after the war a nazi don't kill was still active. in the nineteen seventies crittle had as the chair of its board a man convicted of mass murder and slavery. the german company develops in the demise a drug that was promoted as completely safe even during pregnancy it turned out to have terrible side effects what has happened to my baby anything. you know she said she's just. mimics of it a mind victims have to this day to receive compensation they never apologized for the suffering that not only want the money i want the revenge. on. my side i said.

so there are other bills. in the him. but. look. the money out of the modern i don't want to know about. something really on the. phone. i don't. know but i will go off and you know. this i don't.

hello and welcome to cross talk where all things considered i'm peter lavelle in the age of triumph winning is all that matters the phrase by any means necessary has truly been weaponized now politics has little to do with policy front and center our perceived cultural grievances and resentments just ask brett kavanaugh. cross talking the politics of grievance i'm joined by my guest nate lerner in new york he is executive director of build the wave in personal we have ned ryan he is founder and c.e.o. of american majority and we cross to jeff dice he is president of institute are a gentleman cross talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want

i always appreciate jeff let me go to you first in auburn i really want to talk about the politics of resentment and grievance and very broad terms and then we had the case of the supreme court nominee kind of blow blow up and it's going to probably obsessed us for the next week and then the end for former provides president joe biden he has his comment trump supporters are the dregs of society i thought we got over the deplorable mistake here it seems to be repetitive and it does seem to be focused on this politics of grievance and resentment how do you put it all together go ahead jeff. the cavanagh hearings are the latest flashpoint i was a little surprised by and he actually said some conciliatory things back when he was on the senate judiciary committee way back in the clarence thomas nomination days so this is perhaps biden thinking about running for president who knows but the deplorable stuff it's look both sides think this largely about you know they're

both sides of madge and maybe thirty forty percent of the country is beyond redemption and i don't know how you deal with that politically neither side has much of a theory about how you deal with politically vanquished people you don't just go away and what bothers me about all of this is that everything's become so politicized that we have magine every aspect of our life has to be viewed through this lens and i think the cabin i hear you flex it i think is a pretty milk toast guy a pretty down the middle guy in terms of republican nominee for the supreme court i i think that is part of the spoils system trying to basically get us to have his nominees absent something really terrible did he was he involved in some kind of sexual misconduct i don't know that that's a factual question but but the point is that where you know what kavanagh did or didn't do is almost beside the point this is a war and they don't want trump to have a victory and trump doesn't want democrats to have

a victory by killing his nomination that's what's really going on here is a proxy war ok nader in new york ground weigh in on what we just heard from jeff here because you know if the e.c. use a term of vanquished people and i think that's what a lot of people feel that voted for donald trump they feel they have been vanquished by a political system that doesn't listen to listen to them and then we have been watching it and miss n.b.c. . i think was kaput kathy katie tertiary said i can't believe the rank and file the republican party still supports him that her whole message here tell me she doesn't understand half the country go ahead nate in new york or if you're going to touch on their new republic. this point no longer make up half the country if they ever did but they are shrinking in numbers every day they're losing macam talking about registered rosalee moron for becoming democrats only half the population they can vote voted for him i think that's sort of the country i would say it's closer to a third and you know they're nothing which their voice was very loudly heard during the election in fact it was overheard they were over represented thinks he looks

for a college the way our senate works as well rule states are overrepresented in the senate conservatives are a minority right now in our country and yet they have a much louder voice because of the way our electoral system is set up right now and also this is just back on cavanagh real fast i don't this was a political issue previously when we're talking about roe v wade but now we turn our attention to the allegations at hand it's really become more of a moral issue right now because it's very clear that his accuser is telling the truth she is absolutely nothing to gain from this incident as we know that he's never studied for now you know how do we know that it will never be a lie about it was never proven one way or another ok we want to jump in there go ahead ned go ahead i knew was going to happen to be so milk you know it was one of those put another conservative and no go ahead nick. no that's absurd you know what elections have caused it was as if he and the duly elected president of the united states according to our constitution loves which the mr lindsey would not ins his

appointees brett kavanaugh is definitely within the well stream well respected over three hundred decisions on the lower court that have been out there people understand where he's coming from again elections have consequences there so much to address your but almost all of this first of all i think what's deeply troubling about this in our society but even now in our legal system we used to operate under the presumption of innocence until proven guilty now we're just saying from an uncooperative thirty five year ago accusation from somebody that can't even remember the day of the location of where happened we're going to pursue him that she is actually right and that cavanaugh is guilty i think this is extremely dangerous we're now are saying people are guilty until you can prove your innocence on a very vague charge from decades ago so no i think this is completely wrong but it also addresses a much larger issue in our society in which we need to go back to presumption of innocence until proven guilty the other thing that i think people are completely missing is this forget conservative forget republican what people are not

