expensive to run than a national a system because some of these really companies are actually public we wouldn't companies in the countries are more like a bill us public now and of the any better these privatizing polluters as you call it well at the end of the day we have got we have got national israel ways and

britain is just not british nationalized railways and that's one of the great sort of contradictions if you're right that every country in europe can seem to make a profit out of british railways but the british government says they can't. not be looking at the information of the real we deliver the group which is that it can sort of to it which promotes the interests of the the various companies who are in the real ways and they argue if you compare white lake and look at close unit as they put it the model shift towards the u.k. is greater than any other country in the whole continent of europe towards the real this will i mean that's probably correct because there's a thing coming in next year called the fourth railway boat and basically what that tremendous piece of legislation that's taken the worst system in the entire europe the most customer dissatisfaction the most expensive system. on average five times higher prices and more paid. people pan

a continent and it's open that open right across europe there's going to be a compulsory competitive tendering for every franchise in europe and what that support is what it was a point in britain it's markets that were previously closed off the private capital because they were nationalized been opened up they privateers that want to make a profit out of the steve head ticket can you looted their empty loot across europe and say there's a country which knows how to run it really is a jam we do a great job as france to a great job is the example of the sort to really you'd like to see run in the modern age well to be honest i think that any national railway and europe is doing better than britain i mean that's the starting point i mean we don't want a return to the old valleys of british rail where we're the top dog in management structure i can a feudal system if you like what we want there's a an industry that takes shareholders and stakeholders in the industry like the trade unions like the passenger groups like democratically elected local

authorities and we want a plan and infrastructure and plan investment along those lines but if we but the days of british rail you described as a feudal structure of no. astonishingly people still remember the beaching cuts quite a bit i don't think was another example of. a government initiative to chalk the benefit of the real way which is still remembered to this day but still it's still in people's lips the beaching cuts of that happened under the publicly owned system how could you go until the same sort of chopping wouldn't happen again will they guarantee for that is that we have strong trade union and unions in a decent labor party i mean i think beijing was an apt absolutely massive phone call in the long term a lot of planes are being be opened i think the environmental damage that the beijing courts have done a probably at the p.s.a. test so i think that we're looking forwards with think we need a democratically controlled railway so. them is properly invested and that's cheap

i mean when people are paying five times less on a continent people in this country are getting really ripped off for a terrible service and of course some of the biggest places other than the london commuting runs i mean did you think when you came in to trade union politics you'd be standing shoulder to shoulder with some of these bull hearted commuters coming into the city of london lived in london for thirty years. and the seven says i've never been fantastic but the level of overcrowding noise is something else and that again that boils down to lack of investment because they technology is there not that you could grow more trains but they decision has been taken because these franchises are awarded every five or six years maybe get it. there's no really in the real incentive for private companies to invest long term and isn't that congestion on the trains and making commuters lives easier what they want to do is get and make a quick buck and get back out again have you got

a structure in mind for a public really how would we avoid the the british rail feudal structure as you called how could you see that a new structure for a new publicly owned really well thank john mcdonnell and the labor party is as actually forwarded a blueprint for that and what he's talking about it is a democratically controlled railway you would have consumer groups you would have for example transport or tear fell as another called you would have trade unions and that up at a party there but jointly controlled and the democratic way the railway system operated and bore and vestment took place and can you point to a late july comparison from the last few years which indicates that perhaps a publicly owned real way runs better than a privately operated one well absolutely if you look at these cost man lane which is not been read by that l n e r the only time that that actually delivered a profit was when it was in the pub. except there for nearly two years and put

millions back and that is treasury i don't recall it was privately run then publicly run no privately run again and no publically run again yes and paid and the private firms actually had to back at least three times in total because they bought into the day the contract is loaded so at the start of the contract they make greater profits and as a contract was on the subsidies decrease that they get from the government so what they do they they they wanted for the first few years they cream off all the profit and then they hand back the case so if you look at the structure of the new public system which would have the benefit of of having an integrated structure there wouldn't be an argument for having an integrated trade union reps in taishan them in your the largest of the real workers' union by some distance but it will be an argument for having a single union operating for real we workers so's we didn't have disputes among unions as well as disputes between units of management and the absolute they were

