outrage how day russia do this it must be preparing for a new world war or to invade nato or to invade nato in a new world war the usual fear mongering which is notably absent when others carry out military exercises and the spite nato observers being invited to attend maneuvers are not directed against other countries not consistent with military doctrine which is defensive hysterics aside this promises to be a spectacle to remember and will be that in russia's far east with the latest and greatest from voss talk two thousand and eighty. dollars. has been anything but clear with the war torn country approaching some semblance of

normality will washington react cross-talk debates on its next. join me every thursday on the alex simon show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics small business i'm show business i'll see you then.

hello in welcome to crossfire for all things considered i'm peter lavelle u.s. president donald trump is on a complete reversal on syria a full one hundred eighty what accounts for this why and what's next. cross talking terms one eighty on syria i'm joined by my guest here in moscow mark slobodan he's an international affairs and security analyst we also have dmitri bobbitt she's a political analyst we spoke nick international and we have done these and he is a visiting scholar at the higher school of economics originally cross-like rules in fact that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciated we're going to develop this entire program to what's going on in syria primarily donald trump's one eighty a few months ago he mentioned publicly getting out of syria now it looks like the president has changed his mind or is had his mind changed mark yeah i think i'll go with the last stuff to what we've seen this week with the release of the book by

bob woodward with the release of this not amisse editorial in the new york times this is an op ed in the new york times i'm sorry with this deep state or in the administration outing himself i'm sorry not deep state or he pulls it out of state or even for the term of the state ok studies that are. you know saying that he swipes documents off of trump's desk to prevent him from signing them and that there is a ball of officials particularly on foreign policy that do whatever they can to prevent donald trump's policies from being fulfilled so i think we're looking rather at the deep state the steady state has full control of the foreign and military policy now with regards to syria as we've long discussed about and we heard this announcement of this new policy of this indefinite for ever u.s. military presence in syria not by trump himself but by james jeffrey ok it's only

what. what is the strategy. do they even know this point you know i think it's a good question to ask whether or not there's a clear strategy definitely after you know afghanistan iraq libya is worth asking whether or not there's a clear strategy behind but i think with charm it's definitely something to this that the u.s. isn't actually acting at a unitary actor at the moment given that you have this infighting even within this own administration but. if we assume that trump's assumptions have been quite genuine that he wants to pull america security guarantees back a little bit there has been two important exception of which has been first iran. with iran and the second will be america's friendship with israel and of course syria is right in the middle of both of these two exceptions so i guess he was

always somewhat predisposed to even things which is that you know if he gets out here perry. envelope with all of his promises on the back that i've mentioned many times in this program he's not technically starting a new war that was his promise ok so he's leaving it here. we had iran russia and turkey meeting in. everyone puts a nice face on it but it was a disaster it was a car wreck well i think why the very fact that russia and iran walked on something together the first time when i think three same curious you know if you look at the history of conflict we know you know agree on something in common you know who's the odd man out i think in this way it's of course spread and. it's very unfortunate because basically when i talk to syria and so they all agree that the war is

a war there will be all will be quick or it should be but it looks like it's going to be reignited in a really big way. the problem is that their position has exhausted its potential i mean it's clear that syrians wants one piece of the country's exhaust and everything is more or less clear you know and the syrians they simply have no guts no desire for forty continued war so they're really irritated by this continued uncertainty a bald eagle iop ok ok that's ok that's exactly what we want to get you're absolutely right but they're not so exhausted that they're not going to and they are doing it as we speak right now yeah liberating the city what we've actually seen so far is just the claiming of the low hanging fruit the real wars are yet to come and they could potentially be much much more significant i wear the regards to the strategy that the u.s. is deploying in syria i think the moon of alabama blog we put it we were just talking about it eloquently here it is here you are on this literally on this thing

