was and is for russia russia is paying it a great cost for the kind of decisions and made in the ukrainian conflict there is also believed that the rapture how to prevent a march bigger conflict between russia and nato that if russia didn't act. moment back in two thousand and fourteen that the nature would continue pushing across its border and there would be no other way to escape that direct confrontation how much do you crave at that oh very much so i mean there was a sort of a rehearsal for crimea some years before in georgia of course when under a lot of american encouragement of the saakashvili government but very provocatively towards russia in a couple of if nick pups of georgia in a year and i think i forget the name of that number one the current dutch and russia drew a line that russia moved in with support for the local local governments local

affiliate groups and drew a line that was a dress rehearsal if you like. ukraine became the real thing because for many years before the the overthrow of the in the case which government for many years before two thousand and fourteen there was all kinds of encouragement being given to nationalistic elements in the crowd and the russian element by the united states and by certain european countries do you think they actually understood the seriousness of encouraging those kind of forces and the kind of reaction that they may provoke in russia where they understood and simply didn't care i think the latter i think they didn't care i think it was you know whatever we can do to encourage the build up of anti russian opinion in ukraine is worth doing whatever the risks because ukraine so important strategically so important economically and if we can prise it away from the russian world to the nato world it would be worth

spilling some china breaking some china and spilling lissac on the way so i think they underestimated the seriousness of the nazi elements new crown. and russia had to draw a line somewhere in ukraine as if you truly are in georgia what have they done and if that they've helped a very small part of ukraine i mean. it's been done it pretty small amount of territory what five percent of ukraine they they've helped crimea carry out an act of free self-determination and. they did it under enormous provocation if they hadn't been in the mud square coup d'etat they would not have been the warden at least mr kim and i could argue that the west did similar things in other countries but as western officials would reply to that there is no moral equivalency anyway we have to take a short break now but we'll be back in just a few moments stay tuned.

i've been saying the numbers mean something they matter the u.s. has over one trillion dollars in debt more than ten white collar crime stamping each day. eighty five percent of the global wealth he longs to be all for rich eight point six percent market saw thirty percent just last year some with four hundred to five hundred per second per second and get cornrows to twenty thousand dollars. china's two point one billion dollars a i industrial but don't let the numbers overwhelm. the only number you need to remember is one one just shows you can't afford to miss the one and only.

join me every thursday on the alex simon show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics small business i'm show business i'll see that. parents are going to learn how to not better manage to look good at the. head of the matter the money the deal with management. this was a good time to. try to move. that up wasn't you know how to run. or not they're going to suck for x.

chanting of the old people we believe to be here. all of my kids i don't want the bubble so johnny volatile the moment a column about how do it all accusers are there water on a moon i could not build a little of the things i don't want to put out a lot more of them with a blow to. welcome back to worlds apart with tony cabin a former diplomat in russia and the author of a book called return to moscow. mr cameron what. we started discussing your crane before the break the break and there was definitely a genuine aliment in that uprising people wanted some change positive change they

wanted to they on to incur to corruption the they wanted a more fair more representative a more transparent government and all of those. calls you can hear in russia these days changes also have pretty popular world in this country but i think russia's relationship with changes is interesting because us. pedestal leap and the former prime minister of the imperial russia once said everything changes in russia in ten years and nothing in two hundred i wonder what are some of those changes and known changes that struck you when you came back to this country after their long break well obviously we're talking about since the cold war years when i worked here forty six years ago it's a very different country now totally different in terms of material living standards in terms of the the the members of the people the old rudeness and roughness i remember about russia wrist maybe it was

a full picture even then but i certainly felt it and i don't feel it were told i feel russians were very well managed people know what are the changes i think there's much greater self-confidence in russia today. and i think it's growing because i think russia has learnt in the last few years particularly since you cried and since that experience since syria. russia that. the west when it criticizes russia is not big but they haven't. basically tried to undermine russian full steam and i think russia has looked at us we have our own problems we have our own disputes we have to deal with for example gender equality we have to deal with the way we treat option the really really old. particularly the way we treat homosexuals because i think for homosexuals it is still very biggest news about being russian and it shouldn't be that way but it's not my place and it's not the west good place to lecture russia about these things well i know

