back in the ninety nine percent baghdad and its supporters were pretty open about wanting a schism a political schism a religious schism but i think president bush on cut deep change a tactic a little bit and he presents it as him striving towards the unity of the ukrainian faithful i'm sure you dislike it but don't you think that it's a clever tactic for him we certainly like the idea of the unity of the church and we certainly dislike schisms but the. schismatics and the canonical church. should go through. the process which we call repentance and that is not repentance in the sense. in which we use this word for example when we talk about personal life about morality and so on it's a canonical term the return of as much a group into as the body of the church. is done through the

recognition of the fault of the schism in this case it is actually the schism which is good and to be the basis for the outer surface church and it will not be recognized by the majority of the orthodox face while in the ukraine so it is on the one hand it is the desire for unity which is proclaimed as a hint it is impossibility to achieve this unity by these months that's what we usually call politics it's only applied to they really just fear now the constantinople patriarchate is determined to proceed it just dispatched you know it's an invoice to ukraine to prepare for the granting of autocephaly and i wonder if you could lead us through this process i wonder if there is any task that the church needs to pass in order to be recognized and in this particular case since we're dealing with different communities really. communities i mean are they

supposed to be united first or the constantinople petrarch it is going to issue this really just license and down do the church building later in order for a church to become autocephalous it should receive at promise a special document in which as this out of self really is proclaimed and is recognised now the canonical orthodox church in the ukraine did not ask for such a tours and even if it is given such a document it will not accept it. the promise of autocephaly can not be addressed to whom it may concern it is always addressed to a particular person who is in charge of a persecutor church so before granting of these terms of how to safely they need to find a person who will be considerate of the church there is no such person at the moment there are. groups each of which is headed by

a prosecutor person they are not in good relations with one another so even to unite of these two groups into one is already a problem so essentially we are talking about the granting of these other subtly to an idea of a ukrainian united to ukrainian church rather than the actual religious institution that is based on the ground well i'm not sure how i was a preacher kate of constantinople is going to proceed because i do not see any possibility of the moment. for the or so that of the ukraine being the united acceptance of such and they'd see it on the twenty they would even care about being united i think for the time being they're fine with whatever followers they have. well i think this separation is very deep it exists it has existed for already a quarter of a century and those are is always

a possibility to heal the schism. this needs a certain process last year in this the so-called key of filleted in the senate actually appealed to the. gate for recognition and also there were some words which can be interpreted as repentance so it could be a starting point for reconciliation but on the following day after this appeal he had to denounce all that he said in his letter addressed to the preacher of moscow and i suppose it was the ukrainian state which simply forbit him to go in this direction and instead insisted that he should go in the direction of constantinople now so much of this dispute is about politics and legal matters who has the right to do what to home but i want to ask you specifically about religious

values because depression government betrays itself as a neo liberal government which comes with a certain sound of values on same sex marriage on abortion on the rights of the fetus and so on. is that something that this new ukrainian church that is supposedly being built at the moment going to support doctrinally do you think there is enough support for that and more of the parishes in ukraine well i think certainly if this church is created on the basis of the schismatic groups it will. propagate the norms which will go in the direction of liberalizations of morality already we hear from the preacher kit of constantinople that they admit that the second marriage. for the clergy it is something which goes contrary to the canons of the communicable councils and it is something which will not be

accepted by any of the church so we already see of this kind of modern the liberal tendency in the preacher gate of concern to normal and they will not be surprised if the same tendencies we will also see in the so-called forced church once it is created by consent in opal in the ukraine and you mention repentance previously as a path to reconciliation but i've also heard the supporters of the ukrainian autocephaly advance. of pastoral care argument they they say that the people who belong to those breakaway a religious communities need to be put at the center of the process and that if they die now they are supposed to go to how but if their churches are recognised by the rest of the orthodox community that would allow them to impart divine grace and offer a path to salvation do you see any merit to that argument that people indeed should

be at the center of all of this the way you presented it is a little bit simplified the sitting there argument the matter is somewhat more complicated. very often when people hear about these disputes they only hear the words territory as if we dispute about a particular theory sorry but it is not the territory which matters but the people and. the pastoral care is what the church is about and what the church is for. but the problem with. the schism is in the church terms is something which is invalid for the bus to say that for example the sacraments. which are administered by the schismatics they are not valid because they are void of the divide of the divine grace and this is why we are equally concerned about the fate