and are still union were not for about a privilege for the higher pay grades or about a privilege for people who were awake already work we organized right across the railway industry and would encourage everybody to join our intake. but with a vote for your union can i thank you for begin now it's time to show i don't know if there's going to be a single really workers' union steve but i know we're going to present you with the exam and quickly you know the drill and you don't have to wait your next visit to the school real. quick and then toasts to your fellow workers ok thank you very much it's lovely. great pleasure steve thank you for coming up after the break i speak to a story in michael fry a man who was made up of technical study of the course lying to scotland which is via a back and forward between the private and the public sectors. chose

seemed wrong. but old rules just don't. let me. get to shake out just because the ticket and in detroit equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. you know it's all about taking getting along with greatest ally friend russia there is you know a place to get to the kids and you know if you open it up there's other things in there so while we proceed here in the first half i'll just see what let's go.

four men are sitting in a car when the feds get shot in the head. four different versions of what happened one of them is on the death row there's no way you could have done it there's no possible way because the list did not shoot around a corner. welcome back now not everybody is in favor of renationalisation transfers sixty crisscrossing thinks that's a very bad idea this is what he has to say in the house of commons. mr speaker i don't know what i'm going to hear a lot today about nationalizing everything which is of course remembered with remembering we've heard today that the coast over enough was gold which compares with cost ninety billion pounds we've heard nothing about the cost of the

nationalizing the railways not just losing the product investment for you was the trumans but actually the billions of pounds will bring those trains back on to the public books so we remain committed through success over a private railway and night to get some further perspective alex is joined by historian and political commentator michael fry. michael welcome to the alex salmond show good to be here alex let's start on the discourse like because that is a real way which was a private hands then public hands then private hands public hands private hands and no back in public hands the site give us an insight to how best to run a real way i have to say that whoever hands it's been in that particular line has never made much of a profit and it's in fact it's often made the last simply because there's not that much commercial and industrial traffic up the east coast of great britain the only real really profitable long distance line in britain is there is

a line between london and glasgow simply because glasgow and clyde size in general was a producer of heavy goods of steel and ship and so on and they these are these kinds of activities attracted a lot of railway traffic and must have been true of these coastline but in recent years the east coast line seems to have been a success when it was in public hands then they went back into the pilots had almost been handed back to the public sector is that an insight there they even are a difficult line to run maybe better than the public said. well of course since privatisation in the in one nine hundred ninety there has been a tremendous increase in traffic on that line the only trouble is it hasn't produced profits for the railway companies involved. this is because i mean the railways are a means of long distance mass travel and so the prices really have to be kept low. otherwise people won't travel on them on the other hand prices really have to be

high in order to finance the investment for new technologies and various other improvements on the railways to keep those those rail railways running you know according to the latest the best standards available so we've had the paradox of an increase in traffic. amid deteriorate all your quite poor service and not earning enough for reinvestment are you saying that when it comes to real ways it's much easier to make money in short hole that is a long haul one i think that's absolutely true of the you know the long haul. railways which seem to work on the high speed rail ways as we see them in europe you know from going from germany to the channel ports or eastwood's to to warsaw in prague is an absolute pleasure. you have the high speeds high level of service and these railways are doing well but you're british quite

a small countries so it's in in terms of area so it's quite hard to find effective long term or long distance railway stretches which will make profit i think probably london's a glasgow would be a good one to try but unfortunately you know the british government's in their wisdom and not trying to read so they're trying only from london suburban which is bound to be a disaster but the good the good to get the glasgow sometime in the next century and a month or so they tell us but that's that here i am and i'm not sure railways are going to going to last that long because you just interest in one thing before we go on to the future of the way it's. been you know a well known privateer you know. by by the inclination to go on the right of center you believe in privatizing folks never think so and you're in favor of privatizing always well yeah i'm also being a right wing i'm also a pragmatist i'm not a dogmatists like many of the left so indeed i was in favor of all the

