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tv   Worlds Apart  RT  September 9, 2018 10:30am-10:52am EDT

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the route six. good news. for you leaves room. for. the welcome to worlds apart of millions trapped in a delay of facing death this guardian had learned was typical of the western media coverage just before the leaders of russia turkey and iran got together to discuss the future of the last opposition held strong called in syria did the meeting in tact eliminate the danger of an imminent bloodbath and was it ever on the cards to discuss that i'm now joined by alexi klebnikov middle east expert at the russian
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international affairs council alexey thank you very much for your time thank you for coming over thank you for inflation now i'm sure you watch the broadcast of the meeting which was quite unusual in a sounds of allowing all of us a glimpse of how global leaders tangled with one another behind closed doors let's watch a clip of what happened at this meeting and then discuss it and if we declare a cease fire this will be a victory for the summit and the most important step in the process will give peace of mind to civilians that it is usually a big state to do but if we don't have representatives of the opposition at the table. i sort of to be the president of turkey is right that would be good too but we can't speak for them especially for the terrorists on this trip i saw going to so a bit of a a friendly becoming on the part of president putin and president present aragon later refrain he's requesting to let's call on all the bad. guys to lay down their
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arms to reach everybody eagerly agreed i wonder though how do you interpret that was that all theatrical in front of the t.v. cameras or was it a genuine effort on the part of president barry go on to get a little bit more out of this meeting well the first place if we hypothesize and thing that it was actually staged in reality it reflects existing disagreements between all parties i mean it's impossible to believe that all three russia took in iran have agreed on everything so far so of course it's not true so no actually this episode tiny episode gives us some idea about like we'll disagreements between russian turkey on that one of our colleagues here in moscow suggested that this was a good called bad call protean played out by a putin an error though on two on one hand montagne the credibility of the opposition and on the other hand to bide our there on
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a little bit more time the question is why would turkey need more time in a bleep and is there any credible opposition left in that province because from the kremlin's perspective everybody who wanted to reconcile with either syria or russia have already done that in other provinces the only people left in italy the diehards. starting with the second point i mean depends on who you are and how we treat and how we define core the moderate opposition and what of. the moderation of the opposition it's about whether or not these people are ready to talk and from what i understand there have been several statements by their leaders militant leaders on the ground that i know it's very easy to negotiate they want to as i said die hard i mean doing this are in conflict we always and every stage and in every year we saw such groups and from the perspective. ninety five percent of those groups are not inclined to negotiate and to talk her
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to pursue a political process so. i think it would not matter if we talk about the summit what matters here is russia turkish relations and their partnership in lip in the first place russia understands that for turkey it's one of the most important parts and it can't just push it and impose its own wheel on on its partner well i would partially both agree and disagree with you because i do think their relationship with turkey eric strongly is extremely important and we will talk more about that but i also think russia genuinely. cares about what happens to the people of that province and i think this is one of valuable thing that we got out of the summit a very explicit declaration by all the three leaders that they will try to take a lot of care in trying to protect the civilian lives and we are talking about more than three million people living there but from what i understand it doesn't mean
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that russia syria or iran for that matter would refrain from narrow strikes aimed at the militants infrastructure is it possible to separate the two to go off to the terrorists and fully spare the civilians i think september fourth it was the first series of airstrikes in the weeks. so when they targeted. targets outside of populated areas so and in fact after that we didn't hear much of a position from the western side and from what i think one of the things that many observers note about the the province is that it's very densely populated and one of the tactics by terrorists to sensually mingle going to even the russians or the syrians tried to spare the civilian lives as much as possible i think the i would assume that the terrorists would try a quite the opposite you know. historically during the war we saw that human shields are used to know almost in every. serious case and.
