max you know i'm so excited to get to the second half because you interviewed michael hudson you already did that for us so we're so excited to get to that we're actually going to have this half quite short for the extended interview with dr michael hudson about debt and. of course he is an economist and a historian an economic historian and he has amazing stories but our history is being written today and that is turkey calls us wild wolves that was to abandon dollar in trade turkish president last sunday vowed and caro would pursue non-dollar transactions and trade with russia and other countries accusing the us of behaving like wild wolves he was encouraged to extend and talking to some entrepreneurs and business people and what he said exactly was quote america behaves like wild wolves don't believe them using the dollar only damages us we will not give up we will be victorious of course there's always famous last words but the fact is again this is something that we've been covering on kaiser for for years and signaling

a warning about that the end of the dollar the are hedging money around the world is. basically unlike previous empires through that debt through that channel of debt through the swift system through the u.s. dollar which is just an item of debt an iou so we've able we've been able to control the world through that we've had that power to force everybody to comply with that but as soon as you wield your power your power thus inevitably be begins to diminish because the hubris and joins the bum of the month club whether it's gadhafi said oh him they all said or get him out of the dollar they were going to price of oil in euros dollars bad hugo chavez is another bum of the month who got destroyed by the dollar the current guy who's ever running venezuela is going to get destroyed by the dollar look turkey started talking about the wolf the wild wolves of america. stop crying wolf grown grow a pair and

a dog crypto hard money real hard body oh that's right you're all paul paul paul paul paul paul paul paul well whatever swiss bank account you have in the way just go there and shut up well allegedly or maybe i made that up who cares it doesn't peanut who cares just go away shut up he is a member turkey is a member of nato and of course this he's backed up by the talk coming from germany as well germany is always in the middle of whatever empire is falling apart and a new one rising so we'll see what happens in that it's just a signal these are signals and perhaps like the others before him they'll just be destroyed but the big wildcard of course what most geopolitics and geo economics of the last twenty years is really about is the rise of china and you could kind of see that in two thousand we as

a nation gave up on our own people that's when you see all of the charts start to. fall apart for what wealth and income gap is what the ordinary worker made what sort of benefits we had we saw the escalation in debts related to education and health care the ordinary bottom ninety nine point nine percent of the population had to pay big time if they wanted any access because we think the police didn't care about us anymore so there is a question bloomberg dot com is again financial news and they're looking at it and they're asking does china have what it takes to be a superpower and they look at various aspects of it whether they have the financial power they have economic power the military power and the cultural power the soft power obviously they do not have the soft power that the u.s. does the u.s. has hollywood and there are very few other areas of the world that have something even remotely similar where they can project this you know amazing corowa story

about themselves but. in terms of regional they do see by two thousand and thirty that. it's bizarre to consider america a regional power in asia but they reckon by two thousand and thirty that china will definitely be the regional superpower and no longer be the u.s. in that area due to their military might china's military my and their economic might in the area and well so that therefore the u.s. they bloomberg projects will no longer be the regional power in asia so the other key question they look at is a lot whether it could be a superpower globally and they said that part of the problem is that their one child policy is about really the fact that they've had the one child policy for decades that they're no longer going to have. the workforce and part of the reason for the one belt one road policy is because of their absence of workforce but

because of that one by one road policy they now have economic interests in that sways of the world and this is a great chart to show this is the road part this is the maritime part and one of our guests on our podcast recently pointed out that this is all subject to sanctions right now pakistan turkey iran russia so those are all under u.s. sanctions as part of the one belt one road policy in china well look i mean china becomes of all when they put a man on the moon ok then american will take notice and they'll be like well with china there's a country called china what maybe we should get or you know you mentioned culture there and soft power and the character of a nation america if it's faced with an existential threat like china becoming a superpower will get its act together and like we did during the cold war after russia put up sputnik the u.s. landed on the moon that's why mention the moon and look if we have an existential

crisis coming down the path of guys like trump and other entrepreneurial you know leaders will mobilize the country and. i welcome this challenge because right now america doesn't have anybody else up there to play with you know kind of bored with it would be great if we had other superpower out there so here's what bloomberg says about that one belt road policy as a result of the one child policy both to boost the long term prospects of its own economy and to expand its influence china has embarked on what is probably the most ambitious foreign investment campaign in history presidencies belton road initiative extends from china to western europe and other parts of the world by land and sea it performs some of the functions of washington's large foreign aid budget but more than that it has the potential to create longer term revenue ties and dependencies even if china's leaders don't want to become the next global superpower the need to promote and protect such widespread investments could take them there so the fact that they have these investments unless the u.s. sanctions along that line there this is the most important because clearly that the