understanding and are missing about the whole donald trump phenomenon is that people who have been rejected by the system of government who are considered outsiders are sick of the bipartisan globalism that has sold out their interest from bad trade deals from trying to do nation building and spending trillions of dollars overseas for sending our manufacturing jobs overseas and so i think people need to shift their mindset from republican versus democrat to more of a ruling class first the outsider because i think that starts to everything starts to make a lot of the lives of those lenses ok i want to jump in there and go ahead because i want to be very quickly and you know what have you learned in the ego to me let me go tonight and let me go to nate over sixteen other republican let me go to nate here in new york because i want to be fair to him go ahead. i think i agree our political system has become extremely divisive but it. you look at who is the most divisive political figure in history right now it's donald trump democrats never respond this way to john mccain they respond this way to mitt romney or even paul

ryan it's daal trump doing this out in there because they are scared of what he's going to say they're scared of his extremism and we i would love i would love the model republican in office right now but we are very very far from that he is nourished divisive figure in history i mean that i mean want to bring the country together put someone more moderate in the in office let me go to jeff here so ok it's been said donald trump is an extremist is he an extremist if you look at his policies it's pretty mainstream republican now his style kids very different and that's what i'm getting at here ok because trump's of supporters apparently smell ok they're deplorable this this is come from the left it's not come from the right here it's all about style and not about policy go ahead jeff. yeah it is about tone and style and of course i don't think hillary clinton would necessarily be doing radically different things from a policy perspective that donald trump's doing now she probably be doing them in a more rote fashion but i just like to get back to this point why would this woman

do this against capital i think she would do it to be a resistance hero and to take a political scalp that's what this is about and frankly i think that deciding everything by politics is a pretty bad way to organize society i think supreme courts way too powerful it's become this winner take all system of ours and why should why should we have to wake up in the morning and care so much about the identity of one of nine super legislative monarchs in this room where this is this isn't what the constitution in imagining in this isn't this isn't how it ought to operate so this is all from my perspective someone who wants government radically downsize this is this is all a symptom of a supreme court and a federal government which is wildly extra constitutional and operating beyond how it ought to operate kavanaugh kavanaugh is not really the issue here and his morality is hardly something to be judged by the senate judiciary committee of all

things ok let me go back to new york i mean what you mentioned something you know you talked about the electoral college i mean it now this is an issue because i suppose suppose your candidate last year but that's the way the system works you've shoot for two seventy and you become president ok if it had been reversed no one would be talking about the electoral college at least i doubt that and on top of that you know these hearings with counting are traditionally the they're just about is the person competent to do the job and watching those hearings that had nothing to do with his competence it although it's looking to ambush him and to destroy his character and you know i think he's like milk toast too i mean he's a really solid guy go ahead in new york so what i don't understand is if he's so milk toast and he's such a generic conservative then why not just put america arlen. and or another conservative it's very clear cabot actually was very unimpressive also in answering a lot of the questions earlier and then weighs heavily the allegations has been very disturbing and you know when you're appointing someone of the highest court in the land character absolutely does matter tried may be president but character

still matters and so do morals and so does law and order and so does the rule of law and so it's absolutely acceptable that when someone comes forward and puts the allegations forward which are very likely correct that we still push to put someone like this on the supreme court put another conservative in and the reason is because senate republicans want to make sure they get someone before the midterms because they know they're likely going to lose the senate potentially ok will they need that that is the product of the president of the united states ok it's his prerogative to do that it's not others to decide that they're you know i can't i mean i'm i have to say that i would have never been married arlen very distressed by this lack of presumption of innocence it's extraordinary i'll give you the last minute in person bill before we go to the break go ahead he's not going to jail he just kept him supreme court. and i think i think the thing it and the whole the whole reason that this is such a big issue is because jeff made the point the supreme court is far outside of what