it's here u.s. military illegally stays in occupied syria dot dot dot underpants. it would be wrong to. leave syria and the syrian government falls i mean that's the even if you're actually reading the same article here glenn it was that everyone had asked all foreigners have to leave syria except for the united states so why the turks will that remains to be played out here and but there seems to be a move to create in effect a partition right now i mean the u.s. wants to create some kind of state with some like autonomy semi-independent it will be dependent on the western powers primarily the united states no one in the in the region wants that may be israel. so. i think that it's going to have to appreciate the situation to the united states in at the moment in terms of what their initial objectives costs of course when they

went into syria first supporting this jealous. jihadists want to write whatever you want to call it a however if we want to call it but of course the victims were somewhat clear you get rid of assad which is an important ally of iran. they're considered knowings to . and of course the reestablish us yet it must mean the regional of syria thought differently apparently. but i'm guessing now we have the opposite iran has more influence there than it had in the past the us a spin largely discredited in the region and of course russia's. security provider so you know if you do if you're from egypt or jordan if you want security in the region from now on you have to also book a flight to moscow so i think that. everything that went for has gone the other way and that's not necessarily a good thing because when you have this winner takes all situations that had other side a more historically been more resetting celine's david ignatius is interview with

a high government. white house official about creating quagmires in syria the human usually the term strategic patience is applied to the united states dealing with north korea but the russians have been strategically patient in syria you could tell in turn around the blood of your putin is beginning to lose his patience with his partners and with the situation on the ground again the syrian side will be in their patience with the war and of course the russians including the argument. in the patients with the so-called international community i mean i watched the. session chaired by victorious in the went on syria and i was just disgusted you know. any reason why i mean example the fraying the french said that russia's was the main responsibility for the possible humanitarian catastrophe. proms. syria france was never invited there it is

a former colonial power the french killed hundreds of thousands of syrians in the plaintiff's aintree and now they say this is all the responsibility there was. a victorian law of herself who just recently said russia was never going to be america's friend you remember and now she says she's calling on russia in the end of her speech where quote in order to show walk with us walk with your no we're never going to be all friend but walk with us and let me decode that means listen to us and do what we say hear more that we have this are just very important very quick the united states has been warned about bad consequences in syria new riyadh in mali the former prime minister of iraq said that the civil war would spread to iraq they said no and it it did spread their african union in libya the african union warned the united states that offer to cut off the falls there is going to be and we gratian disaster is going to be a carrier so it really didn't at least two thousand and three there was no isis in

iraq and there was no isis in syria mark we hear humanitarian catastrophe we've heard this many many times before look what happened with aleppo when it was liberated was there a humanitarian catastrophe no it was completely forgotten ok for the same thing the humanitarian forces of al qaeda were completely driven from the city. i mean this coming from the united states is simply rise above all right no one cried about a humanitarian catastrophe when the u.s. was bombing the iraqi cities of. salt or uninvited the syrian cities of rock body men be when they were driving jihadists in this case isis out of western iraq and eastern syria in fact in enter agency u.n. team and amnesty international on the grass. in rocka after the u.s.

offensive says it was the most destroyed city in the syrian conflict seventy to eighty percent of the buildings destroyed far more than two thousand civilian casualties and. this is you know the rhetoric that we hear from the united states basically it's saying when you are conducting counter terror ops against al qaeda in the remnants of our proxies do what we say not what we did in syria you know if you think. it's interesting how trump is being played into this here because i think there's a lot of smart military people would think that the military strategy there is it isn't a military strategy at this point it's a political one it is is it's creating and putting down a marker here. there could be a conflict with russia in all this is this being followed out or is it a bluff. well i think they can stumble into this again when you develop

a strategy what distinguishes strategy from policy is usually you have to predict what the adversaries will do and i think in this situation i've had too many activists with too many interests probably hasn't while they might not have planned everything out we often assume that they know exactly what they're doing but i don't think that they do and i think this quagmire strategy when they think about this is going to go to reason record it with other things that's happened here is you usually somebody must go then you invade the country but now they've been behind the country and they have that man they're deciding what should be done so this is regime change in reverse gen well gentlemen to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on syria and staying.