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in ghouta so that was plenty of such cases and of course i mean during the civil war and during the military permissions it's almost impossible to avoid collateral damage as it's called and. russian the first place and partners they also took is of although all want to minimize possible casualties among civilians and also among those i mean among the militants because that would actually. increase another refugee flow which would go where so it's turkish borders exactly now social media especially western and turkish a social media filled with a search and that. brushed aside a request for cease far in terms of pleas backing it formally but i think practically speaking russia has no other choice but to accommodate turkey and that request specifically in order to prevent this massive exodus of the civilians do
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you think does a large scale assault in italy was ever on the cards let's put it this way the assault is on the table that's for sure but the degree and the character of this assault is still to be defined so basically that what was one of the reasons of the summit gathering so the three parties aimed to decide what limits will have this would have but as we see i mean they postponed the assault that's one important outcome and secondly i mean it's not out of agenda completely it's still on the table and those strikes and this. gathering of syrian military on the border of the province also confirms that almost all preparations for a possible offensive is complete now i think you would agree of of may have. or that russia is after in italy it is not just
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a military victory it wants to use that military victory as a transition to a full scale revival and rebuilding of syria which would involve the return of the refugees hopefully the return of the international investors to haue bin reckons traction don't you think it's a little bit naive on the part of moscow to believe that if it plays in good faith in the comedy aids or try to accommodate everybody that you know everybody else really respond in kind and we'll actually allow if let alone assist the full scale rebuilding of that country. there is no reason to believe that that will happen exactly how we describe because during the three previous cases with three other discolorations owns and works quite opposite the quiet harsh offensive partnered with talks and striking deals and perspicacious of. rebels. but anyways it was a very harsh narrative here in the position this is quite different here turkey is
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involved and turkey is quite important partner and also have invested heavily in its own supported groups in syria's north and it also has another objective syrian kurds and to follow up on that. agree it's nice to believe but i would also say that it is naive to believe that. basically dealing with it lip will help to finalize or you know get back refugees or attract you know investments foreign investments that let me ask you about the sort of the language that the leaders employ because president ed though on the tough cookie that he is usually very blunt in laying out his argument and during this meeting in. you know the future called peroration to russia and turkey depend on the outcome of the lead question which to me is you know it's
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a plain blackmail and yet president putin who is supposedly so much so much concerned about you know looking tough and mass killer he was very self spoken he went out of his way to stress how much he agrees with president and go on why is that. well again coming back to the mere idea that turkey is very important for russia both in syria and even outside of it so to have a nato member country which supports your policies in the country which counterbalancing actually its dear colleagues of the north atlantic alliance. balancing their criticism of this i think it's quite important for from moscow and with without having a gun on board with his policy on syria or the reconstruction with the return of refugees then dealing with the kurds it will be almost impossible to to finalize
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the no two to be the fruit of the syrian complaint alex i wonder though whether. carrie care response to russia with the similar degree of understanding and accommodation and i will give you one example i was watching c.n.n. turk the other day and they ran a report there from a it lip about a father of a household who is stocking on gas masks for his children and that man actually said that he is in fear of a chemical attack coming not from the syrian army but from the russians and that shows to me that the aired on friendly media which c.n.n. turk definitely is. quite happy with stirring the russian sentiment there is no law lost for moscow in ankara is there yeah but it's politics i mean should be no surprise about that i mean don't forget the turkey is not a moscow ally is just a partner it's a merge of convenience the same as a russia has with iran so let's not fool ourselves and thing that tokyo will you
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know turn its back. to states or europe and just embrace russia's new alliance no it won't happen and this is why i mean it has two. sticks and carrots and this is exactly what what we see during the face to face meetings we can see that both presidents. respect each other want to negotiate they want to be also compromised continually exactly actually as if to present all of them consider their countries powers even not great but regional powers for sure and of course that prescribes i mean prescription. behavior to which i was a child and now let me ask you specifically about this specter of yet another chemical attack in syria this is where the turks and the americans despite all of their public disagreements are really playing on the same side because it was turkey before provided the supposed evidence on the chemical incidents that merican lately doubled down on the syrian rhetoric suggesting that they actually have
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strong prolife that this. when government is preparing yet another crime of this sort do you think with the risk whatever he has going away with putin know russia to you throw in his lot fully with the americans. so took it in no and you know for centuries being quite. interesting and unpredictable player so it's a good bargain and it's uses you know weeks hides over its partners to you know trade off some great deals for itself absolutely but when accusing your potential partner all of slaughtering people with the use of chemical weapons you know i question some comes politically domestically why there are the on as a president can continue you negotiating with russia if russia indeed back such a horrible crime so as far as i remember didn't say specifically that you know
