thing so far so of course it's not true so no actually this episode tiny episode gives us some idea like we'll disagreements between the russian turkey on that one of our colleagues here in moscow suggested that this was a good call bad call protean played out by a putin an error though on two on one hand montagne the credibility of the opposition and on the other hand to bide are they on a little bit more time the question is why would turkey need more time in a bleep and is there any credible opposition left in the province because from the kremlin's perspective everybody who wanted to reconcile with either syria or russia have already done that in other provinces the only people left in the diehards. so with the second point i mean depends on who you are and how we treat and how we define core the moderate opposition and one of. the moderation of the opposition it's about whether or not these people are ready to talk and from what i understand

there have been several statements by their leaders militant leaders on the ground that i know it's very easy to negotiate they want to as as i said die hard i mean doing this are in conflict we always and every stage and in every year we saw such groups and from his perspective. ninety five percent of those groups are not inclined to negotiate and took her to pursue political process so. i think it would not matter for talk about the summit what matters here is russia turkish relations and their partnership. in the first place russia understands that for turkey it's one of the most important parts and it can't just push it and impose its own wheel on on its partner well i was partially both agree and disagree with you because i do think their relationship with turkey eric

strongly is extremely important and we will talk more about that but i also think russia genuinely. cares about what happens to the people of that province and i think this is one of valuable thing that we got out of the summit a very explicit declaration by all the three leaders that they will try to take a lot of care in trying to protect the civilian lives and we are talking about more than three million people living there but from what i understand it doesn't mean that russia syria or iran for that matter would refrain from narrow strikes aimed at the militants infrastructure is it possible to separate the two to go off to the terrorists and fully spare the civilians i think september fourth it was the first series of airstrikes in the weeks. so when they targeted. targets outside of populated areas so and in fact after that we didn't hear much of a position from the western side and from what i think one of the things that many

observers note about the the province is that it's very densely populated and one of the tactics by terrorism is to sensually mingle going to it when the russians or the syrians try to spare the civilian lives as much as possible i think the i would assume that the terrorists would try a quite the opposite you know. historically during the war we saw that human shields are used to know almost in every. serious case and. in ghouta so that was plenty of such cases and of course i mean during the civil war and during the oppressions it's almost impossible to avoid collateral damage as it is called and. russian the first place and partners they also took is of although all want to minimize possible casualties among civilians and also among those i mean among the militants because that would actually. increase another

refugee flow which would go where so it's turkish borders exactly now social media especially western and turkish a social media failed with a search and that. brushed aside a request for cease far in terms of pleas backing it formally but i think practically speaking russia has no other choice but to accommodate turkey and that request specifically in order to prevent this massive exodus of the civilians do you think does large scale assault in the belief was ever on the cards let's put it this way the assault is on the table that's for sure but the degree and the character of this assault is still to be defined so basically that what was one of the reasons of the summit gathering so the three parties aimed to decide what limits will have this would have but as we see i mean they postponed the assault

that's one important outcome and secondly i mean it's not out of agenda completely it's still on the table and those before strikes in this. gathering of syrian military on the border of the province also confirms that almost all preparations for possible offenses a complete now i think you would agree of of may have. or that russia is after in italy is not just a military victory it wants to use the military victory as a transition to a full scale of revival and rebuilding of syria which would involve the return of the refugees hopefully the return of the international investors to haue bin reckons traction don't you think it's a little bit naive on the part of moscow to believe that if it plays in good faith in the comedy aids or try to accommodate everybody that you know everybody else really respond in kind and we'll actually allow if let alone assist the full scale rebuilding of that country. there is no reason to believe that they will happen

exactly how we describe because during the three previous cases with three other days questions owns and worked quite opposite the quiet harsh offensive partnered with talks and striking deals and perspicacious of. rebels. but anyways it was a very harsh narrative here in the position this is quite different here turkey is involved and turkey is quite important partner and also have invested heavily in its own supported groups in syria north and it also has another objective syrian kurds and to follow up on that. agree it's nice to believe but i would also say that it is naive to believe that. basically dealing with it lip will help to finalize or you know get back refugees or attract you know investments foreign

