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on this week's show when i say artificial intelligence you think robots but now ai technology can spare the lives of animals who would otherwise die in laboratory tests but first the controversy over vaccines are they safe and what about claims that they lead to autism i'm holland cook in washington this is the big picture on r.t. america. as a new school year begins some parents fear that unfasten aged children could spread

diseases including measles whooping cough and h.p.v. to their kids eighteen states allow parents not to vaccinate their children on the basis of philosophical beliefs among the more widespread that vaccines can cause autism fact or urban myth let's ask dr sherri tenpenny she is an osteopathic physician an anti vaccination activist who has authored four books among them vaccines the risks the benefits the choices a resource guide for parents she supports the belief that some vaccines can cause autism and dr tenpenny joins us from cleveland welcome. thank you so much talent thank you for having me every year my doctor tells me they get a flu shot and he assures me that it won't give me the flu and it hasn't yet but could it be giving me something else. well the flu shot has three strains of viruses in it in every multi dose flu shot has twenty five micrograms of mercury

there's no way of knowing one hundred percent for sure that one hundred percent of those billions of viruses are completely attenuated and i actually looked at the data over the last nineteen years from the c.d.c. and it shows that eighty five percent of illness in the wintertime is caused by a pathogen a virus or a bacteria other than an influenza virus so the influenza vaccines the flu that flu shots are only intended to prevent you from getting sick from an influenza virus which means you can get a flu shot and still get sick from some other pathogen eighty five percent of the time and the flu shot as i understand it is an educated guess that they have to make way in advance of the actual epidemic. that's correct they choose three viruses that were the most prevalent in southeast asia last year and they assume that do be due to international circulation and the air currents that those three viruses will come to the united states and then they have to pick

a virus that grows well in eggs and if it doesn't grow well in eggs that that strain doesn't grow well in a eggs they mix them together to find a different strain that will grow in eggs so it's a it's a bit of a guess they call it they even the c.d.c. calls it an educated guess as i have been reading up on this my layman's understanding is that the term safe and effective relies on assumptions and that the terms of vaccination and immunization are not synonymous so i got all that right. you've got that all right. when the babies are born they are routinely given various vaccinations is a too much too soon. it's very much too soon in fact now we are giving vaccines to pregnant women we're giving up our tussles fact seen and influenza vaccine to pregnant women and so now that babies are being exposed to things in utero and at the time of birth they are given as a b. vaccine usually within our minutes to hours of birth now the hepatitis b.

virus really is only spread in adults that share needles or that have hepatitis b. that share toothbrushes or that may be. homosexuals that don't use protection so it's not anything that's going to show up in the baby unless perhaps the mother is positive for hepatitis b. they get we will give that hepatitis b. vaccine at birth and there's a little system ready for all the stuff it wants to know and i don't think the little system is really ready for the six vaccines that they get two months of age either because at that point in time you know a baby is only sixty days old on the planet at that point they will get one or they will get a hepatitis b. vaccine simple ns a b. they'll get a polio they'll get additional vaccines at that point in time and i think that it's a whole lot of vaccines and a whole lot of chemicals at that time i mean by the time a baby is six months of age it will have had upwards to thirty seven vaccines given

about five over five hundred micrograms of mercury if they began the flu shot at six months of age and almost five thousand micrograms of aluminum injected into a little body by the time their one year of age return is a mercury i went to the link between vaccines and autism has been a big controversy what's your take on that. there are many articles now that have been published that show the link between vaccines and autism they may not call it autism they may call it in south. lapa theater and satellite is are various types of brain injury but there have actually been awarded large compensations to the national vaccine injury compensation program for children with brain injuries from vaccines now autism in my opinion is like the worst case scenario it's down a very long spectrum of potential illnesses that can be caused by vaccines things other other types of illnesses can include asthma allergies eg some. a long list of

