some find themselves worlds apart. just to look for common ground. i am ask eyes are this is the kaiser report navigating the we board of your mind. this is an s. . i must be stacey. max you know i'm so excited to get to the second half because you interviewed michael hudson you already did that for us so we're so excited to get to that we're actually going to have this half quite short for the extended interview with dr michael hudson about debt i can tell you something. of course he is an economist and a historian an economic historian and he has amazing stories but our history is being written today and that is turkey calls us wild wolves to abandon dollar in

trade turkish president early last sunday vowed and karo would pursue non-dollar transactions and trade with russia and other countries accusing the us of behaving like wild wolves he was encouraged to extend and talking to some entrepreneurs and business people and what he said exactly was quote america behaves like wild wolves don't believe them using the dollar only damages us we will not give up we will be victorious of course there's always famous last words but the fact is again this is something that we've been covering on kaiser for for years and signaling a warning about that the end of the dollar the are hedge money around the world is . basically unlike previous empires through that debt through that channel of debt through the swift system through the u.s. dollar which is just an item of debt an iou so we've able we've been able to control the world through that we've had that power to force everybody to compile

of that but as soon as you wield your power your power thus inevitably be begins to diminish because the hubris and joins the bum of the month club whether it's gadhafi said oh him they all say we're getting out of the dollar and we're going to price oil in euros or dollars bad hugo chavez is another bum of the month who got destroyed by the dollar the current guy who's ever running venezuela is going to get destroyed by the dollar look turkey started talking about. the wolf the wild wolves of america stop crying wolf grow grow a pair and a dog crypto hard money real hard body oh that's right you're all paul paul paul paul paul paul paul well whatever swiss bank account you have in the way just go there and shut up well. or maybe i made that up who cares it doesn't

peanut who cares just go away and shut up he is a member of turkey is a member of nato and of course this he's backed up by the talk coming from germany as well germany is always in the middle of whatever empire is falling apart and a new one rising so we'll see what happens in that it's just a signal these are signals and perhaps like the others before him they'll just be destroyed but the big wildcard of course what most geopolitics and geo economics of the last twenty years is really about is the rise of china and you could kind of see that in two thousand we as a nation gave up on our own people that's when you see all of the charts start to like fall apart for what wealth and income gap is what the ordinary worker made what sort of benefits we had we saw the escalation in debts related to education and health care the ordinary bottom ninety nine point nine percent of the population had to pay big time if they wanted any access because we think the

police didn't care about us anymore so there is a question bloomberg dot com is again financial news and they're looking at it and they're asking does china have what it takes to be a superpower and they look at various aspects of it whether they have their financial power that they have an economic power the military power and the cultural power the soft power obviously they do not have the soft power that the u.s. does the u.s. has hollywood and there are very few other areas of the world that have something even remote. similar where they can project this you know amazing corowa story about themselves but. in terms of regional they do see by two thousand and thirty that. it's bizarre to consider america a regional power in asia but they reckon by two thousand and thirty that china will definitely be the regional superpower and no longer be the u.s. in that area due to their military might china's military my and their economic

might in the area and well so that therefore the u.s. they bloomberg projects will no longer be the regional power in asia so the other key question they look at is a lot whether it could be a superpower globally and they said that part of the problem is that their one child policy is about to really the fact that they've had the one child policy for decades that they're no longer going to have. the workforce and part of the reason for the one belt one road policy is because of their absence of of work force but because of that one belt one road policy they now have economic interests in that sways of the world and this is a great chart to show this is the road part this is the maritime part and one of our guests on our podcast recently pointed out that this is all subject to sanctions right now pakistan turkey iran russia so those are all under u.s.

sanctions as part of the one belt one road policy in china well look i mean china becomes of all when they put a man on the moon ok then american will take notice and they'll be like well with china there's a country called china what maybe we should get or you know you mentioned culture there and soft power and the character of a nation america if it's faced with an existential threat like china becoming a superpower will get its act together and like we did during the cold war after russia put up split nic the u.s. . landed on the moon that's why i mention the moon and look if we have an existential crisis coming down the path guys like trump and other entrepreneurial you know leaders will mobilize the country and i welcome this challenge because right now america doesn't have anybody else up there to play with you know kind of board we would be great if we had other superpower out there so here's what policy countries have industrial policies japan had our industrial policy and he told us

so does korea ok and they made them world beating manufacturers and exporters and america has i think an ace up its sleeve in its one point six trillion dollar military budget in other words the leader of the united states can say no we're going to cut that in half and we're going to put seven hundred billion dollars to work tomorrow in doing a solar or a renewable energy projects now that fracking is dead provability it's dead now the new york times said it was dead even though he said it was dead five years ago but now that they've the paper of record says is that so it's officially dead and you take that huge chunk of money and you say ok we're going to do solar we're going to do solar arrays across america we got huge deserts got a lot of sunshine are going to create a lot of energy renewable energy and we're going to take it into the twenty first century so again if china's going to wake in the monster the beast the dragon the the american entrepreneurial spirit you know the u.s. economy is benefiting by the fact that people are so encouraged by trump that

