power wealth and also ideas that have transformed the world is now sadly on the way of losing his place. and that's a result of many strategic mistakes the west made especially the end of the cold war when after they defeated the soviet union without firing a shot is it with the end of history we have arrived we don't have to change we don't have the depth and the mystique the meat was that the west went to sleep at precisely the moment when china and india were waking up and the reason why significant that china and india are waking up is because from the year one through the year it into n.t. for each team hundred of the last two thousand years the two largest economies of the world always those of china and india but you have said that the western powers

don't quite understand that china and india are taking over economically but this has been a common knowledge for quite some time now and i am sure that the western leaders do realize that i mean by some measures china has already overtaken the u.s. it's happening right now here so it's not like they can't acknowledge the process i'm sure they see it and understand it or i think they can pay lip service but there are understand it deep in their guts that the world has changed again there is an i.o.i. there is a given a simple example i mean the two most important global economic organizations are the international monetary fund and the world bank i.m.f. and world bank. two to did you have a room this is to become the head of the i.m.f. you must be a european to become the head of the world bank he must be an american and asians which make up the vast majority of the world's population and we have the most

dynamic economies in the world today don't qualify to run the i.m.f. and the world bank that's a sign of resistance to the idea that they now have to share power system numbers and supremacy well i think it's a combination it's you know the western mind is a very troubled mind and that's why they vote for populist leaders like donald from or watching for extreme right parties in europe because they in their minds are very troubled they know. their era of domination is coming to an end by they cannot accept it psychologically they cannot accept it emotionally and therefore they're resisting it and that's why they're confused so my book is an effort to help them understand how they can adjust and adapt to a new world and actually create a better world in the process and just in terms of keeping the leaders are i just

in terms of accepting the world as it is and multipolar well i actually in my book has the west last to conclude the book by giving the west what i call my three m. l. advice in three m. three m. words the first is minimalist now the west continues to intervene in the affairs of so many countries around the world i'm saying stop it and even a relatively peaceful president like barack obama in the last year of his an illustration the united states dropped twenty six thousand barbs on seven countries why why are you bombing that the countries stop and then the second hand word is marty lateral and here frankly all these multilateral

institutions the un the i.m.f. the world bank the world trade organization are western gifts to the world so the west should be strengthening for example w.t. you know the united states is undermining the w.t. you very unwisely by the third word of course is one that surprises the west i advice the west to be machiavellian. to calculate its own interests so for example europe europe's problem is that africa's population which used to be half that of europe is now double that of europe by twenty one hundred would be ten times the size of europe. so europe should focus on africa. and who can help europe never go trina so europe is going to work with china instead of opposing china because america is china if you don't mind we're going to go through all three of those adams step by step but we'll start with trump. you

mentioned w t o he wants to pull america out of the w here he was skeptical of their concessions from the very beginning when he became president if that actually happens if america is out of there and ization what would that mean for w t o and for the global economy here actually are some good news for you the good news is the rest of the world won't carry on with w t o. with or without the united states and just a few days ago i had a conversation with mr pascal lamy the former head of the world biggio for many years and he said kishore the wu can carry on without the united states and the unitas is surprisingly will pay a price if it leaves the deputy oh so this is where i think the united states should think very carefully because at the end of the day if you want to curb some

of the unfair trade and economic practices of china and some of them are unfair clearly then he used to do you to change china's behavior. you mention that your book will help the west in america as well to somehow adjust to the changing world here but right now the current merican political climate everything is based on patch or it isn't and the america comes first and that's causing so much traction what would it take for america to realize that they're not number one anymore well i mean sadly i i i speak i'm not anti american i actually speak as a friend of america and i want to help america adjust to this new world and frankly it's a world that america can live comfortably in because americans will continue to do well in this large globalizing economy with rising asian economies but it just got

to give up is desired to domini the world and dominate the planet and i think most americans if you give them much sensible choice you know do you want to really continue domination and pay a heavy price or do you want to have a good life for your citizen because in my book i give you a very shocking statistic which is that two thirds of american households do not have five hundred dollars in emergency cash. that's crazy you know why your population doesn't have money and you burning money maintaining thirteen aircraft carriers around the womb why why do you change your policies and do something that is good for the american people and good for america in the long room when if you take the last two presidents for instance barack obama which you mention and it was a very peaceful president only he came with a message of peace but that he was obliged to do so many interventions this record

is that president doesn't always decide it's to establish this right if you look at trump yeah he clearly came became president on this new wave of peter wanting to live better within america and not really care that much about the rest of the world because that's overseas for them and doesn't take care of their problem of having less than five hundred dollars and security caption with that interim came and he can do the things that he wants today he has a list abolitionism when you say americans should realize what who who are they americans because the people clearly what you're saying the last two presidents wanted a change but it is not like they were able to do much well i mean you're absolutely right i mean the thing that i find very tragic about the united states of america is that it has the world's best universities there was bess strategic think things there was strategic thinkers in terms of being well known. as the worst

