i am max keiser this is the kaiser report navigating the we board of your mind oh this is an s. . i must be stacey. max you know i'm so excited to get to the second half because you interviewed michael hudson you already did that for us so we're so excited to get to that we're actually going to have this half quite short for the extended interview with dr michael hudson about debt i can tell you something. of course he is an economist and a historian an economic historian and he has amazing stories but our history is being written today and that is turkey calls us wild wolves that was to abandon dollar in trade turkish president last sunday vowed and karo would pursue non-dollar transactions and trade with russia and other countries accusing the us of behaving like wild wolves he was encouraged to extend and talking to some entrepreneurs and businesspeople and what he said exactly was quote america behaves like wild wolves don't believe them using the dollar only damages us we will not

give up we will be victorious of course there's always famous last words but the fact is again this is something that we've been covering on kaiser for for years and signaling a warning about that the end of the dollar the are hedging money around the world is. basically unlike previous empires through that debt through that channel of debt through this with a system through the u.s. dollar which is just an item of debt an iou so we've able we've been able to control the world through that we've had that power to force everybody to compile of that but as soon as you wield your power your power thus inevitably be begins to diminish because the hubris and joins the bum of the month club whether it's gadhafi said oh him they all said we're getting out of the dollar and we're going to price oil and euro's dollars bad here goes another bum of the month who got

destroyed by the dollar the current guy who's ever running venezuela is going to get destroyed by the dollar look turkey talking about the wolf the wild wolves of america stop crying wolf. grown grow a pair and a dog crypto hard money real hard body oh that's right you're all talk paul paul paul paul paul paul well whatever swiss bank account you have in the way just go there and shut up well allegedly or maybe i made that up who cares at this moment peanut who cares just go away and shut up he is a member of turkey is a member of nato and of course this he's backed up by the talk coming from germany as well germany is always in the middle of whatever empire is falling apart and a new one rising so we'll see what happens in that it's just a signal these are signals and perhaps like the others before him they'll just be

destroyed but the big wildcard of course what most geopolitics and geo economics of the last twenty years is really about is the rise of china and you could kind of see that in two thousand we as a nation gave up on our own people that's when you see all of the charts start to. fall apart for what wealth and income gap is what the ordinary worker made what sort of benefits we had we saw the escalation in debts related to education and health care the ordinary bottom ninety nine point nine percent of the population had to pay big time if they wanted any access because we didn't the police didn't care about us anymore so there is a question bloomberg dot com is again financial news and they're looking at it and they're asking does china have what it takes to be a superpower and they look at various aspects of it whether they have the financial power they have economic power the military power and the cultural power the soft

power obviously they do not have the soft power that the u.s. does the u.s. has hollywood and there are very few other areas of the world that have something even remotely similar where they can project this you know amazing corowa story about themselves but. in terms of regional they do see by two thousand and thirty that. it's bizarre to consider america a regional power in asia but they reckon by two thousand and thirty that china will definitely be the regional superpower and no longer be the u.s. in that area due to their military might china's military my and their economic might in the area and well so that therefore the u.s. they bloomberg projects will no longer be the regional power in asia so the other key question they look at is a lot whether it could be a superpower globally and they said that part of the problem is that their one child policy is about really the fact that they've had the one child policy for

decades that they're no longer going to have. the workforce and part of the reason for the one belt one road policy is because of their absence of workforce but because of that one belt one road policy they now have economic interests in that sways of the world and this is a great chart to show this is the road part this is the maritime part and one of our guests on our podcast recently pointed out that this is all subject to sanctions right now pakistan turkey iran russia so those are all under u.s. sanctions as part of the one belt one road policy in china well look i mean china becomes of all when they put a man on the moon ok then american will take notice and they'll be like well with china there's a country called china what maybe we should get or you know you mentioned culture there and soft power and the character of a nation america if it's faced with an existential threat like china becoming

a superpower will get its act together and like we did during the cold war after russia put up sputnik the u.s. landed on the moon that's why mention the moon and look if we have an existential crisis coming down the path of guys like trump and other entrepreneurial you know leaders will mobilize the country and. i won't come this challenge because right now america doesn't have anybody else up there to play with you know kind of bored with it would be great if we had another superpower out there so here's what bloomberg says about that one belts one road policy as a result of the one child policy both to boost the long term prospects of its own economy and to expand its influence china has embarked on what is probably the most ambitious foreign investment campaign in history presidencies belt and road initiative extends from china to western europe and other parts of the world by land and sea it performs some of the functions of washington's large foreign aid budget but more than that it has the potential to create longer term revenue ties and dependencies even if china's leaders don't want to become the next global