neurological problems and a long list of auto immune conditions all of those published in the medical general in the medical literature in fact there's even a textbook that's been that's been written that's called. auto immunity and vaccines so we know that there are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of articles in the mainstream medical journal that are talking about problems with that scene's in fact i have a personal collection of more than ten thousand articles that i've collected over the last five years that show the problems associated with vaccination dr sherry tenpenny thank you very much for your time and for the work you do. thank you so much for having me. now we welcome robert f. kennedy jr author activist and attorney who joins us from san francisco and just so our viewers are aware you're not strictly anti vaccination i'm told you've had all sorts of your children vaccinated what is the most important thing you would like to change about the way we minister of vaccines to children in america. the problem

is the vaccinations that are currently on the schedule are not safety tested oh the f.d.a. has given an exemption to vaccine manufacturers that manufacturers allow them to bring vaccines to market without doing placebo testing our safety testing really almost any safety testing for example that to have a tight as b. vaccinations or say if you tested for only four days i means of the baby died on the fifth day it didn't happen if the baby gets a seizure on day six it never happened if he gets autism three years later or. or food allergies or. other or disease stuff that doesn't show up for two or three years there is no way of the thing that after the vaccine is licensed there is no c.d.c.

takes the position that double blind randomized placebo thing should be illegal it's unethical afterwards so in other words there's no safety testing of our vaccines and there's virtually no monitoring the c.d.c. has a monitoring system called the vaccine adverse events reporting system by it's on a measure and it only captures about one percent and of the vaccine injury so that's completely unacceptable we ought to be evidence say this facts again is actually solving our problems that it's causing and there's virtually no vaccine that we can look at that is on the schedule today. sixty nine shots at every american child now receives there's none of those that anybody can say it is likely to do to do it. more diseases and it's going to cause so it's actually easier to bring a new pill to the market than a vaccine. while now it's much easier to bring a vax and

a new pill you have to do typically if you want to bring like vioxx to market you have to pay you have to do double blind placebo testing which is the gold standard for drug testing and every vaccine ought to go through it and the way they do it is they take essentially five ten thousand people and they give them the pill ten thousand people and they give them an identical pill but it's inert and they're double blind sonny the research or the people who receive that bill know who got what and then you look at how the outcomes over a five year period because many of you have to look at it for a long time because many of the injury that you can receive from medication an experimental red medication and maybe have a long latency period so you won't see them for a while they won't be diagnosed for two or three years oh and that's what virtually

every drug to the market in america has to do vaccines the only ones that vaccines are tested for example the m.m.r. vaccine that's currently being used was never safety tested you can go look at anybody who doubts. can go look at the manufacturers insert which is on the internet and you'll see there's never been a safety data there's no there was only for the polio vaccine only a forty eight hour safety test appetite is four days for one five the other current h.p.v. vaccine which is causing all kinds of problems making girls killing girls make them very sick permanently debilitating. is the only test it has one has for thirty days and another for six months and he won't see a lot of these auto immune diseases for a long time after that furthermore they don't use placebos. oh if you look at the

the two groups that they tested for the h.p.v. vaccine and there were ten thousand girls who got the vaccine ten thousand girls who got the aluminum advantage it is in the vaccine which everybody believes is the is the component the vaccine that's making people. and if you look it says on the manufacturers and certainly and the but you can look this up on the internet. it says that two point three percent of the girls in each group within six months and come down with auto immune disease or who would do that who would ever take a drug if it was a two to three percent chance of you getting a permanently debilitating disease particularly. promises to cure or a problem that only you know what injures want out of every hundred thousand people it's it makes sense whatsoever and we ought to have real to have. with placebos

true placebos and we ought to have a long term you know double blind placebo test vaccine the same as we do every other drug at the dawn of the trump administration there was talk of appointing you to a commission on vaccine safety and scientific integrity but nothing came of it what happened well i think they you know i think they chickened out. i think that big pharma got in there and you know and to the people or to president trump and the people who surround them and you know it's not surprising if you look at the environmental policy is that the administration they've all been added over to and astray and i think he did the same thing with the pharmaceutical robert kennedy thank you not only for your time tonight but for the work you do. also thank you for having me.

mood. would not be enough it would suit rich. people as a way of all's from some guy who owns. i came back to the community. and people we all be astounded you know the road look out for me oh look out is over i will go towards him. just. the right. says. she's going to. receive money doesn't that give us all that.