privatizations of the thatcher era and of course some of them you know telecoms ability huge success but railways have been a failure you know absolute privatisation of railway has been a complete disaster from beginning to end so what is about the railways that make it so difficult. to run in the private sector well because as i say because you cannot generate generate the revenue in order to keep up with technological improvements as you obviously can in telecoms i mean that slots you know in the old days use used to have to apply to the government for a telephone now you can just walk into a shop and buy the latest and you could get any color as long as i was glad. but really i don't like them railways are essentially victorian technology i mean they're on a par with the hot air balloon or the penny farthing bicycle that's sort of the government's investing perhaps fifty billion perhaps a lot more in this high speed rail which could take some table are you saying that

investing all of the capital or the technology which is essentially did well well again. the technology is outdated i think in the twenty first century railways will die and be replaced by new forms of transport how can you possibly say that when there's been one thing home almost a doubling of passenger numbers and in the last there and the service is woeful i mean do you know if you if you go even on some long distance services you'll have to stand all the way this is not so i think in the long run a standalone service which people are going to accept but we can't see her no wait for her to know a star trek transporter to take us with me to be in the meantime surely well fast real comfortable real is the best option but who's going to pay for it i mean there's no money to you can invest you know several several billions of pounds in a high speed service as the government would like to do from london's burning them there's no guarantee this is going to produce ninety percent of this so in the

relatively short term the four other means of your smart car so what of a smart electric car set up to be for the environment come into being how would you think the best thing could be done to run the real we right now there is no solution to this problem as i say. it's a legacy of the nineteenth century i do not believe if there is an easy way of running british railways at least in and efficient and profitable way with a guarantee of comfort for all passengers i don't believe this this concept is capable of realisation therefore we just have to jog along until the whole environment is changed by new means of transport with good of a speed to develop the fifty billion pound plus going into this fast rule from london to burgle and perhaps elsewhere to making the tunnel services more efficient

we're comfortable spaces with modern communications like wife i and chill for the child's life would be a fine thing chance of our in that scenario or what we're told that the railway at its best will provide us but it's still a very patchy performance and on the whole i would say the rail services in this country are still poor as anyone who's to travel one farmer who was will be able to tell you michael for you give us some trenchant views going back through history looking and some somewhat alarming future predictions where you regret the demise of the of the real it was a big mistake the other night mail crossing the border that sort of stuff one of the yes i used to love riding on the railways before they were ever privatizing at least in first class they they provided an absolutely excellent service with smooth clean women and their own silver cutlery and you can sit and have your or have your

morning bacon and eggs while the sun rose over the north sea and it was an absolutely delightful experience one of my was decisions of fuss mr scott was to order of the new sleeper kalitan which had just being about to be introduced at the present moment though could that recapture one aspect because the sleeper service. from london to scotland to london used to be a normal state you went up to play golf or in northern days for the shooting within less than the old days i usually. a nice thing that would make that aspect of travel with a proper cabin from sweet facilities no less could that mean a revival in the sleeper service yes i think so because that was a huge convenience also for people who are from scotland who had to do business in london and there's as you got as to send you off to sleep in edinburgh or glasgow you could order a dram or two from the carriage attendant. and then you would run gently through the months and a week refreshed in london so it is that level of service that are free

privatisation you know paradoxically killed privatisation was supposed to produce improvements in service and they did precisely the opposite michael the you say the railways are a thing of the past but look at the opening the borders lou railway and then the long stretch a lane which i think carries the over a million passengers sure that's been an outstanding success yes i'm not sure how much money it makes or. a new news for the boat as good news for the world as the brothers people are very happy although when they start getting new housing estates and lots of commuter traffic i'm not sure they're going to be remain so happy but and you know that line has particular drawbacks it doesn't go all the way through the strict cio of the it doesn't go from one side of the borders to the other it's all legal single track it could be make money as let's say going to scenic railway because it's an hour of doma from the law to station a scone waverley station in edinburgh many of the see that real with the world to shoot well aware you have to travel for long distances to get there and but yes

