hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle

peering into the abyss the syrian arab army is determined to liberate good lives and to eliminate the terrorists they are essentially ending this international proxy war the u.s. and its regional allies are dead set against this why it's the trumpet ministration siding with terrorists. across talking syria i'm joined by my guest adel darwish in london he's a political commentator and author of the book the edge of war in leeds we have seen shah he is a senior lecturer in middle east politics at the university of bradford and in beirut we have niamh solemn he is a professor of international affairs at notre dame university all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate let me go to the best dressed man on television adel darwish in london i love your bow ties. i don't explain something to be allowed in july of last. here

we had the american delegated to oversee dealing with the situation in syria direct and boy said the greatest concentration of terrorists in the world isn't it good and he identified them is al qaeda and associated groups now we have remarkable turn around in the last days and weeks is that no that the syrian government is warned not to liberate its own territory and not to apparently seemingly not to lay a finger on any wanted live how do you account for this major reversal i think it's a four letter word and it's called the iran but go ahead joe. well of course iran is a measure player and factor here. are you never really a subscriber to conspiracy theories but actually it looks to me like. become like a fix become like america and probably we in britain dragged.

things stand behind them there is actually managing the problem giving the problem and managing it like you have something you cannot eat consume we don't want to throw away so you freeze it. every area liberated by the city and out of our army we have seen insistence from america that the terrorists groups like about the most like. and others leave. and go to a concert they have now where will this terrorist go. if you're a rush i don't want them because most of them were actually were from chase now from other places nobody else won them and turkey of course doesn't want them although that in the beginning facilitated the supply of arms these famous stay with us for them and so on so keep them there until the problem is solved because if. liberated a there would be a lot bloodshed be that nobody wants them then as i said comes iran iran with

hezbollah as well and so yeah ok i get the point that but then why were these terrorists coddled funded salaried given arms i mean exactly exactly now nobody wants them i mean i read this piece of fiction by erda one in the wall street journal you gotta read this the world must stop assad i mean i've never seen such political friction written by a leader i mean he doesn't deal with everyone doesn't deal with how he's been part of this problem and directly to book a go ahead in leeds yaar. he said to me over the last two or three years any time that the syrian army and its allies managed to take all the regions there was an agreement for rebels and their families to move to a different region then i said to me over the last couple of years and live it has

been a very attractive distin a ships for a number of groups in particular. which is primarily made all the format kind of finances but what makes set at least important and is sufficiently sensitive for serious players in the civil war is not necessarily the concentration of the concentration or fifty's of rebels or different terrorists what it is to reform as you know it has a front with turkey and despite the hype that he has been a bit even an important player in the civil war over the last seven years these specific area these only region. today he can't clean is khan of controlling so this is the only one getting chip. it has it is

a conflict controlling decision and specifically for decision it has been able to be part and parcel. of the picture a very important power broker and we know that if we figured if he set of getting to get all the by deceiving and military and allies it can have serious consequences not only so you can do so it's a kind of a strategic vision but at the same time it can pave the way to another a refugee crisis that has already said he's not up at all let me get in my make me go to bed. route here i mean kind of a variation of the same question that i just asked i mean did anybody think about these things the law of unintended consequences i mean where these peaceful people are supposed to go i mean number one i think it every country in the world every government the world should say that they want to wash their hands and have nothing to do with these terrorists and it might be

a way to start negotiating ok but also saying with beirut i mean you know it seems to me that turkey is is really dirtying the waters here because it you know the everyone was just with rouhani in total and then now he comes out with this op ed in the in the wall street journal and it's very unclear what he wants to do and i'd like to correct i mean they're not controlling northern syria they're occupying and it is an illegal occupation no one in northern syria that i am aware of asked them to come in ok so how is the the turkey card playing in all this name in beirut where. it has been responsible for. the war seventy percent of the war on syria and the destruction of syria so. now it has opened its border with syria eight hundred sixty kilometers border with syria to terrorist groups from all kinds of companies perhaps more than eighty.

companies terrorists came. in. and was not a problem of syria so a mistake. primarily responsible for what is going on in syria as far as i buy a lot of that has to spread all over the company and those also that back the groups which is they collected from the muslim world and none of them order from europe as well and shipped them to syria now they are scratching their head and they don't know exactly what the heck they are. what we would like to do exactly know that they would be defeated yeah exactly they know they would be pretty good. ok. we're at we're getting close to the break and let me go to adel here del i mean i think your point your first point is really is perfect is spot on is that the u.s. and its regional allies including syria they want to freeze the status quo when it

comes to in the meantime i would point out the u.s. is attempting to establish some kind of semi-autonomous semi independent state in south in the north east which is really quite interesting here is and in the tone and tenor is that now it's all about iran it's not about it will be more and they don't want and they don't want any kind of semblance of a victory for assad because that would be a victory for russia go ahead and london yes i mean it's a cold war. or a mini cold war be afghanistan and he played all over again and the lesson of. which you yourself. stepped into would say. the think of the unintended consequences and three most important when russia intervened so years ago it had a strategy and the plan there was talk about actually dividing syria and to