investments that let me ask you about the sort of the language that the leaders employ because president aired though on the tough cookie that he is usually very blunt in laying out his argument and during this meeting in. the future called peroration to russia and turkey depend on the outcome of the lead question which to me is you know it's a plain blackmail and yet president putin who is supposedly so much so much concerned about you know looking tough and mass killer he was very self spoken he went out of his way to stress how much he agrees with president and go on why is that. well again coming back to do you mary dia that turkey is very important for russia both in syria and even outside of it so to have a nato member country which supports your policy is in the country which

counterbalancing actually speer colleagues of the north atlantic alliance counterbalance in their criticism of this i think it's quite important for from moscow and with without having a gun on board with his policy on syria or the reconstruction with the return of refugees then dealing with the kurds it will be almost impossible to to finalize the no two to be the fruit of the syrian complaint alexei i wonder though whether. terry care response to russia with the similar degree of understanding and accommodation and i will give you one example i was watching c.n.n. turk the other day and they ran a report there from a it lip about a father of a household who is stalking on gas masks for his children and that man actually said that he is in fear of a chemical attack coming not from the syrian army but from the russians and that shows to me that the aired on friendly media which c.n.n.

turk definitely is. quite happy with stirring the anti russian sentiment there is no law lost for moscow in ankara is there yeah but it's politics i mean there should be no surprise about that i mean don't forget the turkey is not a moscow ally it's just a partner it's merger of convenience the same as a russia has with iran so let's not fool ourselves and thing that took you will you know turn its back. to states or europe and just embrace russia's new alliance no it won't happen and this is why i mean it has two. sticks and carrots and this is exactly what what we see during the face to face meetings we can see that both presidents. respect each other the want to negotiate they want to be on compromise torsion continually exactly actually as they have to present a lot of them consider their countries powers even not great but regional powers

for sure and of course that prescribes i mean prescription. behavior to which i was a child and now let me ask you specifically about this specter of yet another chemical attack in syria this is where the turks and the americans despite all of their public disagreements are really playing on the same side because it was church before provided the supposed evidence on the chemical incidents that merican lately doubled down on the syrian rhetoric suggesting that they actually have strong prolife that the syrian government is preparing yet another crime of this sort do you think with the risk whatever he has going away with putin know russia to throw in his lot fully with the americans. so took it in no and you know for centuries being quite. interesting and unpredictable player so it's

a good bargain and it's uses you know weeks hides over its partners to you know trade off some great deals for itself absolutely but when accusing your potential partner all of slaughtering people with the use of chemical weapons you know i question some comes politically domestically why there are the on as a president can continue and you negotiating with russia if russia indeed back such a horrible crime so as far as i remember didn't say specifically that you know russia to blame and to accuse of chemical a definite accuses president get out of that of course i mean assad i mean everyone can accuse a on the on that but there was no word of criticism on russia public criticism of russia put its policy in syria for example when it was in. that province because at the same time because at the same time turkey had this all of

branch operation not syria we're also going. smoothly it went so also with the collateral damage and with. civilians it's so it's kind of tit for tat and i want to say that indications that erdogan is quite critical of syrian regime and bashar lots of it doesn't mean that he blames russia for that and also doesn't mean that he supports russia on its policies well actually we have to take a very short break now but maybe we'll be back in just a few moments stay tuned.

and there are some was someone said all of them mama. i don't mama. i'm going to have a little old woman you're going to. be old a little frisky. i'm not critical of what if they are going to be chilcote you know don't you but. he said to. me now you come with that he's going to get so for us we. will yes the chest. here for everyone that is for you.