surely that could be the making money if yesterday and it is a scenic route because the rail itself runs on a higher level along that kind of tree top level so if you've been used to driving down that road the trees obscure thing but no the vistas open up so it's actually a very fine line i'm all in favor of it for them might be a future for the railways after all. if it is yes but you have to take each project seriously i mean there also been drug double tracked on that line and it also gone all the way from edwards a carlisle official hesitation you know the civil servant saying oh have you thought of this minister have you thought of that minister you know cautious pussyfooting investment is not the way to go and i have to ask you michael your best and admirable conducting this interview london how did you get down to london for the interviews were you in a plane are we on royal i was on the railway yes but this is because i'm a bit of a railway buff and i will always travel by railway unless it's absolutely unavoidable well let's not i surely got you here i can see that i'm sure they'll

get you back and in the meantime so you can celebrate and comfort your journey collectors that you with them examine quick i don't have to tell you that little bit as you know only scotch absolutely and of course they do. own the rivers of the moment they do serve scotch though i must say of a rather inferior blend well i expect you to pass that on your fellow passenger hospital he won't go very far out. there what michael thank you alex. what a way to run a railway and next week we turn to another hot issue fast rail or chess two is that the future of rail is an old solution to twenty first century problems the done that before it's even built we speak to the people and the community is at the sharp end of fast rail you're in europe you're your lady wife running at home i was there and there are only what did it mean to you when we boarded it was called the jolly gardens and my wife and i sadly lost one of our twins named bree louise back

in two thousand and three so we asked camden licensing if we could change the name of it and for free they granted is that permission and it's been the bring louise ever since it was more than just a business there's a huge emotional attachment you had and these premises are and it was a house and i own for fifteen years as well so the book can accumulate the worst are unbelievable honestly. so what are we laughing today about the real was first the proponents of the present twin track system and that's an ever diminishing band that is public ownership of infrastructure private operation the trains they say with some merit rail traffic is increasing faster than any other country in the world safety has improved and under the old british railways board the specter of dr beecham stop the land that was a long time ago another that is no problem getting people to use the trains the problem is squeezing them all into the trades the momentum for an integrated public

ownership model is no very strong but whatever happens is it too much to expect in the twenty first century britain we can work a system of how to make the trains run on time with seats for all the passengers. i know from time to me i know the whole excitement is good but i don't know. it was you know provision on my back when i wanted to. ask but i.

just i go hide oh i lost his boss because i just pop a good look at any of that but let me just quote obedient resources you know just like anybody on a month on those in person but that's honest i don't think there's been any of them . so i says you know what i was you're not. you're not just i mean my point is i'm already whatever sped up out of me just going to. the lord because they don't want to. give it up that's what i say i mean it really feels i just don't get it i'm getting letters but those were the oath they speeded to silence those people are going to respect i'm one of those but i would probably say just this but it was part of this i will ask him i want my family fussy equal credible but just but that's already yes it will be and he thought a good thing of it i think with you jim clemente katie yeah my roomie just got to go you.

now that i'm going to learn how to live there i'm not out of luck though that not a lot of the money out of the money that they're letting someone. else was a good time to. try to move there i'm doubting. not that i want to get my little money not why not they're going to our son or exxon and they'll we believe just a little bit here. we believe just a little bit here. a lot of my kids i don't want them up aside johnny boy are you

the moment i've got a mother having a little accuser is it a little i'm a little white community older let's pull out the things i don't want to put out as a mother's party without all the mother bludgeoning. the. woman who not me not a whit six writ. of i was from somewhere you know. i came back to the community. and people we are based on the you know the road look at me or look at us or iraq going towards him. like. you. see.

she's going. to see military there because all the. girls. i know we all want to this. does the fact that doesn't last i don't know talk to me in my life. i soon have to die. a.

capable producing chemical weapon syria's u.n. envoy gives a warning about extremists in the country russia's fear of a false flag attack is brushed aside in washington. another false flag attack is being prepared to try and hinder the empty chair operation in egypt we're going to see you know for when you try to play the blame to try to put the onus on other groups and we don't buy into that. for instance president outrage among the countries opposition figures after a man who almost crawled pulls his own citizen citizens french calls for resisting his economic reforms. a video of a young palestinian girl scaling and it's really built to get home in the west bank goes viral we speak to the activists who filmed the incident.