different tones bought the strategy of russia to keep their geographical in dignity of syria not pro-us they don't care about that that's not going to be replaced the people of syria come bring another regime but it's actually keeping the graphic and figure if you have to if that's actually happened. america if you did not have a strategy would see that as a victory for russia if assad to remain is also a victim of iran because he is. and as well as for them as well and so on so establishing this sort of foothold american presence maybe some kurds will be exactly saw and that goes for that and then that's what turkey doesn't like the kurds but at the same prime is another book out author school water wars which actually was covered actually on russia with a few years ago there's a conflict of actually water between syria and iraq and turkey and that was

actually a long term animosity between the musk us and then there is also a border there is also natural gas an oil ok what we have one minute left i want to go back to of sheen here i mean does the u.s. have a long term strategy other then we're not going to leave that to what it seems to me. the problem with these said ministration is thirteen or there are a lot of mixed messages coming from washington about the grand con of foreign policy which is you know what it is it was only about five months or if you remember president trump said that once we have defeated there are leaks take going to resign from syria but only a short while ago some high ranking american military officials this stated that actually shittiest now have changed and he's no longer about getting

a nation or crisis we go into a state in stevia can is as long as the basically. iranian and hezbollah forces are still active in see if we're going to remain on a military presence and more importantly they have a stated that as long as there is no friendly regime which is acceptable to the syrian people and this little international community then east chase and justifications that american military well over here are going to go up we're going to go to a break here but ok all those late goals and demands we'll be waiting until hell freezes over for that to happen we're going to go to war breaking out about your break we'll continue our discussion on syria stay with aren't it.

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these two boards. with. these this is the. longest i've been done with the all business stop and it was listing of all the fun is up and describes in the fine. print. welcome back across the uk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing the situation in syria. let me go back to our guest in beirut ok we heard about the demands that the the u.s. those putting forward for syria after donald trump if you look through here the history of his tweets the syrian war was

a big mistake until he. president and we had to leave illegal airstrikes against syria because of alleged chemical weapons would probably waiting for another one of those but what about what syria once syria has it has russia and it has iran and the longer or the more elaborate the us administration strategy becomes the more and more it seems to me that the u.s. wants to stay in syria to determine any kind of peace settlement i don't see how it could happen if the u.s. remains there and u.s. policy of the iran and i think it's pretty universally recognized that everyone isn't in in ministration is a hock when it comes to iran go ahead in beirut where i believe that the united states foreign policy is very much directed by what is called of the united states as much as or anybody more than the president as such whoever is the president has been misled about obama when he became president. early on in his presidency and he

made his own beating speech talking about cooperation with the muslim world democracy i thought that i said that up and primarily emphasizing this point cooperation but what did going to finish it off mr obama bring about it. brought about the so-called arab spring actually support him at all. then muslim country and good thing bombs that been muslim countries keep going going keep. this was succeeded by mr trump mr trump in the year before he became president he was talking about he wants to stroll that troops from syria and from iraq cetera but once he became president histone change it what does this tell us is that that establishment the deep establishment in the united states has very much a strong. decision making. control over the policy of the united

states so for the past yet and they have mr trump instead of. diminishing u.s. troops and was growing u.s. troops from both syria and iraq he has been increasing the numbers particularly in syria the number of u.s. troops now in syria are about three thousand troops and that is better yet expressed by the trump administration mr bolton and other than mr bolton that they want but that syria based on the claim is that the whole new claim is of chemical weapon this is a farce. and mr trump clearly is into it so despite all of the things he said that he doesn't want war it seems that the recent the policy of the united states is coming again to emphasize that the u.s. will stay in northern syria and this was said yesterday by the prompt

administration that they were they are not going to withdraw from northern syria in fact the u.s. troops. which are located in about certain military camps and bases in northeastern syria east of the euphrates the area where is of the euphrates in syria is approximately. thirty to forty thousand square kilometer the end is smarter than three times bigger than my country levanon so and more than that this area is of those factors. to produce about three some of them three hundred thousand better of oil every day. it's an asset grab and well here i mean what i mean americans want everyone growing they want to be a spoiler they go on to syria to have the resources to rebuild that's how i see it once this conflict comes in exactly adel i mean i guess people don't remember the

cold war very well you know i keep hearing that newsrooms all over the world in the western world are run by twenty somethings you know and they like to play with social media all day long i remember the cold war pretty well and it was something we all worried about now you know seeing the u.s. in a very cavalier way saying not only are we going to i can't use that kind of a simple language of donald trump you know we're going to we're we're going to make it hurt you're going to syria hurt and everyone else on the russians only in the iranians as well or anyone else here that helps them ok very cavalier language he didn't use that during the cold war you know why and i almost never i almost never like to quote barack obama but you know elections have resulted in this is what's happening ok we have results here the american people voted against these foreign wars and now this is a promise broken go ahead. while the midterm election. for the congress is going ahead we have seen out of the competition between the two but

