also to non-canonical groups which were called schismatic groups which are not recognized by any of the orthodox churches. it is this two schismatic groups which are supposed to constitute the basis on which constantine ople wants to be able to build this out of selfless church and it is a political project because it is a project instigated by as a current ukrainian political authorities they want to create a united church or for churches the canonical orthodox church the two schismatic groups and also the greek catholic church which belongs to the pope of rome this moment for an independent ukrainian church started back in the nineteen ninety s. and bags and its supporters are pretty open about wanting a schism a political schism a religious schism but i think present deep change a tactic a little bit and he presents it as him striving towards the unity of the ukrainian

faithful i'm sure you dislike it but don't you think that it's a clever tactic for him we certainly like the idea of the unity of the church and we certainly dislike schisms but the broken silly ation between schismatics and the canonical church. should go through. the process which we call repentance and that is not repentance in the sense. in which we use this word for example when we talk about personal life about morality and so on it's a canonical term the return of moscow and i suppose it was the ukrainian state which simply forbit him to go in this direction and instead insists that he should go in the direction of constantinople now. much of this

dispute is about politics and legal matters who has the right to do what to home but i wanted to ask you specifically about religious values because depression could government betrays itself as a neo liberal government which comes with a certain sound of values on same sex marriage on abortion on the rights of the fetus and so on. is that something that this new ukrainian church that is supposedly being built at the moment going to support doctrinally do you think there is enough support for that among the parishes in ukraine well i think certainly if this church is created on the basis of the schismatic groups it will. propagate the norms which will go into the ritual of liberalization of morality already we hear from the preacher accused of constantinople that. admit that this is the second marriage for the clergy it is something which goes contrary

to the canons of the communicable councils and it is something which will model be accepted by any of the church so we already see of this kind of modern liberal tendency in the page of the age of consent to normal and they will not be surprised if the same tendencies we will also see in the so-called church once it is created by consent in opal in the ukraine and you mention repentance previously as a path to reconciliation but i've also heard the supporters of the ukrainian autocephaly advance. of pastoral care argument they they say that the people who belong to those breakaway a religious communities need to be put at the center of the process and that if they die now they are supposed to go to how but if their churches are recognised by the rest of the orthodox community that's what. allow them to impart divine grace

and offer a path to salvation do you see any merit to that argument that people indeed should be at the center of all of this the way you presented it is a little bit simplified and they're sitting there argument the matter is somewhat more complicated. very often when people hear these disputes they only hear the words territory as if we dispute about particular theory sorry but it is not the territory which matters but the people and. the pastoral care is what the church is about and what the church is for. but it's a problem with. the schism is in the church terms is something which is invalid for the pastoral for example the sacraments which are administered by the schismatics they are not valid because they are void of the divide of the

divine grace and this is why we are equally concerned about the fate of those who belong to the schismatic groups and we made many attempts to heal this wound but the problem with the political try to merge the purely ecclesiastical issue with their political interests and they intervene into internal life of the church even of that process goes ahead be ukrainian orthodox church of the patriarch it is still going to be the largest religious institution in ukraine as you mentioned it has more than wealth thousand parishes and two hundred mana strace in that country what do you have to fear wouldn't true faith triumph anyway. the true face will triumph anyway but the true face may triumphant different ways for example in the ninth twenty's and in the one nine hundred thirty s.

the true face triumphed through the feet of the martyrs the priests were killed executed imprisoned the face for where treated in the same way as the churches were destroyed but the face trail because it was the age of martyrdom we fear that if this. so cold out of sefl is proclaimed the ukrainian government will insist that all the orse of the streets belong to this new uniform her chair i'm not a flag me stop you right here we have to take a very short break but we'll be back in just a few moments. you

know world of big partisan new law and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smart or we need to stop slamming the door on the back shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now we're watching closely for watch it will take control over major i'm on the streets like the chance like but. then of course the orthodox face will defend the sacred places so we can expect bloodshed and present person to house lots of power in that country but secondly that power is also limited. at least by the way he's presented in the western media one that be something that would constrain any. such