of those who belong to the schismatic groups and we made many attempts to heal the wound but the problem with the political try to merge the purely ecclesiastical issue with their political interests and they intervene into internal life of the church not even of that process goes ahead be ukrainian orthodox church of the patriarch it is still going to be the largest religious institution in ukraine as you mentioned it has more than twelve thousand parishes and two hundred mana strace in that country what do you have to fear wouldn't true faith triumph anyway. the true face will triumph anyway but the true face may triumph in different ways for example. twenty. thirty is the true face trial through the feet of the martyrs the priests were killed

executed imprisoned the face will wear are treated in the same way as the churches were destroyed but the face trial because it was the age of them we fear that if. so it is proclaimed the ukrainian government will insist that all the orthodox truth belong to this new uniform unannounced let me stop you right here we have to take a very short break but we will be back in just a few moments. in twenty four you know bloody revolution. the demonstrations going to be relatively peaceful political protests to be freezing the violent revolution is always

spontaneous or is it you know we're here to put a premium list put video in the new bill is that i knew pulling needle the former ukrainian president recalls the events of twenty fourteen. billion dollars to assist ukraine in these and other it will ensure a secure and prosperous and democratic. lawmakers manufacture to send to public wealth. when the ruling classes to protect them. so. when the final merry go round be the one person. it's time to ignore middle of the room sick. i mean really

really. what politicians do you should do to. put themselves on the line they did accept the reject. so when you want to be president and sure. some people want. you to do right to be pro-choice that's what before three of them or can't be good . interested always in the waters of the house. there should be. two thirds of american host schools do not have five hundred dollars emergency care. as crazy. value population doesn't have money and your money maintaining thirteen aircraft carriers are on the move why why do you change

your policies and do something that is good for them when they can do and good for america in the long run. on. a practicing orthodox christian how thing the church to expand its role within the society what is the difference between how state political and religious matters a intertwined in russia and how they are mixed up in ukraine i can tell you what's the difference if for example president will decide. that all christians in the russian federation should belong to the russian orthodox church and if you would say that the roman catholic church in russia. is no longer welcome you should join the russian national church if you are petri what's then it will be

a clear intervention into the into the internal life or the church's or if for example prison put in would dictate who should be or who should we lived as bishops this will be the intervention such intervention is an image in the book. now both russia and ukraine trace their history from kievan rus reaches i thing an interesting title because it merges together the concepts of geography and identity and from moscow geography has always been transit and secondary but not so much for constantin opel and kia for consumption opel for example its whole supremacy claim is based on the fact that the orthodox christianity was born in geographic locale and i think the ukrainians advancing a similar argument that. christians christians were there before moscow was even found that and why should than it has it have any demeaning and over us what's

your response to that. should underline that there is nothing in the fully itself the russian orthodox church at some point was a part of the kit of constantinople them. it became an outer surface church and it didn't ask for their consent and opal permission then i didn't ask for the permission of constantinople because that the pitcher constance you know paul was in the union was wrong which according to the russian church was here is so the pitcher of consent in op was a hear a tick there was no one. to ask listen from. by itself there is nothing bad in the it but the problem for the ukraine currently is that it is not the ukrainian orthodox church of the united to crania north of the church with or

a no to safely it is that the majority of the orthodox faithful are against they want to stay united with the russian church but the schismatic groups on purely political grounds are asking for out a sinfully through which they want to legitimize themselves and. both all of you of constantinople seem to be responsive to those arguments up until a certain point of time what do you think changed in his understanding of the problem problem because as i mentioned before the this moment for an independent ukrainian church has been going on since they are early one nine ninety s but it is only now that he is all of a sudden change his mind on the issue it's not quite all of a sudden of course there was something which stopped him from decisive. moves actions and what is that this was the plan or so those council which was

supposed to take place in two thousand and sixteen. finally it turned out. to be not quite the pan course of the council because for georges did not participate including the russian or so the street just took it and i found is that where he was very offended and moreover he even believed he told this to me personally for example he even believed that it was the russian orthodox church which plotted with three churches not to go to this conversation if that was the case is that sufficient enough reason to authorize the kind of changes that we are discussing today which can cause a major schism within the whole orthodox community first of all. this was not the case. but he doesn't believe that this was not the case. secondly of course. this is not

a sufficient ground for in this let me i'm sorry for interrupting but do you think it's purely personal grievance that is driving such an amount to change it is not only purely personal grievance but there is this element and this element was very clear when i met was. also when peter grosz olu met with a preacher q it was very clear that he was personally wounded and that he was personally orphaned and that he blamed the russian orthodox church for. the lack of success in the council of crete now the relationship between a mosque in constantinople was never particularly small i think most external observers agree that there is a bit of a power contest going on between patriarch ariel who is for siding over the largest and the wealthiest orthodox congregation and pay chart bartholomew who oversees a relatively small parish in a predominantly muslim country and yet claims