the founders originally envisioned the court being it has become a super legislative body which is the less favorite plaything for expanding the administrative state and doing end run around the legislative process and i'll tell you why it's so important because i think someone like brett kavanaugh going on the supreme court is actually about a restoration the constitutional order and saying the supreme court shouldn't have this role in our society in fact we should know all nine names of the supreme court justice they should be more in the background but i'm going to say this yet again i think the left is still struggle and struggle for decades without actually rationally accepting losing an election because they don't like the results of it you know what that's how our constitution republic works that's how democracy works you lose elections if you don't like the results you try to win the next election you don't come up with bizarre fairytale hoax stories of trump russia collusion you don't come up with these false story. they can spread camo which by the way diane feinstein was sitting on for weeks didn't go up about a conversational gambits showing up here at a job and here is political really go to a break and remember elections have consequences who said that after

a short break we'll continue our discussion on the politics of division state with . shows like these junk food companies that also like the other just so they get you they give you diarrhea and then you care for diarrhea so the cycle of family they get you caught there when they try to get me they take your fragile medical care for you but they also have that nonsense that a carol. the ability to keep you locked into a for petrol lifelong dystopian heroine slash kept up this wall jumpsuit life.

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back to cross talk where all things considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing the politics of division. ok i want to go back to jeff in auburn i want to pick up on a point that ned brought up here i mean if you look at the legislative. victories or policy victories i should rather say of the left over the last forty forty five fifty years the epicenter is the supreme court and i think this is one of the reasons why at this eleventh hour. revelation we can never be proven one way or another as far as i know there was never a ripley's report cavanagh's been interrogated questioned by the f.b.i. six times i mean how many people go through that in life ok this is an eleventh hour and it's politics ok and it's

a blood sport ok but it seems not transparent in this attempt to derail this nomination and it's only because it's trump's nomination go ahead joe well it is bloodsport that's because in many ways a supreme court justice is more important more powerful than president yeah we certainly have a much longer term and i think what's what's going on here is that people understand that this court is going to make macro decisions for american society the decisions about things like abortion and god and. health care mandates all kinds of things on zoning you name it on eminent domain on civil asset forfeiture on criminal justice so what we have again is some sort of super legislature. deciding things in a top down manner for three hundred twenty million people especially three. twenty million people who are increasingly diverse pluralistic is a recipe for disaster it's a recipe for mis content in this country i hate it i hate the idea that the

supreme court makes these decisions i think san francisco perhaps needs a different set of social rules than rural montana for how it organizes it society it and the the history of the supreme court in the twentieth century saying no no no we're going to have one rule for how we organized society and we're going to be the ultimate arbiter of a duck congress not the executive branch and this is the problem i don't know how you one do this i wish i could give you an easy answer but but when we hear things about like well the electoral college over represents really this is absurd if if hillary clinton had got maybe a one hundred thousand more votes two hundred thousand more votes in florida and pennsylvania ohio and had won the electoral college and won the election all the sudden the left would be telling us about the wisdom of our system prevented a demagogue from donald like donald trump getting in after all i mean literally three hundred twenty million people or letting a couple hundred thousand swing the balance between this mass hysteria of the you

know hitler is in office versus all you know clearly the arc of progressivism is is moving in the right direction because of hillary clinton we're going to we're going to have that national mindset swonk to these two degrees by a couple hundred thousand people it's absurd so count me out ok let me go back to you in new york you know in the questions that i sent out through my producers i mentioned the whole saga around bill clinton and his impeachment process and the there was a backlash against that against how the i wasn't for. going after clinton on that the other things i think policy wise fine but they was a backlash and i tend to think going back to that poll that i mentioned that m.s.m. b.c. you know how can the. supporters after everything that's been said and done still support him it seems to me that the democrats don't understand trump people and trump country and i think isn't it incumbent upon you to try to understand the more

i mean you know politics is to be the art of the possible and i don't see that i mean there's so many thing cavanagh's testimony when he was talking about some kind of abortion procedure was intentionally tampered with the tape and it was put out he said this you know he was quoting somebody else i mean that is that is that that's the that's kind of warfare that's below the belt don't you think go ahead in new york it is but so is the way that merrick garland obama were treated just two years ago and i think it's important member that senate republicans to exact same fair share this is really no different i think we're seeing too much of it from both sides and you're right we should make more of an effort to engage with supporters i think there is a little bit too much hatred on both sides politically and we're still all americans we still live in the same nation we saw the same goals and we keep that in mind more often but at the same time when you look at what's happening in the white house you look at the chaos you look at how many times own people have been quoted calling him an idiot it's a little concerning to hear that and when you see all the turn over all the just