u.s. is not concerned about maritime power they know that they have all the aircraft landing carriers so they don't need to worry about that they don't need to sanction these countries that china's using the maritime they need to sanction all those countries and prevent that. that is an expensive for them project that's like a lot of money to sustain that's an empire that doesn't come cheap and guess what funds are right now u.s. dollars and guess who's got like two trillion three trillion china i guess you can turn off the spigot at any moment and put that country back and wonder is america so don't tell me that they're going to flake and conquer the world because a bunch of us squiggly lines go over the desert it's not going to happen well of course the maritime law is all about oil and energy is always the most important ingredient to become a superpower so it's quite interesting to look at this final headline here about electric vehicles because i think china has the ability unlike

a democracy like america to just act quick and with dictate dictate how things should be this is remarkable surging demand for electric vehicles global. sales of electric vehicles cracked the four hundred thousand barrier in the second quarter rising seventy seven percent from a year earlier to four hundred eleven thousand according to a report from bloomberg n.e.f. china with two hundred twenty five thousand units not only maintained its lead but outsold of the rest of the world combined europe accounted for twenty two percent of electric vehicle sales in the quarter with north america in one thousand percent so. you know this is an interesting thing to look at to watch moving forward because you need energy to become a global superpower what kind of like that subtext of a bloomberg said i don't really think china really want to be a global superpower i think they want to be a regional one but i don't they certainly don't want a reserve currency they don't want to replace the u.s. dollar with the un because they have

a huge population and an unruly population so why would they want to have to run the trade deficit and thus destroy their manufacturing base in a way that america has had to do in order to keep the dollar as a reserve currency right well you know more and more to come on this story obviously we don't know what their policies are but we can see their data we can see that they're there pivoting from oil they're pivoting from carbon they're they're they're fast introducing nuclear power solar wind geothermal there's pivoting away from anything that they could be contained yeah ok so you're saying that they can move quickly they have the ability to change direction in their economy because it's a top down system it's basically you know a very small qadri of powerful folks that run the entire country it's not really democracy is it but you know the other name for this would be industrial policy countries have industrial policies japan had an industrial policy it does so does

korea ok and they made them world beating manufacturers and and exporters. america has i think an ace up its sleeve in its one point six trillion dollar military budget in other words the leader of the united states can say you know what we're going to cut that in half and we're going to put seven hundred billion dollars to work tomorrow in doing a solar or a renewable energy projects now that fracking is dead and provably it's dead now the new york times said it was dead even though he said it was dead five years ago but now that they've the paper of record says is that so it's officially dead and you take that huge chunk of money and you say ok we're going to do solar we're going to do solar arrays across america we got huge desert you got a lot of sunshine are going to create a lot of energy renewable energy and we're going to take it into the twenty first century so again if china's going to wake in the monster of the beast the dragon the the american entrepreneurial spirit you know the u.s. economy is benefiting by the fact that people are so encouraged by trump that

consumer spending is up because they feel like this guy gives them confidence industrial production is up at things are booming here the latest figures from august is actually shows that. you know the economy is booming and so our stock markets they're coming coming to life they say they're responding they're responding to the existential threat is keeping over the parapet and well that is getting this thing getting getting prepared well let's look at the future by talking to the historian michael hudson in the second let's talk to dr michael hudson in the second half he know stuff don't go away much more coming your way. say that. what politicians do. they put themselves on the line they get accepted or rejected

. so when you want to be president. or somehow want to. have to go right to cross the saliva before three in the morning can't be good. i'm interested always in the waters in the house. or city hall. i've been saying the numbers mean something they matter the u.s. has over one trillion dollars in debt more than ten white collar crimes happen each day. eighty five percent of global wealth you longs to the ultra rich eight point six percent market saw thirty percent rise last year some with four hundred to five hundred three per second per second and bitcoin rose to twenty thousand dollars. china is building a two point one billion dollar a i industrial park but don't let the numbers overwhelm. the only numbers you need

to remember is one one business shows you can afford to miss the one and only. prosecution will need to become almost. a soft desire to take on where you push. the threshold finds somebody known to seem to i mean yeah i mean i mean political pressure on that god you've concluded to secure a dentist who knows what opponents bundled up business models he was my american corporations. he's sold all good mental diseases and. you can choose to see a man who was seen. since. he's on the dissociation. i knew could he so sometimes it is just somebody who to be. an investigative documentary. ghost war.