superpower the need to promote and protect such widespread investments could take them there so the fact that they have these investments on less the u.s. sanctions along that line there and this is the most important because clearly that the u.s. is not concerned about maritime power they know that they have all the aircraft landing carriers so they don't need to worry about that they don't need to sanction these countries that china's using the maritime they need to sanction all those countries and prevent that. that is an expensive for them project that's like a lot of money to sustain that's an empire that doesn't come cheap and guess what funds that right now u.s. dollars and this is got like two trillion three trillion china guess you can turn off the spigot at any moment and put that country back in later is america so don't tell me that they're going to flick and conquer the world because a bunch of us quickly lines going over the desert it's not going to happen well of course the maritime law is all about oil and energy is always the most important

ingredient to become a superpower so it's quite interesting to look at this final headline here about electric vehicles because i think china has the ability unlike a democracy like america to just act quick and with dictate dictate how things should be this is remarkable surging demand for electric vehicles global. sales of electric vehicles cracked the four hundred thousand barrier in the second quarter rising seventy seven percent from a year earlier to four hundred eleven thousand according to a report from bloomberg n.e.f. china with two hundred twenty five thousand units not only maintained its lead but outsold of the rest of the world combined europe accounted for twenty two percent of electric vehicle sales in the quarter with north america and nineteen percent so . you know this is an interesting thing to look at to watch moving forward because you need energy to become a global superpower what kind of like that subtext of

a bloomberg said i don't really think china really want to be a global superpower i think they want to be a regional one but i don't they certainly don't want a reserve currency they don't want to replace the u.s. dollar with the un because they have a huge population and an unruly population so why would they want to have to run the trade deficit and thus destroy their manufacturing base in a way that america has had to do in order to keep the dollar as a reserve currency right well you know more and more to come on this story obviously we don't know what their policies are but we can see their data we can see that they're there pivoting from oil they're pivoting from carbon they're they're they're fast introducing nuclear power solar wind geothermal there's pivoting away from anything that they could be contained yeah ok so you're saying that they can move quickly they have the ability to change direction in their economy because it's a top down system it's basically you know

a very small qadri of powerful folks that run the entire country it's not really democracy is it but you know the other name for this would be industrial policy countries have industrial policies japan had an industrial policy it does so does korea ok and they made them world beating manufacturers and and exporters. america has i think an ace up its sleeve in its one point six trillion dollar military budget in other words the leader of the united states can say you know what we're going to cut that in half and we're going to put seven hundred billion dollars to work tomorrow in doing a solar or a renewable energy projects now that fracking is dead and provably it's dead now the new york times said it was dead even though he said it was dead five years ago but now that they've the paper of record says is that so it's officially dead and you take that huge chunk of money and you say ok we're going to do solar we're going to do solar arrays across america we got huge desert you got a lot of sunshine are going to create a lot of energy renewable energy and we're going to take it into the twenty first

century so again if china's going to wake in the monster of the beast the dragon the the american entrepreneurial spirit you know the u.s. economy is benefiting by the fact that people are so encouraged by trump that consumer spending is up because they feel like this guy gives them confidence industrial production is up at things are booming here the latest figures from august is actually shows that up you know the economy is booming and so our stock markets they're coming coming to life they say they're responding they're responding to the existential threat is keeping over the parapet and well that is getting this thing getting getting prepared well let's look at the future by talking to the historian michael hudson in the second let's talk to dr michael hudson of the second half he know stuff. don't go away much more coming your way. say that.

fearing into the abyss the syrian arab army is determined to liberate did live and to eliminate the terrorists they are essential in ending this international proxy more the us and its regional allies are dead set against this why is the trumping ministration siding with parents. politicians to do something illegal. they put themselves on the line to get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president. or somehow want to. have to go right to be cross it's like the local tree in the morning can't be good . i'm interested always in the waters of the holocaust. question. prosecution will need to become almost. a full design. where you

push us off the thread you'll find somebody number one plus you do i mean yeah i'm yasmeen political pressure on the god you've been to the moon concludes on earth security jenison knows where the new bundled up business models he was my american corporations doubtless was incomplete please sold them good mental disease as you use teaching shows on the scene. the solution. lies up an association. that i knew could he saw as it is just somebody with deleting data and investigative documentary. ghost war on oxy.