in twenty four to you know bloody revolution to the demonstrations going from being relatively peaceful political protests to be increasingly violent revolution is always spontaneous or is it you know here i mean you know i listen to a pretty good clue in the new bill is that i mean you belonging to the former ukrainian president recalls the events of twenty four. those who took. it in the studio over five billion dollars to assist ukraine in these an article that will ensure a secure and prosperous and democratic. you know world's big partners. and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that. mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the star interests are. much more

aligned so i think that the split was the us and also other interests in terms of turkey considering leaning more to the east i think. weapon sales i think there's a lot of work in there and i think that the gun perhaps was trying to use this is a real wrinkle in all of this is the kurds ok because the u.s. continues to support them but people on the ground do you not want in northern syria in northeast syria they don't want to be ruled by. turkey. you know what would you call them they're all their assets ok and then at the same time they don't want to be ruled by these arab tribes that want to be ruled by the kurds so i mean it's kind of a hopeless situation there and then the u.s. is in the middle of a battle well when their u.s. moved in and when the destabilized situation in syria the destabilize the situation in iraq before the consequences were unpredictable it's like starting a chain reaction you know and i'm not to ensure the united states is really guided

by interests in this war situation because people look at their resolves the results are abysmal for u.s. interests the united states failed to pull pull not even an anti west and president president assad was not anti western and mildly disagree he was called a reformer absolutely yes and the result is that they was they basically lost a very important ally which is much more important than syria in libya they moved in or gay they didn't like it got out he was killed now they have a civil war in the bear migration current crisis in europe ice is so great in libya so if we judge the situation from the position of interests a bomber should be declared the most disastrous president in u.s. history simply because he's actions were against against the long term u.s. interests. is this just refusing to feet i mean is this double down and keep trying what we've been doing before i mean it explains of rationality isn't just the

empire isn't missy on a commune these ideas right i mean if it's interested in where the results i mean the result side of the ledger is pretty thin yeah i mean they of course refuse to see that you know the increased iranian russian influences is obvious blowback to what we all saw at the beginning of the conflict they have an inability to see that and they also have an inability to admit defeat to russia that would have huge geopolitical import you know representatives of russia russia russia on our ground the world they simply can't allow it so what the neo cons have been doing is all along since trump took office they've been planning to use the sea ron spin to make to convince trump to become more active in syria not because of russia but because of iran and that has played out in what the us has announced as their new strategy i.e. they are never leaving their illegal military occupation of syria unless iran leaves

all their troops home which is a matter between syria and iran. and the syria syrian government that is acceptable to the international community to the we're not interested in regime change but we're not leaving until we get a government that is acceptable to the international community which means the washington consensus here glenn. we've talked about this subject for so many times on this program here but really the issue that we have players like turkey that are unpredictable but one country that is absolutely predictable in all this is iran in iran has made it very very clear that will not allow the current government the political political arrangement in damascus to be forcefully overthrown that is their red line and that's what the us. cannot accept not agree with that and still it would also be reasonable to suspect that they might be next in line once it was

their car from syria so i think it's just healthy self defense as well in addition to looking after an ally but i think their interests are clearer because they clearly defined it to mean following it throughout the whole thing and they were invited you know wanted there yes which is was slightly ironic that the americans will set up an occupation so now in syria are calling for the iranians to pull back which obviously one they didn't appreciate they're actually invited to stabilize the country so i mean if there's going to be a permanent presence here then it tells me that we will never get to. period of peace i mean this goes back to the question meyer comment which i think it was probably bolton or palm pale that said is it because they don't have a end game that they can achieve just keep stirring it up and i've kind of liken it to like a roulette wheel you know you throw the wheel you start spinning and then you throw the ball and you don't get the number you want let's spin it again that seems to me