welcome back to the kaiser report i basked eyes are time now to turn to michael hudson author of many books including his next one out this of amber it's called quote and forgive them their debts ok michael hudson welcome back to be here all right michael your new book has a very long time lakshmi it's called and forgive them their debts lending foreclosure and redemption from the bronze age finance to the jubilee year you have said debts that cannot be repaid will not be repaid tell us about jubilees when did they start and what are they look like. well i began to write a history of debt cancellations almost forty years ago. in the process i got all

the way back sooner and babylonia and the little times and joined the harvard faculty as an babylonian our reality. is about a museum which are the center of all of the department and i realized that amazing as it seems nobody has written a history of debt in the world so i am part of a three volume work but this is the first volume and it deals with how originated in the bronze age in mesopotamia and how every ruler of summer and behold when they take the throne their first act would be to proclaim a clean slate made cancel the debts liberate people who were imposed sunk into bondage for debt and they redistribute land that was. foreclosed on by predators in other words or the babylonian rulers would do a morality in is group so marion's in the third millennium

a morality in the babylonians and the second millennium were exactly what the the jews took over judaism took over in the first millennium when the exiled jews returned from babylon yet into. into today yet and. applied this three point. as the jubilee year and they wrote it into the very core of leviticus into the core mosaic law and that became the whole they rewrote the whole history of the old testament is a struggle between better and creditor interests kings by the first millennium no longer enslin that. not only am i. i wish lands but in the mediterranean they want over to the side of all of our. creditors and so it

was the written religious leaders the cancelation out of the hands of us. at the center of that basic religion and this was the case by the time of jesus and we know now that these roles. the whole told her own is a. cancellation was a popular rusher opposed by the leading jewish rabbi such as well who introduced rose will saying we waive all the rights under. cancel. this is what jesus. spoke about in the very first sermon that he gave. this. one to the temple unroll the role of isaiah and where i was a zero point and solution the year of the lord jubilee year and jesus said i

proclaim the jubilee year and. this prophecy and luke says it all around and. in his home town or it gave. the sermon got angry at him. and started a whole. political fight between creditor interests that gain control of the jewish church and jesus said wait a minute this is i want to restore the original judaism. and. law and we all know how it ended he was put to death not because he was talking about rescuing people from zen's but rescuing people from that and there were. sin and death are the same because in our language. the word for debt

was originally the main thing that deaths were taken up or to pay for having committed a sin namely personal injury but we know in indo-european culture a very go when somebody or injuring them in an arm or whatever this idea of sin is that jesus general who's in the is there any which were yes in general so what i ended up doing is really not only history and solutions and how they end up being what the general philosophy was all the way babylonia through today in israel but also the history of how debt cancellation with woman in their religion and in the key religious waiting all the way down through the byzantine. right now you talk about how people get ended that . usually you know the catastrophic things happen illnesses happen people get into

debt and then you have a debt jubilee as the slate is wiped clean and the economies are restarted i know when i was living in france the new president i believe or the new mayor of paris whenever they got elected they would forgive all parking tickets you know this was kind of a continuation of this thing but at that very question though dr michael hudson is that we we seem to have transitioned to an era where we're no longer believe in debt to believe but we have what i guess you could call it a credit jubilee in other words in the two thousand and eight crisis that was a debt driven crisis the policy to come back and address that was not to forgive the debts but to balance out the creditors is this an historic change have we seen this historic lee ever seen it before and is. a dangerous precedent because the debt to believe the same the work for thousands of years this is something kind of . what are your thoughts well already and in antiquity you had other creditor is.