you're very reluctant to criticize russia openly but you just mentioned this attitude towards the community and if you actually look at the polls you will see that russians by and large. homophobic they for example if you ask people do you mind homosexual couple living in the apartment next door to you they would usually say the majority would say no i don't care and yet in the political. environment these days you hear a lot about the traditional values the patriarchy and so on and so forth where in fact i would argue they have realistically no place in the russian society this is a society that is. empowered by strong women that we have lots of single mother families you know women taking care of the entire families women tend to be i think in other countries too more tolerant towards people who are different so i

wonder if you perhaps would go as far as to say that the russian elites are exploiting exploiting some of the things and perhaps fostering some of the negative attitudes dead actually do not have that deep of a root in the russian culture not enough about russia to your question but i'm very interested in what you say i can only say that just recently in australia we've had an extremely controversial. new law passed in december which we called the marriage equality law which for the first time a lot of sexual couples to marry it was very difficult to get that passed because our political elites were much more conservative than the population it was clear that the population wanted it but certain powerful politicians in the parliament did the very best to impede it what i did find if i may extend the question a little is. probably of jewish origin about how far is catholic can huff be

a nice jewish boy but dissent. i'd expected had to agree that the semitism in russia. didn't encounter it and i was enormously impressed with the jewish museum. i found its presentation of the jewish contribution to russian history and culture right through the years since russia conquered potent in the jewish population of poland and below russia became russian citizens that whole story was fascinating i left that museum with a spirit of uplift because i folk this museum shows that russia and its row getting on the path of decent mutually respectful relationship. issues a respectful relationship between russia and israel is not a problem i think they are now a little bit concerned that the personal relationship between putin and benjamin netanyahu is endangering the anyhow east peace process because everybody's so

accommodating towards israel but rather than going into international affairs i want to ask you know specifically about logic and putin has been in power of on and off for eighteen years and you just recently speaking at one of the conferences here in russia you said that you wish and his foreign minister sergey lavrov along political careers the world needs that was demand moderation even if that's your genuine sailing donte think you know the long stay in power i'm a in danger of russia in the long run because. the power transition is inevitable one day we all of those leave this world and. having one leader even their very popular leader in power for so long don't you think that it will make russia vulnerable more vulnerable when time comes to hand over the keys to the kremlin to somebody else i see what you're getting at and i think you're worried about some sort of personality cult developing around putin especially in the western press by

the way not so much in russia but i think also in the western press because much of the western coverage about russia is about putin that's right we we personalize everything and when i gave a lecture in perth i don't know whether it's you know on my website i've got that lecture and i've got the photographs that i put up during the lecture one of them in particular is a pair of photographs the there's an ordinary tasks or something new this picture of putin's sitting in this disc of his head and shoulders and the next picture is the famous cover of the economist which portrayed put in as a devil it's a photoshop image of exactly that same picture so we we demonize putin and mr cameron i am sorry for indigestion i think it's safe to say but both of us have a. fairly neutral if not positive attitude towards putin and what he has done for this country but. that none of us standing my question still stands don't you think

that. you know he too has to think about what russia yeah will be after he's gone absolutely and i think and i talk about this in my book in the chapter about suicide oh i think he's trying to leave. a positive legacy of ideas the idea of the russian wilderness can mirror the idea of. civil is that he is actually trying to leave a legacy of a multicultural russia a russia of many of the cities not just to the docks russia. certainly proper respect for orthodoxy has in england this respect for the anglican church but not notice the periodicity of both the docs for other religions and i think he's trying to leave a legacy of multiculturalism and i talk about that quite a lot. he's trying to leave you know as sort out this question. what is the russian motherland if you're not if you know off the docks what is the

road enough to you and he's trying to help broaden that concept we have to do this in australia too because when i was young australia was basically what i think was sex and now we think we're well on the way to being a genuinely multicultural country and in that respect i think russia and australia have a lot in common already older as you point out in your book many commonalities between russia and australia being the outsiders being territorially expansive countries perhaps sometimes struggling to defined who they are but i want to bring you back to the question of logic of putin's and sergey lavrov along political careers because there is now a rumor in moscow that sergey lavrov for example the foreign minister asked for his retirement several times because as much as he i assume loves his job it is quite tiring there was also speculation that put in wasn't planning on the calming back to power or running for presidency again in two thousand and twelve but the events