but if you don't. know we're going to this. up close the cut costs also i am not touching me in my life. i see moms have to die. but politicians do something. to put themselves on the line to get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president or injury. or somehow want to be preached. to the right to be for us that's what i'm up for freedom or can't be good that i'm interested always in the waters in the. first city. john mccain and his republican cohorts like the bush family and others they will break cozy with ken lay to finance the bush campaigns of the bush presidency and

when they got caught committing massive fraud on the same scale as the savings and loan crisis the machinery was already in place thanks to john mccain as a bag man for wall street for decades yeah to bail those guys out and make them all at the expense of the democracy slash economy of the united states which is disintegrating. if i say artificial intelligence and you think the jetsons your late if i say alexa and you're smart speaker just answered you're already using what's nonchalantly called a i to access so called big data now if i say medical testing

and you picture people in lab coats injecting rats that could happen less thanks to artificial intelligence how let's ask dr john pippen director of academic affairs for the physicians committee for responsible medicine it's a nationwide organization that promotes preventive medicine and addresses controversies in modern medicine including ethical and scientific issues and education and research dr joins us from dallas welcome to the big picture. thank you for asking i'm glad to be here dr pepper and you have spoken out about how misleading animal experiment results contributed to the approval of dangerous drugs like vioxx what are the problems inherent and using animals to test drugs on humans. the major problems relate to

genetics and evolution no species is able to predict what will happen under similar circumstances in another species because not only are the genes different but more importantly the regulation of the genes is different for instance we have the gene that codes for a tail in mice but we don't have a tail because the gene is not expressed those differences among species are what we call immutable meeting they cannot be changed and for this reason results we get from any animal other than the human animal are not reliably applicable to us i suspect people who are watching tonight are going to be quoting you all weekend i had no idea i had a tail gene in me how does artificial intelligence enter into predicting how what's being tested is safe. artificial intelligence

creates computer systems that have an enormous amount of data what you call big data moment ago and these systems have so much data and organize it in such a way that they are able actually to learn from the data much in the way that a human would learn from the data and to use that information to predict what will be found in new information for instance for toxicology testing for chemicals by accumulating a huge database and learning from that database you can then. introduce a new chemical and be able to predict what the safety level and what the specific toxicities of that chemical might be we hear lots of about animal cloning to produce animals for the purpose of testing is it necessary to the testing process

to create identical embryos or even fully developed twins like cloned rats or even monkeys. no it's not only not essential it doesn't really change the underlying problem which is the application of data derived from non-human animals to the human animal you're aware i know that shanghai researchers not too long ago developed a method for cloning monkeys and i think they now have six of those monkeys and the idea is to give a consistent animal model to study human disease questions the problem is that it's not a human it's so monkey and no matter how many of them you have who are genetically identical you can't reach say gap between animals and humans so is part of the

rationale for cloning a critter suppose you made triplets that they could test drug a on one of them drug be on the other and placebo on the third is that part of the thinking. it may be part of the thinking but is nonsense we we know that even for human twins what we call monozygotic twins. genetically identical brothers or sisters the effects of drugs and chemicals and the expression of the genes they have are different. for instance as they age they may have different susceptibilities to diseases they could respond to drugs differently one may be allergic to penicillin while the other may get a good therapeutic effect from penicillin and that has to do not with the genes which are identical but with the expression of the genes so the answer your question is no it would not help to do that. in animals it would help

more to do it in people but we have to understand even among genetically identical humans there are going to be some differences that's remarkable because i'm told that identical twins have the same fingerprints on everything but that's pretty much where it ends according to what you're saying is that as life goes on they become different people right. well when they're born actually they're different people we call them identical twins because they have the same genes. but there is so much more going on than just having the same genes the so-called epi genetic factors which involve r.n.a. rather than d.n.a. turn those genes on or they turn them off or they turn them down so that they're they have less of an effect and that is individual specific it's not. related to the genetic identity it's related to the outside the gene