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russia to blame and to accuse of chemical attack an attack is this present get out of that of course i mean assad i mean everyone can accuse a on the on that but there was no word of criticism on russia public criticism of russia put its policy in syria for example when it was in. that province because at the same time because at the same time turkey had this all of branch operation not syria we're also going. smoothly it went so also with the collateral damage and with. civilians it's so it's kind of tit for tat and i want to say that indications that erdogan is quite critical of syrian regime and bashar loss of doesn't mean that he blames
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russia for that and also doesn't mean that he supports russia on this. this is well alexi we have to take a very short break now but they did not do. things and that's quite clearly just some added give is that what you're trying to say. but. i was serious about it so i think it's really unrealistic that russia would be accused because that would change. of negotiations so and also let's not forget that also took us back militias control terrorism. syria's north permissions all of brunch was conducted so it's a city in. and there is a syrian nation army i believe it's holding troll most of the roads and most of the entry points of the u.s. and exactly so so it isn't for a gun it's not going to like the last card to play or to hold its i mean he has
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another areas but he definitely will you know do it is a most attempts to. to gain a maximum of it lip that you mentioned kurdish sensibilities of turkey earlier and my understanding is that russia is trying to be attentive to those. at the cost of a defacto partition of syria even though it's not quite clear whether turkey would be interested in that now i've seen some reports in western media about. some kurdish forces to be realigning themselves with the syrian army especially after the so-called american betrayal in the aftermath of a offering offensive do you think that is something that maybe i'm drawing air there once a year and making him a little bit more concerned about where both russians and the syrians stand at the moment that's one hundred percent right as far as tokyo right to control is quiet.
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prolonged area of borders with syria and also. territories in the north so that they might so of. transitional you know area off settlements of those going to russia or syria for that matter or iran for that matter with trust turkey with the of the minister into administering of that area that might be not only turkey destroy the area but also with you know un observers or that even the un observers but the russian military police which already played a. positive role in syria's north in goal and highs. so that might be an option now an important player here is iran and the turkish iranian relationship is just as complicated if not more than the turkish russia relationship it was interesting that president are there on refer to president rouhani ascii brother during the summit but surely you would agree that these brotherhood is not without its complications what is the rainy and short term and
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perhaps medium term objective in the bleep i think is iran who is in the is in the best position because i mean he sees his two friends going over no struggling are good and he's like you know staying a sign of the i mean i think you're watching i was right right right and that but it was a monkey but. iran has secured his presence in syria i mean one hundred percent the only question is that what will be the degree overrun in military press and or konami presence in syria so for iran it's not really a. priority to see what happens with it but on the long run of course it's in iran's interest that damascus would gain control of one hundred percent of the territory because that would mean more access to the syrian territory but iran willing to wait
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a little bit is that what you mean that iran is not rushing so yeah now both president rouhani and president are there on the garage the american presence in the eastern are you afraid region much more so than president putin why is that why is russia at least from my perception a little bit less. obviously acting c.e.o. of the americans being there in the first place because it's putting the who will negotiating with americans that because i don't believe that trump will go shit with rouhani. on that so that's kind of like putting playing on the safe side here so i'm supporting this idea that you know foreign forces. legally. in syria should be must leave but in the same at the same time is like keeping his retore quite low on that but one of the things that president rouhani specifically addressed during the summit he said that the issue of the history of race will have
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to be settled second off to the question is decided and i wonder how can it really be settled i mean democrats are not going to pack up and leave just because the russians or even the iranians are asking them to one hundred percent and that's i mean from my point of view. the issue of is way more important then it lip like yes off to a deal i mean or it was settled and then you have i mean it is not that much important as you for it is for the long term serious reconstruction or will be all all of the oil and gas and refinery of course of course and there kurdish areas which are well established in terms of administration in terms of governance so they're quite sustainable and incorporating back. into the under the control is one of the most important tasks well actually it's been a wonderful and exciting conversation thank you very much for being with us today
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at encouraging our viewers to keep it going on our social media pages and hope to see you again same place same time here on worlds apart. in a libre few of the week's biggest stories this hour british authorities released photos of two men they claim carried out the poisoning of the former russian spy sergei scripts all of his daughter moscow though says that of major inconsistences and that version of events. concerns were volunteers collation other potential chemical
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attack in syria is it live in spot ted states in the un security council in the week has gone. on so they were tracking right now this weekend voting still underway in sweden election as polls predict a surge in support for the country's right wing party.

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