scenarios that you just laid out before us well if president. where are these type of more liberal secular police he wouldn't have intervened into the affairs of the church i cannot imagine for example president trump seeing or so that's in the miraca that you have to be united into one jurisdiction and it should be on the miracle church and there should be no preacher accused of moscow etc etc here in minutes your opponents will immediately are sponsored out by pointing to a pretty harmonious relationship that exists between the russian orthodox church and the russian state with president putin being a practicing orthodox christian how being the church to expand its role within the society what is the difference between how state political and religious matters and intertwined in russia and how they are mixed up in ukraine i can tell you

what's the difference if for example president putin would decide that all christians in the russian federation should belong to the russian orthodox church and if you would say that the roman catholic church in russia. is no longer welcome you should join the russian national church if you are petri what's then it will be a clear intervention into the into the internal life or the church's or if for example prison put in would dictate who should be or who should be left as bishops this will be the intervention such intervention is unimaginable. now both russia and ukraine trace their history from kievan rus reaches i thing an interesting title because it merges together the cons. of geography and it is not only purely personal grievance but him and and this element was very clear when mitt was

with and also with your birth all in a minute with a preacher a cutie you it was very clear that he was personally wounded and that he was personally orphaned and that he blamed the russian orthodox church for. the lack of success in the council of crete now the relationship but then i must go in constantinople it was never particularly small of i think most external observers agree that there is a bit of a power contest going on that's been paid care real who's presiding over the largest and the wealthiest orthodox congregation and pay chart bartholomew who oversees a relatively small parish in a predominantly muslim country and yet claims a commanding call or global powers do you indeed think there is a power contest going on between the two no i do not think so but i see from history i referred to the one nine hundred twenty s. when the kit of constantinople supported schism was in the russian orthodox church

and they see from history is that the patriarch of constantinople very often treat this relationship in this way when there was the russian orthodox church finds itself in a difficult situation instead of killed in the church which one may expect from someone who pretends to be. of the into or so that succeed it is so instead of helping he does the sins which actually destroy the unity between the churches in the statement that the russian orthodox church issued in response to the decision lately it used a very strong i would even say very irreverent language it's adjusted. the patriarch indeed wants to be as you say the orthodox bolt and that it will have to answer before god in history for this decision does the russian orthodox church

recognise the commanding status of constantinople and if so does this reckon recognition dependent on the political decisions that. the leader of the current leader of consenting double takes we do not recognize primacy of jurisdiction. we recognize the primacy of warner which means that the pitcher of constantinople. is first someone t. quills in the family of the horse of the churches but he has no right to intrude into another church he has no right to intervene into the affairs of churches he may if we wish cords in the certain the see if it is of all the orthodox churches but it is we the churches who trust him with this rule and if he

gets contrary to the opinion of the percy cuellar church we cannot accept that the russian orthodox church also accused the constantinople patriarchate of wanting to start a war against the unity of the orthodox christian church and it said that if the ukrainian autocephaly is granted you're going to stop communicating communication of with with constantin ople by doing that one won't hear factor of only. fuel that were even more because you would effectively have to tie your cut your ties with other churches some of the churches have to decide whether to side with you or with constant within that make things even worse first of all we do not need to cut ties with churches if we cut ties with constantinople there are situations in which two churches are not in communion with one another but. are in communion with both of them and this is what is likely to happen but in canonical terms we will

have no option because we cannot accept in the. such action on the part of constance in opal we will have to respond in this way and we are already a warrant several times. that this will be one of the can sequence of. he's supposed to announce his final decision i mean in a formal way i think somewhere in the fall do you think it's also now are we already beyond the point of no return or do you still hope hold out the hope that something may be decided in the mutually acceptable way. and sort of. project because. the nickel shores didn't ask for all to say for me that those groups are not in the union was one and. there is no clear perspective of them being united. fewer or for the so-called preacher

who will not accept and it's unclear as a church and the human speech or so there are many complications on the way. but we shall see how the dramatic development only. exists i will see you. will be successful very critical. to sit down and talk. in the stories that shaped the week now and he said to turn chief speaks exclusively to the to russian suspected by the u.k. the poisoning say against copal and his daughter the man's claims triggered a furious response in the k. and other smith as

a joke. the russian military claims terrorists in syria said live province have filmed a staged chemical attack and intend to frame the assad government. donald trump signs a new executive order aimed at protecting the us from foreign and action meddling that's.