join me every thursday on the alex simon show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then. prosecution will need to be criminals in place sure the fault is all. over you question the threat of fines somebody not known to seem to i mean yeah yeah i mean political pressure on that god you've. told to security jennifer knows where to put your kind of business models he was my american corporations jadhav what is sold on could be mental disease has a new album use the controls on the scene and the solution. lies up in association. no two can he sell some dollars it is just simply his or deleting to an investigative documentary.

ghost war on oxy. welcome back to worlds apart with alexy clinic of middle east expert at the russian international affairs council alexei let me pick up on the point that we were discussing just before the break the suppose that the chemical attack i think all sides are now estimating the risk of it as pretty high i mean they all alleged they quit and the chemicals have already been delivered to the ground they only disagree about who is the future perpetrator is and i think from the russian perspective the

only means of precluding such attacks from happening would be to make sure that the syrian advocation operate in the area that's the only real practical means of debasing those allegations do you think though our western and eastern partners would go as far as to accuse russia of launching such an attack. i think it's quite unrealistic scenario. i would have said you think it's unrealistic and yet apparently on the turkish media there are already some fears that i being broadcast onto the a large audience of russian supposedly preparing something like that i think that would go i mean if that happens there was a position that will go way beyond current. kind of constellation of powers in the region because now there is kind of like. an agreement between all that no major power is there involved even on the ground but the do not do.

things and that's quite clearly just some added give is that what you're trying to say about the syrian blushes. but. i was serious about it so i think it's unrealistic that russia would be accused because that would change. negotiations so that is. assuming a fresh commits this chemical attack then there will be no chance that western powers to talk to will negotiate with a country which commit this kind of code to think that maybe i have. powers in the west or in my but i think like it's not in turkish interest because that would mean that entire. deal which is currently in the works on. the north of syria on the kurds it would be destroyed and that would mean you know here's and maybe the year is over escalations and turbulence along the

turkish border in the syria and refugees and everything that speaking about turkish interest what is it that i do on ideally wants to achieve in italy bass he want to be solely in control of that province beach houses more than three million people thousands of militants that seems like too much to bargain of course i mean in the first place he control i mean to. backed rebels and position groups they control not entire. province and it seems that turkey is quite ready to. give back the majority of the province especially its. south east and south western parts and also let's not forget that also took us back militias control terrorism. syria's north permissions all of branch was conducted so it's a city in. and there is

a syrian nation army i believe it's holding troll most of the roads and most of the entry points of the yes exactly so so it isn't for a gun it's not going to like the last card to play or to hold its i mean he has another areas but he definitely will you know do it is a most attempts to. to gain a maximum of it lip that you mentioned kurdish sensibilities of turkey earlier and my understanding is that russia is trying to be attentive to those. at the cost of a defacto partition of syria even though it's not quite clear whether turkey would be interested in that now i've seen some reports in western media about. some kurdish forces to be realigning themselves with the syrian army especially after the so-called american betrayal in the aftermath of

a offering offensive do you think that is something that maybe i'm drawing air there once a year and making him a little bit more concerned about where both russians and the syrians stand at the moment that's one hundred percent right and that's all to be in hell with true rounds of reconciliation talks between representatives of kurds of a few ideas. and syrian government in damascus so no deal yet struck but there are good. prospects for that and also played into hands of both syria damascus and in moscow because that actually makes them more nervous in more negotiable on terms like that yeah we have russians who are partners with damascus and they also have quite good connections and ties with kurds so russia could be a broker between kurds and damascus the kurds and turks to finally reach a deal which will take into account concerns of both kurds turks and and

and syrian government now all three leaders said these tech crunch meeting paid lip service to serious territorial integrity do you think though they conceptualize in the same way do you do they understand that in a similar fashion. it's quite tricky question because all three powers have their forces on the ground two of them russia and iran on the official request of the syrian government and turkey is not and we can hear from syrian media that syrian officials call constantly turks as an occupier as occupants because their presence there illegal so i think it's just you know for sake of appealing to also the year that year would come it's to this say winter total integrity which is in fact i mean it's in fact it's in. all three actors interests because if we

