suffer to the ukrainian church whatever it may be we'll discuss it now and i say to the ukrainian church keeping in mind that it is probably primarily a political process because if it were the politicians the state dept lobbied for that what do you make of this very tight association between state and religious affairs first of all i should explain what fully means because not everyone would understand how to sell fully in course of the tradition means independence the orthodox church unlike the roman catholic church consists of fully independent local churches they are not subordinate to one and there is no single he had of this church is except for jesus christ himself and here from what i understand the constantine ople church gay does claim divide of determining which church is supposed to be independent and which is not yes exactly as a pitcher of constantinople it's as if he were the pope for the course of the

church but it has not been the traditional source of the church to have such group and we do not recognize the rights of the preacher of concern to know pope to. carry bring you back to my initial question about constantinople granting arrived at all of ukraine not the ukrainian church but actually to ukraine as a state because this is what we actually discussing at this point of time ukraine does not have. a united religious organization that can claim that document for itself it's more a political necessity for the current elites what do you make of it and the reason i'm asking is because in most democratic liberal societies in that the separation between church and state is unquestionable and yet it's not the case for ukraine. in the ukraine there is one canonical ukrainian church it is the ukrainian orthodox

church. which is recognized by all orthodox churches as canonical it twelve thousand parishes more than two hundred monasteries and millions of. and there are also two non-canonical groups which were called schismatic groups which are not recognized by any of the orthodox churches. it is this schismatic groups which are supposed to constitute the basis on which constantine ople wants to be able to build this out of service church and it is a political project because it is a project instigated by as a current ukrainian political authorities they want to create a united church or for churches the canonical orthodox church the two schismatic

groups and also as the greek catholic church which belongs to the pope of rome this moment for an independent ukrainian church started back in the nineteen ninety s. and baghdad and its supporters are pretty open about wanting a schism a political schism a religious schism but i think present did change the tactic a little bit and he presents it as him striving towards the unity of the ukrainian faithful i'm sure you dislike it but don't you think that it's a clever tactic for him we certainly like the idea of the unity of the church and we certainly dislike schisms but the broken silly ation between schismatics and the canonical church. should go through. the process which we call repentance and it is not repentance in the sense. in which we use this word for example when we talk about. person alive for morality and so

on it's a canonical term the return of group into is the body of the church. is done through the recognition of the fault of the schism in this case it is actually the schism which is good and to be the basis for the outer surface church and it will not be recognized by the majority of the force of the will in the ukraine so it is on the one hand it is the desire for unity which is proclaimed ones as a hint it is impossibility to achieve this unity by these months that's what we usually call politics it's only applied to they really just fear now the constantinople patriarchate is determined to proceed it just dispatched you know it's an invoice to ukraine to prepare for the granting of a subtle and i wonder if you could lead us through this process i wonder if there is any task that the church needs to pass in order to be

a recognized and in this particular case since we're dealing with different communities religious communities i mean are they supposed to be united first or the constantinople petrarch it is going to issue this really just license and do the church building later in order for the church to become autocephalous it should receive a special document in which is this out of self really proclaimed and is recognized now as the canonical orthodox church in the ukraine did not ask for such a tours and even if it is given such a document it will not accept it. the promise of autocephaly can not be addressed to whom it may concern it is always addressed to a particular person who is in charge of a persecutor church so before a grand sings this homeless of out of several if they need to find

a person who will be considerate of the church there is no such person at the moment there are. groups each of which is headed by a pretty clear person they are not in good relations with one another so even to unite as these two groups into one is already a problem so essentially we are talking about the granting of these other subtly to an idea of a ukrainian united to ukrainian church rather than the actual religious institution that is based on the ground well i'm not sure how as a preacher kate of constantinople is going to proceed because i do not see any possibility of the moment. for the or so that of the ukraine being the united acceptance of such and on the twenty with even care about being united i think for the time being they're fine with whatever followers they have. well i think this separation is very deep it exists it has existed for already

a quarter of a century and those are it's always a possibility to heal the schism. this needs a certain process last year in the center of the so called key of filleted in the sense they actually appealed to the. gate for recognition and also there were some words which can be interpreted as repentance so it could be a starting point for reconciliation but on the following day after this appeal he had to denounce all that he said in his letter addressed to the pitcher of moscow and i suppose it was the ukrainian state which simply forbit him to go in this direction and instead insisted that he should go in the direction of constantinople now so much of this dispute is about politics and legal matters who

has the right to do what to home but i want to ask you specifically about religious values because depression can government to trace itself as a neo liberal government which comes with a certain sound of values on same sex marriage on abortion on the rights of the fetus and so on. is that something that this new ukrainian church that is supposedly being built at the moment going to support doctrinally do you think there is enough support for that and more of the parishes in ukraine well i think certainly if this church is created on the basis of the schismatic groups it will. propagate the norms which will go in the direction of liberalizations of morality already we hear from the preacher kid of consent you know pull that. admit that the second marriage. for as a clergy it is something which goes contrary to is the canons of the communicable