a king manical or global powers do you indeed think there is a power contest going on between the two no i do not think so but i see from history i referred to the one nine hundred twenty s. when the kid of constantinople supported schism within the russian orthodox church and they see from history is that the patriarch of constantinople very often treat this relationship in this way when there was the russian orthodox church finds itself in a difficult situation instead of helping the church which one may expect from someone who pretends to be a coordinator of the interoffice that succeed it is so instead of helping. he does the sins which actually destroy the unity between the churches in the statement that the russian orthodox church issued in response to the consent of

decision lately it's used a very strong i would even say very irreverent language it's adjusted. the patriarch indeed wants to be as you say the orthodox spoke and that it will have to answer before god in history for this decision does the russian orthodox church recognise the ecumenical status of constantinople and if so does this reckon recognition dependent on the political decisions that. the leader of the current leader of consenting double takes we do not recognise in the primacy of jurisdiction. we recognise the primacy of warner which means the constant in opal. is first someone t. quill's in the family or source of the churches but he has no right to intrude into another church he has no right to intervene into the affairs of

churches he may if we wish chords in the sort on the conceive it is of falls or of the churches but it is we the churches who trust him with this rule and if he contrary to the opinion of the percy cuellar church we cannot accept is that the russian orthodox church also accused the constantinople patriarchate of wanting to start a war against the unity of the orthodox christian church and it said that if the ukrainian autocephaly is granted you're going to stop communicating communication of with with constantin ople by doing that one won't hear fact of li. fuel doubt or even more because you would effectively have to tie your cut your ties for. with other churches some of the churches have a have to decide whether to side with you or with constant within that make things even worse first of all we do not need to cut ties with other churches if we cut

ties with constantinople there are situations in which two churches are not in communion with one another but. are in communion with both of them and this is what is likely to happen but in canonical terms we will have no option because we cannot accept in the. such action on the part of constance in opal we will have to respond in this way and we are already a warrant several times. that this will be one of the consequences of his actions he's supposed to announce his final decision i mean in a formal way i think somewhere in the fall do you think it's also now are we already beyond the point of no return or do you still hope hold out hope that something may be decided in a mutually acceptable way. that's our many uncertainties in the entire project

because as i said the canonical church didn't ask for autocephaly that those kids might see groups are not in the union with one another and there is no clear perspective of even them being the united then there is a few here or for the so-called feel area who will not accept anything less then the church and their human speech or so there are many complications on the week. but we shall see how it goes well your eminence i really appreciate your time today thank you very much for answering our questions thank you i encourage our viewers to keep this conversation going in our social media pages and i hope to hear again same place same time here on all the part. barclaycard.

because the slowness of the blood of them so moving. to build your school board local was before. much of those who heard it's a preview of the most few other movies to see him will be north we will we'll. move the bulk move but it. will show you this new video of the live look i mean it's been a look or a good. movie muslim also has dulce will give you films for good girls. go to school so look i look at the same you believe it's good to go.

to startups to. get to meet until it was a little missed they'd say look it is it's. just ashton understands this new it's the mashed old truck to start to finish a complete speech from this project until. the three of producers proposed this were to snoop on little knew it because that was the girls who if you saw your supporters to your shoe station shouldn't fear you should cook dorothy was do you do the request to. join me every thursday on the alec side. well i'll be speaking to get a feel of the world of politics all this less i'm sure both of those.

ministries police forces and city administrations of many countries depend on one corporation that does what mike was hoping to avoid going on from when the president god i'm stumped on this was going to guns through the. woods as the good he got into the city at the best possible proprietary software you don't know the source code isn't that just such a security risk when you have a black box operating who probably go to microsoft's dependency puts governments on the cyber threat not only think office can put us in more than a week we'll sell facilities this sort of this is still being dishonest and we need one. more. thing to almost the whole the sooner all. of this the. real peace until this is the i still. hadn't done. the old vision stopping the war sustainable was a fund is up and these cards on the front. the

stories that we can tease editor in chief spoke exclusively to the two russians who were accused of poisoning. its sense much of the major many british politicians into overdrive as they called the men's claims. of the news terrorists filmed

a false flag chemical attack to send to the united nations and post online with the hope of discrediting the government of syria now but it's according to russia's military. also donald trump signs a new executive order to defend all few.