welcome back to the cars report i'm asking hazards i'm about to turn to michael hudson author of many books including his next one out this of amber it's called quote end for give them their debt ok michael hudson welcome back good to be here all right michael your new book has a very long title actually it's called and forgive them their debts lending foreclosure and redemption from the bronze age finance to the jubilee year you have said debts that cannot be repaid will not be repaid tell us about jubilees why did they start and what do they look like. well i began to write a history of cancellations almost forty years ago. in the process i got all the way back sooner and babylonia and the little times and joined the harvard faculty as an babylonian archaeology. about a museum which are the center of all of the department and i realized that amazing

as it seems nobody's written history of debt in the world so i am part of a three volume work but this is the first volume and it deals with how bet originated in the bronze age in mesopotamia and how every ruler of summer and babylonia when they take the throne their first stack would be their proclaim a clean slate made cancel the debts liberate people who were imposed sunk into bondage for debt and they redistribute land that was. foreclosed on by predators in other words what the babylonian rulers would do a morality in is true so marion's in the third millennium be in the babylonians and the second millennium were exactly what the the jews took over judaism took over in the first millennium when the exiled jews returned from

babylon yet into. into your day yet and. applied this three point. as the jubilee year and they wrote it into the very core of leviticus into the core mosaic law and that became the whole they rewrote the whole history of the old testament is a struggle between better and creditor interests kings by the first millennium no longer insolent that they not only end. wish lands but in the mediterranean they went over to the side of the aisle of our. creditors and so it was the written religious leaders cancellation out of the hands of us. at the center of the basic religion and this was the case by the time of jesus and

we know now that cease rolls. the whole told your own. that cancellation was a popular rusher opposed by the leading jewish rabbi such as well who introduced rose well as saying we waive all the rights under. cancel. this is what jesus. spoke about in the very first sermon that he gave. this. one to the temple unroll the role of isaiah and where i was a zero point four zero debt and solution the year of the lord jubilee year and jesus said i am to proclaim the jubilee year and well this prophecy and luke says the people around him and. in his own where it gave.

the sermon got angry at him. and started a whole. political fight between creditor interests that gain control of the jewish church and jesus who said wait a minute this is i want to restore the original judaism. and. law and we all know how it ended he was put to death not because he was talking about rescuing people from zen's but rescuing people from that and they were. sin and death are the same because in our language. the word for debt was originally the main thing that deaths were taken up or to pay for having committed a sin namely personal injury we know in indo-european oh sure the very go when somebody or injuring them you know arm or whatever this idea of

sin is that jesus general who's in the is there any which were yes in general so what i ended up doing is really not only history and solutions and how they end me and what the general philosophy was all the way sooner in babylonia through today in israel but also the history of how debt cancellation with woman in the religion and in the key religious waiting all the way down through the byzantine book right now you talk about how people get ended that. usually you know the catastrophic things happen illnesses happen people get into debt and then you have these debt jubilee as the slate is wiped clean and the economies are restarted i know when i was living in france the new president i believe or the new mayor of paris whenever they got elected they would forgive all

parking tickets you know this was kind of a continuation of the same but at the big question though dr michael hudson is that we we seem to have transitioned to an era where we're no longer believe in debt to believe but we have what i guess you could call it a credit jubilee other words in the two thousand and eight crisis that was a debt driven crisis the policy to come back and address that was not to forgive the debts but to balance out the creditors is this an historic change have we seen the psystar clee ever seen it before and is. a dangerous precedent because the debt to believe the same the work for thousands of years this is something kind of. what are your thoughts well already and in integrity you had other creditor is like are the wealthy classes saying that what is sacred is not cancelling their debts but in forcing their payments and already by the fourth century in athens jurors and

marriage throughout greece or a lot of to take an oath not to an act any policy that will cancel the debts or redistribute the land and so already way back then. the question was what's going to be sacred creditor interests that lead to bankrupt in society and pushing it in a certain order and. over most of the population at large. in order to keep them from falling at the bondage so that if you look at modern mainstream history said recently rome they say western civilization is founded and differs from all other said earlier civilizations where the sanctity of property what they mean the sanctity of property is really the sanctity of debt and the right of creditors to foreclose on the property of the population at large to foreclose on the state and to really take over the entire economy so you could say