councils and it is something which will be accepted by. the church so will through the see of this kind of modern liberal tendency in the page of the age of consent to normal and they will not be surprised if the same tendencies we will also see in the so-called false church once it is created by consent in opal in the ukraine that you mention repentance previously as a path to reconciliation but i've also heard the supporters of the ukrainian autocephaly advance. of pastoral care argument they they say that the people who belong to those breakaway religious communities need to be put at the center of the process and that if they die now they are supposed to go to hell but if their churches are recognised by the rest of the off those community that's what allowed

them to impart divine grace all for a path to salvation do you see any merit to that argument that people indeed should be at the san. welcome back to worlds apart with metropolitan hilarion they have the foreign relations and the russian orthodox church your eminence just before the break you mentioned some of the concerns you how with regard to the security of the faithful in ukraine and president bush and co pledged on several occasions that the war shoppers s.o.c. at it with the boss paycheck it would be allowed to practice their religion freely he also promised there with the. hold on to their religious property this is also

enshrined in the ukrainian constitution why others sure insist and not enough for you well they're not enough for us because we hear that parallel to this assurances which we hear from president bush there are laws already on the table in the. supremum. council or the ukrainian state. which directs discrimination and marginalization of the ukrainian orthodox church one such law if accepted will presuppose that the ukrainian orthodox church should change its name and that it should be in the name to the russian orthodox church in the ukraine and that a big deal this is a big deal because it is something like putting the. hello. star on the jew in the in hitler's germany the year of the yellow star is

by itself a sacred symbol but your answer in all due respect i think the level of prosecution which exists in the ukraine is nowhere compared to what we witnessed during the nazi occupation of eastern europe nothin's but do you really think it's going in that direction i hope it will not go and is there action but if the church if a particular church she was a ukrainian orthodox church is. condemned as the church of the country aggressor. if. it is deprived of legal rights we can expect anything we can expect that. will take control over major monasteries like key were picturesque like but. then of course the orthodox faithful will defend the sacred places so we can expect

blood shit and present pressure has lots of power in that country but certainly that power is also limited. at least by the way he's presented in the western media wouldn't that be something that would constrain any. such scenarios that you just laid out before us well if president poroshenko with. these type of mordor and liberal secular police he wouldn't have intervened into the affairs of the church i cannot imagine for example president trump saying to the orthodox in the miraca that you have to be united into one jurisdiction and it should be in the miracle church and there should be no preacher accused of moscow it's a. your minutes your opponents with immediately are sponsored by pointing to

a pretty harmonious relationship that exists between the russian orthodox church and the russian state with president putin being a practicing orthodox christian how being the church to expand its role within the society what is the difference between how state political and religious matters and intertwined in russia and how they are mixed up in the ukraine i can tell you was the difference if for example president putin would decide that all christians in the russian federation should belong to the russian orthodox church and if you would say that the roman catholic church in russia. is no longer welcome you should join the russian national church if you are petri wants them it will be a clear intervention into the into the internal life was the church's or if for example president putin would dictate who should be or who should we lift this bishops this will be the intervention such intervention is an image in the book.

now both russia and ukraine trace their history from kievan rus reach is i thing an interesting title because it merges together the concepts of geography and identity and for most good younger fi has always been trans indian secondary but not so much for constantin opal and key of for consumption opal for example its whole supremacy claim is based on the fact that the orthodox christianity was born in geographic locale and i think the ukrainians advancing a similar argument that. christians christians were there before moscow was event found that and why should it has it have any demeaning and over us what's your response to that. i should underline that there is ness in the bed in the fully itself the russian orthodox church at some point was a part of the major gate of constantinople then. it became an outer surface church

and it didn't ask for their consent to nobble permission i didn't ask for the permission of constantinople because at that time the preacher called constance you know paul was in the union was wrong which according to the russian church was here is so the preacher core of consent in op was a heretic there was no one to ask listen from. by itself there is nothing bad in the it but the problem for the ukraine currently is that it is not the ukrainian orthodox church of the united two crania north of the church will who are in the to safely it is that the majority of the orthodox faithful are against they want to stay united with the russian church but this is mighty groups on purely political grounds are asking for out of syphilis through

which they want to legitimize themselves and. birth along with you of constantinople seem to be responsive to those arguments up until a certain point of time what do you think changed in his understanding of the problem problem because as i mentioned before the this moment for an independent ukrainian church has been going on since the early one thousand nine hundred but it is only now that he is all of a sudden change his mind on the issue it's not quite all of a sudden of course there was something which stopped him from decisive. action moves actions and what is that of this was the plan or so those council which was supposed to take place in two thousand and sixteen. finally it turned out. to be not quite the planned course of the council because for georges did not participate including the russian orthodox jew just took it and