consumer spending is up because they feel like this guy gives them confidence industrial production is up at things are booming here the latest figures from august is actually shows that. you know the economy is booming and so our stock markets they're coming coming to life they say they're responding they're responding to the existential threat is keeping over the parapet. well that was interesting getting getting prepared well let's look at the future by talking to the historian michael hudson in the second let's talk to dr michael hudson of the second he knows stuff. go away much more coming. stay there.

what popes who. put themselves on the line big get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president. some want to be rich. but you want to be close to see like them before. people. might be interested in the waters.

welcome back to the cars report i'm asked as are time now to turn to michael hudson author of many books including his next one out this of amber it's called quote end for give them their debt ok michael hudson welcome back to be here all right michael your new book has a very long time it's called and forgive them their debts lending foreclosure and redemption from the bronze age finance to the jubilee year you have said debts that cannot be repaid will not be repaid tell us about jubilees when did they start and what do they look like. well i began to write a history of cancellations almost forty years ago. in the process i got all

the way back sooner and babylonia and the little times and joined the harvard faculty as an babylonian archaeology and i make. about a museum which are the center of all of the department and i realized that amazing as it seems nobody's written history of debt in the world so i am part of a three volume work but this is the first volume and it deals with how originated in the bronze age in mesopotamia and how every ruler of sooner and babylonia when they take the throne their first act would be to proclaim a clean slate cancel the debts liberate people who were imposed or sunk into bondage for debt and they redistribute land that was. foreclosed on by predators in other words or the babylonian rulers would do a morality in is group so marion's in the third millennium be in the babylonians

and the second millennium were exactly what the the jews took over judaism took over in the first millennium when the exiled jews returned from babylon yet into. into the yet and. applied this three point. as the jubilee year and they wrote it into the very core of leviticus into the core mosaic law and that became the whole they rewrote the whole history of the old testament is a struggle between better and creditor interests kings by the first millennium no longer enslin that. not only and it's. i wish lands but in the mediterranean they went over to the side of all of our. creditors and so

it was the written religious leaders cancellation out of the hands of us. at the center of the basic religion and this was the case by the time of jesus and we know now that these roles. the whole told your own is a. cancellation was a popular rush or opposed by the leading jewish rabbi such as well who introduced rose will saying we waive all the rights under. cancel. this is what jesus. spoke about in the very first sermon that he gave. this. one to the temple unroll the role of isaiah and where i was a zero point zero debt and solution the year of the lord jubilee year and jesus

said i am to proclaim the jubilee year and well this prophecy and luke says it all around and. in his own or it gave. the sermon got angry at him. and started a whole. political fight between creditor interests that gain control of the jewish church and jesus said wait a minute i want to restore the original judaism. and. we all know how it ended he was put to death not because he was talking about rescuing people from zen's but rescuing people from that and there were. sin and death are the same because in archaic language. the word for death

was originally the main thing that deaths were taken up or to pay for having committed a sin namely personal injury but we know in indo-european culture the very go when somebody or injuring them in an arm or whatever this idea of sin is that jesus general who's in the is there any which were in general so what are you to know who is really not only his through and solutions and how they end up being what the general philosophy was all the way sooner and babylonia through today in israel but also the history of how debt cancellation with woman in their religion and in the key religious waiting all the way down through the byzantine. right now you talk about how people get ended that. usually you know the catastrophic things happen illnesses happen people get into

debt and then you have these debt jubilees the slate is wiped clean and the economies are restarted i know when i was living in france the new president i believe or the new mayor of paris whenever they got elected they would forgive all parking tickets you know this was kind of a continuation of this thing but at that very question though dr michael hudson is that we we seem to have transitioned to an era where we're no longer believe in debt to believe but we have what i guess you could call it a credit jubilee in other words in the two thousand and eight crisis that was a debt driven crisis the policy to come back and address that was not to forgive the debts but to balance out the creditors is this an historic change have we seen this historic lee ever seen it before and is. a dangerous precedent because the debt to believe the same the work for thousands of years this is something kind of . what are your thoughts well already and in antiquity you had other creditor is.