in libya and the murder of moammar gadhafi the disintegration of libya afterwards made him change his mind i wonder to what extent and western policies are responsible for keeping those perhaps not fully appreciated individuals in power for so long well those two room as you mentioned. may be a conspiracy theorist but i suspect the origins of some of those rumors think this is all part of trying to make russia feel weak about sophie. and the information war it's ruthless and an ongoing thing against against russian stability but let me come back. put in a lover of what what makes them special i remember even when i was forty seven years ago and certainly in most subsequent twenty five years as a diplomat the smartest people in russian embassies were almost the kind of people now it's no accident that a young ambitious intelligent man like putin growing up in leningrad in fairly

tough circumstances looking at his career opportunities just will join the k.g.b. there's nothing sinister about this it was the most cagey business there's a people see if that's what. it was where ambitious people would would gravitate and so it's a mark of it's an ability that he was promoted so quickly in the k.g.b. and finished up in east germany to the time of the which i just left it off for a friend of mine was a fellow diplomat of lover of the united nations. thirty five forty years ago they worked together in a committee he said was super bright and. super organized just a superb professional diplomat you can see that no leverage gives a media conference without notes and he just talks about every issue you want of us and gets right gets the language exactly right we had running out of time here and i want to ask quiz and one more question there is a presumption in the west that if putin of were not in the kremlin that russian

policy somehow would have been different that russia would be such a big star and in the side of the west and i get it from your book. you really chide she showed that russia's decisions recent decisions they comply with certain historical logic that there is certain continuity to decision making in russia if it wasn't put in let's say for alexina vallone comes to power at this year or next year do you think the west should expect a dramatically different foreign policy line from russia i don't think there's any chance of developing coming to anybody else i mean any other lady if rigs. later of the communist party kind of power or it's. the daughter of a totally stopped shot came to power i don't think that the huge difference is because as you've said there is a professionalism at the competence about the russian administrative class which which would continue mr cameron we have to leave it there thank you very much for your time and to our viewers please keep the conversation going on our social media

pages and i hope to see you again same place same time here on of also part. of. you know you're not my point i wanted to. ask but i. just lost his boss because i just you know got to be just part of the media resources you know just anybody among my fellow those in prison but the best honest

i don't mean just any of the. choices you know but i was you know i got you know just i mean my most important i'm already but it was sped up out of me just a lot of the media and even i mean it was time. to set up and i must admit that he was i just don't get it or something similar but those. people are going to respect i'm one of those but i was just. my buddy and we could have had a bomb but you just don't think that already has a question he thought of getting up there calling quincy just implementing my thought out loud problem you just got to go he. was

on the phone. i'm. going. to believe that you know that if i didn't get it was. weeks because stories from oxy serious last rebel and terrorist stronghold that surrounded what could be the final showdown in the country's devastating war plus. funding clashes. between anti migrant protesters and counter rallies in germany see eleven people injured and multiple arrests in a. right wing and euro skeptic parties gain momentum in sweden headed next sunday's general election amid a spate of arson attacks we visit a district in the capital that's being branded a no go. by

there ten am sunday morning the second of september we're bringing you some of the biggest stories as a reporter right here past seven days all parties in the syrian conflict have been accusing each other of trying to escalate the situation this week and with the looming battle for which is the last stronghold of islamic terrorists washington's threatening damascus with new airstrikes in turn russia's warned over a potential false flag chemical attack designed to trigger a foreign intervention. syrian armed forces have no chemical weapons and no plans to use them there is no military necessity for. the russians to assert that the syrians have chemical weapons sensible people will not be used militarily use this means to draw the fire of three powerful countries upon themselves the russians are claiming and this one another group stockpiling chemical weapons and

planning an attack and you know i think that's more false flag or any time you know because it's enough for when you try to play the blame they try to put the onus on other groups and we don't buy into. the chemical weapons provocation which is being prepared this is aimed at keeping all nuestra that we believe these egotistical unilateral political games counterproductive. to this stage is set for a final and it looks like a bloody battle the battle for tens of thousands of islamists rebels from all over syria and the world against the syrian army and its allies no wonder that the stakes here are like never before i q's ations provocation and chemical scandal it's not an even fight the syrian army is stronger which means geologists need all the help they can get from abroad.