i found is that where he was very offended and moreover he even believed he told this to me personally for example he even believed that it was the russian orthodox church which plotted with three churches not to go to this conversation if that was the case is that sufficient enough reason to authorize the kind of changes that we are discussing today which can cause a major schism within the whole orthodox community first of all. this was not the case. but he doesn't believe that this was months the case. secondly of course. this is not a sufficient ground for in this let me i'm sorry for interrupting but do you think it's purely personal grievance that is driving such a man to change it is not only purely personal grievance but element and this

element was very clear when i met with. and also when peter grosz all the new met with the preacher q it was very clear that he was personally wounded and that he was personally orphaned and that he blamed the russian orthodox church for. the lack of success in the council of crete now the relationship between a mosque in constantinople was never particularly small i think most external observers agree that there is a bit of a power contest going on between patriarch ariel who's presiding over the largest and the wealthiest orthodox congregation and pay chart bartholomew who oversees a relatively small parish in a predominantly muslim country and yet claims a commanding. global powers do you indeed think there is a power contest going on between the two no i do not think so but i see from history referred to the one nine hundred twenty s.

when the pitcher kid of constantinople supported schism was in the russian orthodox church and they see from history is that the patriarch of constantinople very often treat this relationship in this way when there was a russian orthodox church finds itself in a difficult situation instead of healed think the church which one may expect from someone who pretends to be. of the interest of the city it is so instead of helping he does the sins which actually destroy the unity between the churches in the statement that the russian orthodox church issued in response to the consent of decision lately it used a very strong i would even say very irreverent language it's adjusted. the patriarch indeed wants to be as you say the orthodox spoke and that it will have to answer before god in history for this decision does the russian orthodox church

recognise the ecumenical status of constantinople and if so does this reckon do recognition dependent on the political decisions that the leader of the current leader of consenting double takes we do not recognise in the primacy of jurisdiction. we recognize the primacy of warner which means that the pitcher of constantinople. is first a monthly quills in the family or source of the churches but he has no right to intrude into another church he has no right to intervene into the affairs of churches he may if we wish chords in the certain that it is of all the orthodox churches but it is we the churches who trust him with this role and if he contrary to the opinion of the percy cuellar church we

cannot accept that the russian orthodox church also accused the old petra kate of wanting to start a war against the unity of the orthodox christian church and it said that if the ukrainian autocephaly is granted you're going to stop communicating communication of with with constantin ople by doing that one won't hear factor really. fueled out war even more because you would effectively have to tie your cut your ties with other churches some of the churches have a have to decide whether to side with you or with constant within that make things even worse first of all we do not need to cut ties with churches if we cut ties with constantinople there are situations in which two churches are not in communion with one another but. are in communion with both of them and this is what is

likely to happen but in canonical terms we will have no option because we cannot accept in the. such action on the part of constance in opal we will have to respond in this way and we are already a warrant several times over news that this will be one of the can sequence of. he's supposed to announce his final decision i mean in a formal way i think somewhere in the fall do you think it's also now are we already beyond the point of no return or do you still hope hold out hope that something may be decided in a mutually acceptable way. project because. the nickel sure student from the that those groups are not in the union was one of them and there is no clear perspective of even them being united.

who will not accept and it's unclear. under human speech or so there are many complications. but we shall see how it cools your eminence i really appreciate your time today thank you very much for answering our questions thank you. here is to keep this conversation going and our social media pages hope to see you again same place same time here on all the part.

so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy for him to let it be an arms race in his own spirit dramatic development only. i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical. usage. in. i've been saying the numbers mean they matter us is over one trillion dollars and. more than ten dollars for him stamping he did. eighty five percent of global wealth you want to be ultra rich eight point six percent market saw thirty percent from your home with four hundred to five hundred three per circuit for sure and one rose to twenty thousand dollars. china is building two point one billion dollars you industrial park but don't let the numbers overwhelm. the only numbers you need

remember one one doesn't show you know for a minute one in only. two thirds of american households do not have five hundred dollars emergency cash. as crazy. population doesn't have money and your money maintaining thirteen aircraft carriers around the room. why do you change your policies and do something that is good for the legacy. and good for america in the long run. in the stories that shapes the week. in chief speaks exclusively to the two russian suspected by the u.k. of poisoning say script paul and his daughter the men's claims triggered a furious response in the u.k.

and dismissed out of. the russian military claims terrorists unserious in their province have filmed a staged chemical attack and intend to frame the assad government. and still more trump signs a new executive order aimed at.