the wealthy classes saying that what is sacred is not cancelling their debts but in forcing their payments and already by the fourth century in athens jurors and marriage throughout greece or a lot of to take an oath not to an act any policy that would cancel the debts or redistribute the land and so already way back then. the question was what's going to be sacred creditor interests that lead to bankrupt in society and pushing it in a certain order and. for the most of the population at large. in order to keep them from falling at the bondage so that if you look at modern mainstream histories of recent rome they say western civilization is founded and differs from all other said earlier civilizations where the sanctity of property

what they mean the sanctity of property is really the sanctity of debt and the right of creditors to foreclose on the property of the population at large to foreclose on the state and to really take over the entire economy so you could say that western civilization was founded on that and having led the surf them and take you away and it's the same dynamic that. we're going at today reducing the population ascension later in age where and that's the relevance of the study of and quick what led to the abolition then is the tendency of debt to grow more rapidly than the ability to pay that people fell into debt not only because they were sick and had to borrow so many percent that somebody who only. we're not borrowing at all they were texas arrears your parking friends. most of the deaths

are unpaid taxes because of the crop failure that prevents. population and taxes or because of other problems then it's really the money to the state that was the main cause of death and today of course the creditors have taken over the state is the democratic party's donor class well three. that you have a an inversion of the old original bronze age. recovery program plain slate's you say is inexorable we're not going to cancel the deaths we are only going to bail out our creditors and enable them to essentially reduce the rest of the population to bondage for all of the income all the economic surplus is paid for debt service not for tangible investment not for rising living

standards and that basically what we're hearing today has been again and again all the way from babylonia to the near east the billy poems to greasing rome and to the byzantine empire you know i. don't see it as often as i but i used to say this phrase a lot what would jesus do now is maybe a bumper sticker or something what would jesus do so let's go back to two thousand and eight for a second the global financial crisis new president barack obama he's got a decision to make bal out the tatters or battle out the creditors some by the standard that you're talking about the historical standard their religious standard the christian standard the jesus standard jesus would have done the exact opposite to up. obama did michael or what obama did really he said who am i going to do my campaign contributors on wall street irby are the people who voted for me and he

said look i represent my campaign contributors and he invited them to the well to the white house invited the leading wall street people and said look i'm the only guy standing between you and that you know i'm going to i don't worry i'm on your side and we know that he repeated that two days ago at mccain's funeral he said mccain and i have no difference in policy at all well here is mccain one of the. five who backed the savings and loan ripoff by charles keating and pressured alan greenspan not the prosecute not to our regulate the savings and loans you you have very clearly obama on the side of the creditors and. the. difference between what he has today as the creditors normally use political assassination of almost every leading her advocate all

the way from. russia brothers in rome to julius caesar who took a populist programmer say well today the predator class when he does that show a and argentina and third row country that hasn't been there in the united states yet because there really isn't any discussion either in the religious community or on the left. realizing that the dynamic that's making people poor is primarily financial it's debt if the financial systems are just dysfunctional relationship or. not the old fashioned the only industrialists are welding the workers well of course where persians exploit the workers but now they move to peru. or and. again it's largely a financial driven austerity program. already so you know jesus

a lot of buildout would have cancelled the debts and written the written off a bit like the german economic miracle. and said this is the economic miracle we're going to have only slight next creditors responsibility and loans let function of the banking system should be to serve the economy economy should serve the banking system and take over a one percent growth most. right with dr michael hudson fantastic thanks for being on the kaiser report as always get your. writing well that's going to do it for this edition of the kaiser far with me max kaiser and stacey erbert like to thank our guest dr michael hudson his new book is going to be called and forgive them their debts sounds like a must read i catch us on twitter it's kaiser report and i stopped by.

or my body told me that i belong with the board. my thoughts my mind was. along with the girls. to be ready for. football person. i was born a male had a sex change when i was thirty years old. i've now been living as a woman for twenty eight years and i fully regret this. should have gone away from by now but they hadn't so these surgeries are nothing more than plastic surgery i've had several female to male friends and you look at it and you just go oh god you paid for that. horrible nobody can change genders is impossible. is delusional it's

a mental illness. this is now one of my bones from flesh of my flesh she shall be called woman for she was taken out. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy confrontation let it be an arms race in this spearing dramatic development that only mostly i'm going to resist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical time to sit down and talk. i mean you know more.

or no. not at all. several days ago landed in front of my house my mom wife and three children died i remember how i called home no one picked nine civilians being killed including three children after a terrorist show the christian religion series i'm a province. a suicide bombing else was killed thirty two at a rally in afghanistan against a local police chief while the twin blasts in the same province targeted school go as during morning rush hour. and bird beethoven sexism at the highest level of tennis continues to rage today following serena williams.