following the alleged go to chemical attack russia's warning that rebels will try to stage as similar incident in egypt to draw the u.s. france and britain in. happened to hit a sad again russia says an incident is imminent especially after the u.s. and the allies jointly stated that they would act if it looks like as had launched another chemical attack that's almost an invitation to do so says moscow. now when the u.s. is steering the situation around we want to know how can damascus have chemical

weapons if the u.s. france and great britain destroyed them last year you know what the us and says we never said that france did the chemical weapons provocation which is being prepared is aimed at keeping al nasra they're counting on using it against the so-called regime as they call it it's do or dive for the g hardest rebels nowhere left to run nothing left to lose and their sponsors the west the gulf which have pumped billions upon billions of dollars into a cause that's on its last legs the mascot's and moscow are trying to work out a deal to reduce perhaps avoid the bloodshed but the job for it syria russia adamant the swamp of terror and zealotry has no future. this is the last place for the terrorists so from all points of view this abscess should be removed of course what everybody's fearful of is escalation given the

u.s. russian military buildup in the region everyone has a gun pointed at each other and given that this is it the final act of the syrian war the urge to shoot might just be overwhelming. the united states doesn't believe that the rebels have that capability whereas there is tremendous documentation to show that they do have the capability they've probably been storing it for months if not years in the province and they have used it in the past they have that capability and it is a last ditch hold for them so it cannot be ruled out and it's not it's not beyond the realm of possibility that the u.s. is trying to get assad out they're going to continue trying and and even though donald trump wants to. get the u.s.

out of syria there are elements within the u.s. government that don't want that to happen with a decisive battle in italy imminent civilians are fleeing to safer territory. and i asked him then why did they get militants were holding and since hostages that he was called in are counting marines who are intensely close and some of this humanitarian courage will is an association in the. beginning i am from even the conditions were dire that the militants don't let anyone go we escaped with just the clothes on our backs. a former

trump advisor an award winning war correspondent britain's opposition leader and a rock star on the face of it you wouldn't think they had that much in common would you but nevertheless they've all ended up on a list dubbed the saddest as he goes down of explained. labeling people as in fashion has been for the past couple of years in fact populist mainstream deplorable or when it comes to syria and a scientist like a sadist to but it also supports the syrian president at least that seems to be the logic behind an index of names recently claude together i chose primarily this term rather than the narrower term pro assad because some of the public figures in this list explicitly denied being pro assad but still persistently repeat coraline's of regime propaganda narratives steve baron and glenn greenwald boris johnson norm chomsky let's say the chances of coming across any other list banding these people together are slim you published an article full of lies because you're too lazy and

or malicious to care that you're doing it i never defended the sad regime in my life in fact the author was quite meticulous coming up with a ten point quote unquote scale of a side ism and having read through those i figured that maybe i should offer my young bill assistance in completing this list as by no means does it look finished take this point implying the west has somehow supported al nusra or isis i think we're back in people we have no idea who they are the rebels we call of the rebels the patriotic rebels we have no idea lot of people think you know that they are isis how about expanding it with the whole staff of the u.s. state department and they denied entry to the leader of the white helmets over security concerns and after all being mean to them is a capital offense to any individual in any group. suspected of. ties or relations with extremist groups or that we had believed to be

a security threat to united states we would act accordingly but as for those who are already on the list we've interviewed a couple of them documenters is ridiculous in many ways but it's also deeply. what england concerning it is part of a witch hunt against people who don't accept the government line on military intervention in the middle east supporters based on no facts whatsoever. really. takes no account whatsoever of my actual views on so what we're looking at here just with this blacklist is something published by someone who we had never heard of before totally obscure figure this is just like comical level of research and it's being promoted by the same people who have been not only promoting western intervention in syria but who have been dedicated for the past two years to attacking and smearing anyone who gets in their way now. to chew

part of the way that most people get their news and they use those the. social media in on or in order to educate themselves will find out what's going on off but it's being it is being the content is being censored by the corporations. so so so it it won't be free and it's not free now but it's and there they are targeting i wouldn't be surprised if i disappear because i'm anti war the author of the list was a bit of a nobody before giving man birth to his catalogue but as its popularity swells let the public shaming comments. such as in the german city of canada between anti migrant protesters and rival groups of left eleven p. .