hypothesize and that kurds autonomy or even the no. independent state that will be a precedent that will be followed by you know kurds in other countries in the rock in iran the in turkey but i think the kurdish question is now is not the only question to consider here. i think the the refugee issue is also a very pressing for example the. an envoy in syria stefan dennis de mistura said the other day that they're as many as ten thousand al qaeda connected militants in the province and they if you add to that family members the figure could be three or four times as much the question sooner or later arises where is that population going to be settled because all the powers that supported them throughout the syrian conflict are not eager to take them in turkey definitely filled its own border you know not happy about or it's not excited about letting in more refugees or more militants into its territory and to play the devil's advocate to the

russian position where do you think those people could be settled if not in some sort of an aaton the most region on turkish border because those people i mean the diehards could die hard but that still leaves a sizable population of civilians who do not want any sort of reconciliation and any sort of the official syrian authority on the ground in the thing that's one of the plans in mind during negotiations that. certain area on syrian turkish border would be necessary because i mean the u.s. as you mentioned it's impossible either unit to eliminate all those forty or fifty thousand. militants with their families so it moves with women with kids so of course it's impossible so there should be certain. deal on that and as far as tokyo already controls quiet. prolonged area of borders with

syria and also the territories in the north so that they might sort of as a transitional you know area off settlement of those going to russia or syria for that matter or iran for that matter with trust turkey with the of the minister into administering of that area that might be not only turkey mr area but also with you know u.n. . observers or not even the un observers but the russian military police which already played a. positive role in syria's north in gold highs. so that might be an option now an important player here is iran and the turkish iranian relationship is just as complicated if not more than the turkish russia relationship it was interesting that president on referred to president rouhani ascii brother during the summit but surely you would agree that the brotherhood is not without its complications what is the iranian short term and perhaps medium

term objective in the bleep i think is iran who is in. his in the best position because i mean he sees his two friends going over no struggling arguing and he's like you know staying a sign of the i mean i think you're watching i was right right right and that but it was a monkey but. iran has secured is presence in syria i mean one hundred percent the only question is that what will be the degree overrun in military press an orthonormal presence in syria so for iran it's not really a. priority to see what happens with it but on the long run of course it's in iran's interest that damascus would gain control of one hundred percent of the territory because that would mean more access to the syrian territory but iran willing to wait a little bit is that what you mean that iran is not brushing so yeah now both

president rouhani and president are there on the garage the american presence in the eastern are you afraid region much more so than president putin why is that why is russia at least from my perception a little bit less. obviously acting c.e.o. of the americans being there in the first place because it's putting the who will negotiating with americans that because i don't believe to trump will negotiate with rouhani. on that so that's kind of like putin playing on the safe side here so i'm supporting this idea that you know foreign forces. legally. in syria should be must leave but then the same at the same time is like keeping his retore quite low on that but one of the things that president rouhani specifically addressed during the summit he said that the issue of the history of race will have to be settled second off to the question is decided and i wonder how

can it really be settled i mean democrats are not going to pack up and leave just because the russians or even the iranians are asking them to one hundred percent and that's i mean from my point of view. the issue of is way more important than it lip like yes off to live a deal i mean or it was settled and then you have i mean it lip is not that much important as you for it is for the long term syria the reconstruction or will be all all of the oil and gas and of course of course and there kurdish areas which are well established in terms of administration in terms of governance so they're quite sustainable and incorporating back. into the under the damascus control is one of the most important tasks well actually it's been a wonderful and exciting conversation thank you very much for being with us today and encourage our viewers to keep it going on our social media pages and hope to

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in or over the week's biggest stories british authorities released photos of two men they claim carried out the poisoning of former russian spy. his daughter says that a major inconsistency is though in. terms of violent escalation of tension a chemical attack in syria is. intense debate at the u.n. security council. i'm so happy right now voting underway in sweden's general election a survey suggests there's been a surge in support for right wing parties in the country propelled by gratian sentiment.