that western civilization is founded on that and having led the surf them and take you away and it's the same dynamic that you've got this row we're going out today reducing the population ascension late in age where and that's the relevance of the study of and quick what led to you to listen then is that tendency of debt to grow more rapidly than the ability to pay that people fell into debt not only because they were sick and had to borrow so many percent of the debts and babylonian. we're not borrowing at all they were tax the rear your parking friends. most of the deaths are unpaid taxes because of the crop failure that prevents. population accidents or because of other problems then it's really the money to the state that was the main cause of death and today of course the creditors have taken over the

state is the democratic party's donor class well three. that you have a an inversion of the old original a bronze age. recovery program plain slate's you say that is inexorable we're not going to cancel deaths we are only going to bail out our creditors and enable them to essential a reduce the rest of the population to bondage for all of the income all the economic surplus is paid for debt service not for answerable investment not for rising living standards and that basically what we're hearing today has been again and again all the way from babylonia to the near east the billy poems to cruising rome and to the byzantine empire you know i.

don't see it as often as i am but i have to say this phrase a lot what would jesus do you know is maybe a bumper sticker or something what would jesus do so let's go back to two thousand and eight for a second the global financial crisis new president barack obama he's got a decision to make balance out the tatters or battle out the creditors some by the standard a year talking about the historical standard their religious standard the christian standard the jesus standard jesus would have done the exact opposite to up. obama did michael or what obama did really he said who am i going to do my campaign contributors on wall street irby are the people who voted for me and he said look i represent my campaign contributors and he invited them to the well of to the white house invited the leading wall street people and said look i'm the only guy standing between you and the forest you know i'm going to i don't worry i'm on your

side and we know that he repeated that two days ago at mccain's funeral he said mccain and i have no difference in policy at all well here is mccain one of the. five who backed the savings and loan ripoff by charles keating and pressured alan greenspan not the prosecute not to our regulate the savings loans you have very clearly obama on the side of the creditors and. the. difference between and where he is today is the creditors normally use political assassination of almost every leading her advocate all the way from. russia brothers in rome to julius caesar who took a populist protester say well today the creditor classing it as they are and

show way and argentina and third row countries it hasn't done there in the united states yet because there really isn't any discussion either in the religious community or on the left. realizing that the dynamic that's making people poor is primarily financial it's debt it's the financial systems. just dysfunctional relationship. not the old fashioned the only industrialists are welding the workers well of course we're pretty sure is exploiting workers but now they moved her. or and workers again it's largely a financial driven austerity program. already so you know jesus would have build out would have cancelled the debts and written them written off the bit like the german economic miracle. and said this is the economic miracle we're going to have a clean slate next creditors responsibility. loans luncheon of

the banking system should be to serve the economy economy should serve the banking system and take over a one percent growth most. right with dr michael it's a fantastic thanks for being on the kaiser report always get your. writing well that's going to do it for this edition of the kaiser far with me max kaiser and stacey erbert like to thank our guest dr michael hudson his new book is going to be called and forgive them their debts sounds like a must read guy catch us on twitter it's guys report. by. or my body told me that i belong with the board. my thoughts my

mind with. along with the girls. to be of any pro. football person. i was born a male had a sex change when i was thirty years old. i've now been living as a woman for twenty eight years and i fully recurrent this. problem should have gone away from by now but they hadn't so these surgeries are nothing more than plastic surgery i've had several female to male friends and you look at it and you just go god you paid for that. horrible nobody can change genders is impossible. is delusional it's a mental illness. this is now one of my bones and flesh of my flesh she shall be called woman for she was taken out.

in twenty four to you know bloody revolution to tikrit the demonstrations going from being relatively peaceful political protests to be creasing the violent revolution is always spontaneous or is it your style or here i mean you are liz put video through to me in the new bill is that i'm spoiling you go to the former ukrainian president recalls the events of twenty fourteen. of those who took part in this today over five billion dollars to assist ukraine in these and other goals that will ensure a secure and prosperous and democratic. i mean you know look.

i don't. look at. the final terrorist stronghold in syria sees the u.s. and russia out all day over al-qaeda affiliates there on the first three of the nine eleven attacks. coexistence.