the strategy here which is very dangerous well i agree i think that a quagmire as well as setting up the occupation is only a small indication of an absence of a strategy because what they're saying so sure for the position. we're not sure what we want it or how we can get it but it will delay and see what opportunities comes in the future and we can negotiate with this quagmire so it's expensive. creates tensions and a lot of it lead russia in iraq just like we did in afghanistan by supporting the move just to point to point b. well i mean that you compare it to rule that i compare it to history like. no no no it will be reversed. but i compare it to the wall devolution there bolshevists the basically a you know spread no i don't it's not historical this is absolutely i mean like we tried them can agree we failed doesn't matter who trading we would try again in germany in germany we are going about would be a period after the first of all of the worst of all when russia was

a radio ideological bolshevism was really in its early stage were active and believe in it itself so in the same way it all reminds me of the is ok we failed in iraq you know iraq is a law and now you rainy and miss it is reporting accidents reported that the next to their israeli territory doesn't matter we will try again in libya we failed in libya that's better than i do or would you cannot be wrong you know people can be wrong individuals can be wrong we picked out the wrong candidate hillary clinton she was to do these if we would have a better one next time but we couldn't feel we couldn't really use the ivory. it's a wrecked their ideology is correct so in the same way syria now with this document united nations they're active on the. parameters and principles of u.s. aid to syria their idea of the document is that there should be no u.n. eight to reconstruct syria or until there is a political transition or maybe to the little maybe to the little statelet they

will get. you know mark one of the things i find fascinating going back to the internal politics of the united states is that this is throwing the dice but if it fails will strops fault isn't it it's his administration well i mean we could have completely ignore that it was obama who actually launched the proxy war on syria if we want but i don't really i don't really see it that way because we see broad bipartisan support you know whether it's adam schiff. and. nancy pelosi doing meet and greets with the mujahideen you know video messages and so on there is broad bipartisan support the the two party war party came here to say this is mccain consensus is fully behind you know the u.s. stepping up their aggression against syria no but instead. it was if he

stepped down they would blame the other three status has many fathers but failure is a bastard ok and i think this is you know in a there's a bipartisan support at the highest levels against president they want to see him fail on everything ok even if it's in spite of me in spite of the interest of the united states in the world are going to the last word well i agree with what mark said in terms of this a bipartisan interest in this in continuing this what is essentially a failed mission but the same time when i would point out of a lot of people in washington are noticing that this. here the unit moment is retracting and there is a vacuum an opening feels as if you are more aggressive in its allies here but they even though recognize that this is the one who will have a good answer what now be a transitional next pointed out that they would like to work with russia as long as russia thus what is told so it's not really quite sure what will come next and i think why do you think they should transition to building a wall on the southern border it's all the time of the kind of gentlemen many

thanks to my guests here in moscow this is the end of our broadcast segment stay with us for the extended version on our you tube channel see you next time and remember crosstalk. when lawmakers manufacture consent to instant of public wealth. when the ruling classes protect themselves. with the financial merry go round to live alone even one percent. of the time

we can all middle of the room signals. to leave the room clean real news is really cold. the. prosecution will need to become almost. the fault is all. over you push ups are just regular fines come also by the number one perceived to i mean yeah i'm yasmeen political pressure on a god you've only known called golden earthworm security genocide knows what the kind of business models used by american corporations jadhav was incomplete is sold on couldn't matilda's it as an m.p. use. t.m.a.o. was on the scene and the solution. lies up in association with. newton he saw as it is just simply his attorney to maintain an investigative documentary. ghost war

on oxy. french president among the. online video emerges of him talking to a group of migrants some of whom claim they've been documented in the country for

yours. sweden's ruling social democrat suffered their worst the election result in this century while the insurgents sweden democrats make major gains with their immigration reform. also in the program the spines iraq through clearing itself free from islamic states almost a year ago we reported how the terror group remains active across large swathes self the country.