identity so yes your conclusion is right the phrase big data implies a large sample size so beyond the humane motives meaning less torturing and killing of animals in many cases animals bred to die in this way there's a mathematical motive for applying artificial intelligence meaning quantity of data equals quality of conclusion correct. to some extent yes there are some limitations but for instance the toxicological artificial intelligence system developed by the johns hopkins researchers in dr thomas heartens lab. took advantage of the european union reach registration system which requires the testing and registration of all chemicals in the european union produced in more than one ton of volume per year they took ten years of those data ten thousand chemicals they

link them to eight hundred thousand laboratory studies reporting on those chemicals and they were able to create these enormous maps of where these chemicals fall in terms of their safety or specific adverse effects and by learning from this what the artificial intelligence system can do is take a new chemical plug it in put it on the map where it belongs relative to other chemicals and thereby predict whether it's going to be safe or whether it's going to be toxic for the liver or toxic for the heart rhythm or toxic for the nervous system dr john pippen from the physicians committee for responsible medicine thank you not only for your time tonight but for the work you do. well thank you we were fortunate in that while the ethical argument is very strong and we're all

driven by the science supports it the science doesn't support the use of animals for these purposes and artificial intelligence networks are just one more step toward getting rid of the use of animals very good i appreciate your time tonight doc thank you you thank. and that is the big picture if you missed any part of this week's show or if you want to share it you can where you'll find all our shows at youtube dot com slash the big picture r t m holland cook in washington back next week and tweeting in the meantime at holland cook so let's hear what you would like to see in the big picture question more.

in a world of big partisan movie lot and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that made stream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door on the fast and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. a parting of ways european leaders talk of a future without the u.s. what is in store for the transatlantic alliance and much much more on this edition of crossfire. pranking gave americans a lot of new job opportunities i needed to come up here to make some money i could make twenty five thousand dollars as a teacher or i could make fifty thousand dollars

a year good truck so i chose to drive truck people rush to a small town in north dakota was an unemployment rate of zero percent like gold rush is very very similar to a gold rush but this beautiful story ended with pollution and devastation a lot of people have left here i don't know too many people here in the slowdown so much they lost their jobs that laid off the american dream is changing that's not what it used to be. and that's a tough reality to deal with. you . guys are this is the kaiser report the show that goes further and. they you know it's now

like a week later after senator john mccain has passed away and i think it's time now to review some of the stories that were set in motion some of the major macro economic events that started. from his time when he first came to power back and you know after he was a release from prisoner of war camp in one nine hundred seventy three from vietnam up till today when he was first in office early in the eighty's we had the keating five so i want to remind people about that and how that still has impact today because the keating five were five u.s. senators accused of corruption in one nine hundred eighty nine igniting a major political scandals part of the larger savings and loan crisis of the late one nine hundred eighty s. and early one nine hundred ninety s. now senator john mccain was one of the five senators he was the only republican the

others were all democrats. senator john mccain was ultimately cleared but the fact is that he apparently well he did meet with a federal home loan bank board the f.h.a. l b b in the night in one thousand nine hundred seven to intervene on behalf of charles keating who at that time was the largest of the savings and loans banks and was clearly very corrupt and in fact had basically encouraged a lot of his pensioner and older people depositors that he had convinced them to buy all these bonds of put those bonds into the parent company of lincoln savings and they lost hundreds of millions alternately but he went to his very good friend senator john mccain went to. he also by the way paid for him to go on many vacations john mccain and his wife and this guy charles keating basically convince them to go talk to the regulators and get them off their back so it was only until

he successfully got them off their back for two years and the bank then collapsed two years later and almost took down the us economy in the global economy but this is the sort of pattern that we see around the world and i know keating five of the savings and loan crisis very well of course i was working on wall street at the time and here's the most amazing thing about the estonia crisis of that period is that in response to that crisis and this was when people were gaming the system of federal deposit insurance to steal money essentially the response by law makers was to make that particular type of crime that was illegal and over fifteen hundred people went to jail bankers went to jail as a result of the inquiry that after the savings and loan crisis they changed the laws so that that type of lawbreaking was made legal and it set the stage for the two thousand and eight subprime crisis sub prime crisis of two thousand and eight was a repeat of the savings and loan crisis.