if you if we have because i was a reporter. during the cold war sixty's seventy's eighty's. in the cold war. moscow. london and washington. and. those. that were talking to each other. now what i'm one of them the absence of the first time. then we have a member of nato which is supporting one saw it which is the terrorists. and. most sort of sponsible way is actually the use of the military threat we have seen bolt on talking in that tough about something. that we buy. by president trump now

if they actually fire and then execute like when you have a corrupt a police man putting some drugs into someone how is he doesn't allow us to go on the wrist them. some stage. and actually use the military action against syrian military assets then it would be that proves my theory that the actually do do not want. to actually be got rid of these terrorist groups yeah i've seen you know we've done all the cold war yeah i mean i've seen but you know i mean i guess that you know for a lot of people in the u.s. watching this program what is the geopolitical. importance of it to the united states i mean it's never explained congress has never consulted you know and then you have this ongoing support of all on all different level support of terrorist groups like al qaeda in yemen and in syria here so i mean is

it what is the geo political importance of it is it just to be a spoiler because that's what it looks like to me go ahead and it looks like us oh let me go to your leave here let me get a little let me go to leeds go ahead of shape i don't think get your polluting the united states. in. but if you're talking about the north east region which is currently controlled by syria and democratic you know. then we can say you know yes the united states has some city interest i personally don't like to use historical terms historical turns because i believe that history never repeats itself but if you read it i have to insist using terms like the cold war perhaps we can assume that what you are beginning to see induce phase

to see in all what we see is kind of germany ficci shown to consume what they mean by germanic occasion if you do remember that just because of the second wall the country effectively was divided between two different spheres or influence i think. in one leader or another will go ahead what i do. it challenges the issues of the north east is not going to get their way it's not going to go away any time soon because the united states through the kurdish proxies he's a very much interest that to maintain a military prison there calms older indonesian and at the same time on the important players like russia and iran have already asserted that they are there. to work to a sig and effectively this is going to pave the way to what i would just sit on of

the german occasion of syria and these tensions are potentially can go on for many years even decades. ok so that that got your partners go back to beirut so i mean i remember this we were talking about this actually a couple years ago i was all more sinned in cement there's going to be a partition the brookings institution at this big plan and all that and of course that works for israel's interests but at the but this is not what the syrian people want i mean i think there's always a something that they have no they have no autonomy or. agency here i mean it seems to me if we look at what happened with aleppo remember it's going to be a humanitarian crisis catastrophe went on for months and months and months it was liberated and people came back to the city as a matter of fact the easter after the liberation of christians celebrated easter unlike you for so many years ok so i look at this hype in the media because that's all it is here and i agree with sheen their goal of this operation is going to go

forward to liberate go ahead in beirut. where clearly is american strategy. seeks to keep the conflict and the violence in syria festering first studying as long as possible. every area in syria that had terrorist groups the united states the western country britain and france they did all they could good in order to their own gape the presence of those two groups in those areas or was that in a little short of. a lot to be ourselves out of syria etc so the biggest concentration of terrorists now in syria is. there was there were more than forty thousand. and shipped from other parts of syria and took a look and there were about sort of sort of the five thousand terrorist station in the first place in so now that is

a big concentration of this terrorist and the united states would like to prefer that they be kept somehow in syria to cause the problem to the regime in syria and that's what took it also wants therefore there's a big hope plan now is to threaten certain the syrian government not to attack. and not to look at it. but the way i see it the clearly struggling. ok we're we're just to her mind said ok we're. ending the the terrorist rebel rule there i agree history doesn't repeat itself but it's a strong echo when you deal with these types of terrorist groups all the time we have many thanks to my guests and london leeds and in beirut and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t. see you next time and remember crosstalk.

you know world big partisan movie lot and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door on the bats and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now we're watching closely watching the hawks. in twenty forty you know bloody revolution hitting the demonstrations going from being relatively peaceful political protests to be increasingly violent revolution is always spontaneous or is it still oil here

i mean you are liz put the video put him in the new bill is that i mean you split needle the former ukrainian president recalls the events of twenty fourteen. those who took the lead in this to do over five billion dollars to assist ukraine in these and other goals that will ensure a secure and prosperous and democratic. egypt when among others. there are.

the u.s. and russia trade barbs over the syrian government's plan to retake rebel held province. coexistence with terrorists is impossible those are ruled branches of al qaida which we have been fighting since the terror attacks in two thousand and one . all we've seen are the actions of cowards interested in a bloody military conquest of it and a suicide bombing kills thirty two people at a rally in afghanistan against a local police chief while a twin blast in the same province targeted schoolgirl where during morning.