strategic thinking it's a great paradox. i think the americans haven't understood the american establishment especially because the american establishment has been going on autopilot for example recommending intervention countries like syria when it serve new vital national interests of america to be involved in syria why. so clearly there needs to be a revolution in the thinking of the american establishments because one of the things that my book. is that there's a disconnect between what the american establishment is trying to do and what the american people want and because the american people the north by the establishment they voted for trump as a protest against the establishment and the establishment has and notice that we're

going to take a short break right now when we're back we'll continue talking to our mahbubani former president of the u.n. security council talking about the new world order say with us. it's hard to imagine decades after the war a nazi doctor was still active and rich in the nineteen seventies crittle had as the chair of its board a man convicted of mass murder and slavery at auschwitz a german company grown untold develops a little mite a drug that was promoted as completely safe even during pregnancy it turned out to

have terrible side effects what has happened to my baby is anything paul you know she said is just cut short arms many so they don't mind victims i have to this day received no compensation they never apologized for the suffering that not only want the money i want the revenge. what politicians do. they put themselves on the line. they get accepted or rejected . so when you want to be president. or somehow want to. have to write to the press this is what the forty three in the morning can't be good for. i'm interested always in the waters about how. they should. ministries police forces and city administrations of many countries depend on one

corporation and another by mike was hoping when the boy got thrown from the eyes of god i'm just adama's got a gun to be with that got on him to see the must also bribe them proprietary software you don't know the source code isn't that such a security risk when you have a black box operating in the public i think microsoft dependency puts governments under a cyber threat and not only that. it's selling this one. more. thing through. the the warden. with. the. problem started on. the all business started there was in student loans in front of the top and his crowd some of.

them were bad but he sure mahbubani former president of the security council professor author of visionary mr mahbubani first said about trump and he what he wants to do and i mean the big topic kerry's obviously china. one of trump's election promises was a fairer trade for the united states so right now he wants to impose another cent set of import tariffs of two hundred billion dollars of chinese goods this would actually be very harmful for america why do you think he's doing that. i mean sadly i spoke to one of the leading trade economists in the world when i was in harvard university. in february this year he said to me kishore.

doesn't understand the basics of trade economics he thinks like a business. a deficit is a loss a surplus is a profit that's rubbish right all countries in the by the theory of international trade even if you have a deficit you are actually benefiting because you're buying a product at lower cost from somebody who can make it cheaper and better then you can pay to do an objectively or did you put all the factors in america's actually they were the biggest beneficiaries of the current trading order it has a surplus in services right it doesn't measure that more importantly more importantly the u.s. dollar is that global reserve currency so this means the chinese workers have to

trade the four hours a day very odd to many factor things to sell to america how does america pay for it prints dollars. come on you're getting a very good trade you print dollars you're getting hard workers for ducks but america is benefiting so and what is more sophisticated americans know that america is benefiting enormously from the current system and therefore the one dangerous thing. that donald trump is doing is that he's giving the rest of the world the incentive to move away from the u.s. dollar and if the rest of the world moves away from the u.s. dollar the impact on america be disastrous because you can no longer print dollars to buy food i don't think he quite things in that light i think for him like the primary goal is to undermine china he made no secret of that from day one

when he came so i was actually reading this analysis from from berkeley an analyst and they're saying that this war on terror is actually would be more detrimental for china than for america's china's economy in much more dependent on exports than it is then the american economy so maybe this strange tactic that a lot of people don tactic that a lot of people don't understand we have a troll is actually justified in the long term if he wants to undermine china well i mean you're right maybe maybe you might succeed but believe me. it is a fact. though the pain for america will be pain for china let me ask you a simple question is it easy for democracy. to accept pay or is it easier for an authoritarian government like china to accept pay and the chinese

population as far as i know i spent two months there in shanghai recently is strongly supportive of the chinese government saying if america is trying to bully us we will pay the price we will carry on so i think it's a big mistake to underestimate chinese resolve in these areas of course china is going to pay a price by in the long run china cannot afford to be seen to be weak in the face of such precious so trying know who stand by contrasts as you know donald trump is going to face a very difficult election in november and then if he doesn't badly in november he'll be so distracted by the domestic issues the trade war in which i now be put aside but do you deal understand where he's coming from when he wants to undermine china economically and militarily because he feels threatened by china

d.-n. or stan what he's doing that is a we're just tired anyway i think i always see in that sense. if you want to understand his thinking you got to read the writings of steve bannon . and steve vernon actually believes that america should be number one forever china's about to overtake we must undermine china and there is actually a strong school of thought in washington d.c. who believe that america should try to undermine and prevent china from overtaking it but it cannot be done it's a mission impossible china just by this year laws of mathematics with a population that is four times the size of united states of america. if you think the average chinese even is even half as smart as the average american china will have an economy which will be twice the size of america and as you know. the

chinese race mart has any what hear us and the mistake that these american thinkers are making is thinking that this last century's right of western domination is normal actually as i said it was an aberration because from the year one to the year it hundred twenty the two largest economies were always those of china and india so this aberration has to come to an end and you cannot fight for what i think is it because presidents come and go and then with every new president there's a new course of action here this approach towards china detail actually perish with trump or is it a long term strategy for america now well i actually writing a book on that subject this year on u.s.