the wealthy classes saying that what is sacred is not cancelling their debts but in forcing their payments and already by the fourth century in athens jurors and marriage throughout greece or a lot of to take an oath not to an act any policy that will cancel the debts or redistribute the land and so already way back then. the question was what's going to be sacred creditor interests that lead to a bankrupt in society and pushing it in a certain order and. over most of the population at large. in order to keep them from falling at the edge so that if you look at modern mainstream histories that reason rome they say western civilization is founded and differs from all other said earlier civilizations where the sanctity of property

what they mean the sanctity of property is really the sanctity of debt and the right of creditors to foreclose on the property of the population at large to foreclose on the state and to really take over the entire economy so you could say that western civilization is founded on that and having led the surf them and temporally and it's the same dynamic that you've got going out today reducing the population ascension later in age where and that's the relevance of the study of and quick what led to you to listen then is that tendency of debt to grow more rapidly than the ability to pay that people fell into debt not only because they were sick and had to borrow so many percent that somebody who only. were not part of it all they were techs the rears your parking friends. most of the deaths are

unpaid taxes because of the crop failure that prevents. population accidents or because of other problems then it's really the money to the state that was the main cause of death and today of course the creditors have taken over the state is the democratic party's donor class well three. that you have a an inversion of the old original a bronze age. recovery program plain slate's you say that is inexorable we're not going to cancel the deaths we are only going to bail out the creditors and enable them to essentially reduce the rest of the population to bondage where all of the income all the economic surplus is paid for debt service not for tangible investment not for rising living standards and that basically

what we're hearing today has been again and again all the way from babylonia to the near east the billy poems to cruising rome and to the byzantine empire you know i. don't see it as often as i but i used to say this phrase a lot what would jesus do and now is maybe a bumper sticker or something what would jesus do so let's go back to two thousand and eight for a second the global financial crisis new president barack obama he's got a decision to make balance out the tatters or battle out the creditors some by the standard a year talking about the historical standard their religious standard the christian standard the jesus standard jesus would have done the exact opposite to up. obama did michael or what obama did really he said who am i going to do my campaign contributors on wall street irby are the people who voted for me and he said look i

represent my campaign contributors and he invited them to the well to the white house invited the leading wall street people and said look i'm the only guy standing between you and the horse you know i'm going to i don't worry i'm on your side and we know that he repeated that two days ago at mccain's funeral he said mccain and i have no difference in policy at all well here is mccain one of the. five who backed the savings and loan ripoff by charles keating and pressured alan greenspan not the prosecute not to are regulate the savings and loans you have very clearly obama on the side of the creditors and. the. difference between and where he is today is the creditors normally use political assassination of almost every leading her advocate

all the way from. russia brothers in rome to julius caesar who took the populist out protester say well today the creditor classing it as they are and show way and argentina and third row countries it hasn't done there in the united states yet because there really isn't any discussion either in the religious community or on the lefte pressure realizing that the dynamic that's making people poor is primarily financial it's debt it's the financial systems. just dysfunctional relationship. not the old fashion the only industrialists are wearing the workers well of course where persians exploit the workers but now they move to peru. or and workers again it's largely a financial driven austerity program. already so you know jesus

a lot of buildout would have cancelled the debts. written off the bat yes the german economic miracle. and said this is the economic miracle we're going to have only slight next creditors responsibility and loans the function of the banking system should be to serve the economy economy should serve the banking system and take over of the one percent growth most. right with dr michael hudson fantastic thanks for being on the kaiser report as always get your. writing well that's going to do it for this edition of the kaiser far with me max kaiser and stacey erbert like to thank our guest dr michael hudson his new book is going to be called and for give them their that's sounds like a must read for you i catch us on twitter it's kaiser report and i buy.

goods manufactured consent to public will. when the ruling classes protect them so. the price. we can all middle of the room sick. or my body told me that i belong with the born. my far from on line with. long with the girls. as dental surgery starts to be a very popular. football person's doctor. i was born

a male had a sex change when i was thirty years old. i've now been living as a woman for twenty eight years and i fully recall that this. problem should have gone away from by now but they hadn't so these surgeries are nothing more than plastic surgery i've had several female to male friends and you look at it and you just go oh god you paid her that it's horrible nobody can change genders is impossible. is delusional it's a mental illness. this is now where one of my bone and flesh of my flesh she shall be called woman pushy was taken out and then. in twenty forty you know bloody revolution of you to correct the demonstrations going from being relatively peaceful political protests to be creasing the violent

revolution is always spontaneous or is it just always i mean your list book video of neighborly as i do schooling you go to the former ukrainian president recalls the events of twenty fourteen. those who took part in it invested over five billion dollars to assist ukraine in these and other goals that will ensure a secure and prosperous and democratic. at the start of this in the coming on several days ago a rocket landed in front of my house my mom wife and three children died i remember how i called home no one picked up nine civilians were killed including three children when i retire a shell the christian villages. in serious problems. exactly seventeen years on from the worst terror trustee committed on u.s.

soil we report on how washington shifting its policy toward some extremist organizations these days. twenty two protestors dead after a suicide bomber attacks a demonstration against a local police chief in eastern afghanistan.