china relations because history teaches us that whenever there was number one emerging power which is china is about to overtake there was number one power in economic size and scope to happen in the next ten years then there will be a maximum amount of tension and friction between us and china that's coming the question is how you manage it and i'm hoping with my book to give both america and china advice on how to manage this transition well because we now live in this is a very important point we now live in a small interdependent planet he would have planned to be to go to rio only a plan that he and with climate change becoming a serious problem we all have to work together to save brand. with so i'm going to point to the common interests that china and america and russia and india and

everybody holds have in making sure that we can continue to grow economies we can continue to improve the lives of our people without having to go to war with each other or without having to fight each other those nineteenth century games need no longer be played in the twenty first century so talking precisely about that and another from the three m's you written that western elites do not understand that they need to the more prudent and non interventionist me has ever into mention of their professions. and you could understand from the intervention of two thousand and three that the consequences were disastrous now you just shouldn't do it anymore over and over again but the truth is that strategy that course of action of westerns interfering into other people's affairs is still on the table and going pretty strong and i do not believe that is because western leaders are stupid

or people who don't have a sense of understanding or reasons i just don't understand why because i understand as are smart people understand that this doesn't work and it's been proven that it doesn't work but it is still happening and it is an official line of action why it's very hard to give up habits of two hundred year old navigate i heart all have is die hard exactly and for example the british french intervention in libya was a disaster. the result of the british french intervention in libya was a flood of migrants into europe and then it led to the rise of far right parties in europe it shows you the dangers of intervention drew just why it is actually very puzzling and i completely appreciate your question. that these societies that have produced the best thinkers for so little have completely lost the art of strategic

thinking and i can tell you one point in my make in my book that every time the united states intervenes and invades an alert country for example it into vention iraq was a geopolitical gift to china to give china ten free years to keep growing while america was busy fighting a war and in that decade or something remarkable happened in the year two thousand united says g.n.p. normal market terms was eight times the size of china by tween by last year it was only one point six dives so while america was busy fighting wars china was busy growing is economy and that shows the strategic stupidity of the united states but then on the other hand i mean do you blame the westerners for failing so superior about their systems because the standards of living in europe are in america are light years ahead if you compare it to any other country in the world.

well you haven't been to japan and singapore that that's a. no no actually you find. the most important thing a society needs is to provide hope for its young people and it is a societies where the young people who are the most optimistic are the happiest societies on planet earth and trust me if you're looking for off to ms a among young people don't come to europe and if you're looking for the museum young people today don't even go to america because americans are also very troubled about their future which is why they would have a dream if you want to come to find the most of the mystic populations come to asia . come to china come to india come to indonesia come to some of these asia and you'll find me incredibly optimistic young people so clearly in terms of the

not where you are two d. but where you would be to morrow it's very hard to be the of them is a movie show but do you feel like westerners should to completely give up on interventions because obviously an intervention like iraq or libya like you said with no plan of action what happens after the intervention brought disastrous results for everyone including western countries but then there is intervention like mali intervention that actually prevented a more disastrous results on the ground should we say no to interventions all together or surely you know maybe she's in peak where we can do and here we can't my second term would course multilateral and then give you two exhibits ok. there were two interventions in iraq one by father bush one by son bush father bush and secretary of state james baker to over one hundred countries to get

support for un resolution it was the legal war and the war whole world supported the son bush went ahead and i was in the security council in two thousand and one two thousand and two sitting next to sergei lavrov for two years. and that war was against the opposition of the international community and that's why it was a disaster so i say yes doing to be in but followed the international rules willing to venture in which is get security council approval before you intervene. thank you so much for this wonderful into your insight i really recommend all of you to rate and raising and raising land and hopefully will have you as a guest if you clear pleasure.

join me every thursday on the alex simon show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business i'm showbusiness i'll see you then. in twenty forty you know bloody revolution of you tube clip demonstrations going from being relatively peaceful political protests to be creasing the violent revolution is always spontaneous or is it just always. put in the. schooling needle the former ukrainian president recalls the events of twenty fourteen. those who took. invested over five billion dollars to assist

ukraine in these and other goals that will ensure a secure and prosperous and democratic. seemed wrong. to me you get to shape out these days you can stick to it and engagement equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. if they were just on. my side as that is it it would not

and. so there was a build up. in the him a ride in the question of how they. look. under the hood of the the guy we. don't want out of the modern i don't want to know about. something that's really not one of the our mr need to. own up on the. art of a shuffle stemming with a. song in the world and you'll get a little warmth and you know what. i'm going to. show what are the ages thought on this idol of the.

book. the russian defense ministry tracks the serial number of the missing link by the official investigation for the downing of the mh said. these top secret documents unclassified of course for the sake of the probe the rocket to ukraine's forces. also what i'll tell you the russian and turkish presidents me to be in the resort city.