the endless disasters every day in the news there's new notifications about the nonsense going on in the trucking ministration you look at any subjectively even he would agree with this man ideology ideologically how can you stand by him as a leader how can you stand by him as an executive knowing only selected that just coming out he was a lesson that day he was elected so how do you but how do you stand by that we have i have learned a lot but. not always and you got to hang on you guys on this program when i call balls and strikes when he says something or does something i think is wrong i say it loud and clear without any doubt ok i don't carry water for anyone ok but i'm not going to be default against him ok i'm not default for him all right i listen parses words words his ideas let me go to personal here i mean. you know everyone is administration calls him an idiot well do you trust bob woodward i'm not sure necessarily that's true all these other books that come out you know his tapes. it seems to me that it's

a coordinated campaign that said nonis op ed to the to the new york. oh and it's all a concerted probe because they can't fight him any other way it just fight him personally and there's a lot of people that it was a lot of people that like him personally ok you're insulting them is well go ahead and personal. that's exists that's exactly right because we went out in a very intentional way i was supporting him before the primary was over and the reason i did is because we needed somebody like donald trump to come in and make stuff up and i got to tell you i'm a little disappointed because he is kind of snapping back to more of a conservative republican administration but i want him to you know i am encouraged by some of things he's already done you know cutting the regulatory state the tax cuts you know pushing through the keystone pipeline going in saying we're not going to put up with these bad trade deals going and saying to china you know what we're not going to tolerate these bad trade deals and you stealing our technology with force technology transfers and outright theft i mean all of these things that he's

doing and then obviously supreme court justices like kavanagh that's exactly why we elected him we wanted him to go out and do these things and put us on a different path and say we're not going to have status quo it's not going to be business as usual we had plenty of choices and that republican primary and we chose donald trump and we chose him for a reason and the other thing i'll say about this because i've been inside this white house i've been inside this west wing multiple times first of all everybody i think understands every administration especially a west wing is full of type a personalities. who think they're the smartest person in that room so there's always that conflict but i've been in there peter and i'm telling you of course there's conflict of course there's differences of opinions but nobody's running around with their hair on fire of course you know the other thing i think that throws people off he does you're either going to approach he has brought an outside approach and still throwing people for a loop. this man puts a lot of people's hair on fire no one can deny that i think we all agree on that.

ok jeff you know in looking at the in the media coverage of the president. it's particularly from the liberal cable station c.n.n. amisom b.c. it for me it's just hour after hour of virtue signaling you don't learn any new news and you learn about opinions about people that. i personally have almost zero respect for it's politics a virtual virtuously and that doesn't get anywhere because there's no debate there's no debate about policy that way go ahead jeff and over if you can if you could go back a few years to toward the end of obama's term and say look democrats the next president's going to be republican but absent good news stories not going to be some red make red state governor he's going to be in new york city real estate developer with a bunch of beautiful wives who's worked all his life around gay lesbian folks all his life isn't adam aided by social conservatism abortion any of these issues and

by the way he is also a trade protectionist who look who's pro-union i think you would have taken that you would have preferred to have hillary but if you had to have republican i think you would have taken that and yell tell you what i bet all three of us could agree if he would just get out take pick one get at a yemen get out of syria get out of iraq or afghanistan just one of those four i bet you all three of your guests would agree that would be a good thing jeff i you could be the chairman of the trump twenty twenty campaign because i know you did i didn't audition i declared i was good excellent now addition they're going to go back to let me go back to new york and it's that state with the issue of the virtues signaling i mean does it give the democrats kratz any kind of traction by hour after hour week after week month after month of just bashing the president he takes two scoops of ice cream and everyone else has won what value is that what is the value of talking like that about his golf game and all i don't understand it may be happening gone too long go ahead in new york. i

mean he it's the same reason he won he's such a character he just demands attention constantly and every single day you know every time i look at my phone i see news that i don't know what you know what's happened now i do it it's not it's not that it's nothing it's it's something i have significant has happened and it's not it's kind of scary you know you have to wonder and it's a little tiring to have someone like that who still want to live on office and what's really concerning was what happens when a real disaster occurs you know here or abroad and we have this man in office who is not fit to handle it appropriately and i think we do need it back to focusing on the issues talk about policy and luckily if you go to a lot of these different districts across the country there is a very exciting number of diverse and experienced democrats who are running for office we're talking about local issues that people care about who are talking about trump at all they're reaching across the aisle to trim supporters they're talking of moderates they're talking to democrats and they're talking about you know helping people get health care they're talking about addressing economic inequality they're helping you know talking about issues that people care about day to day ok and so you know the idea of a focus on trying to and i get anything done is i guess i don't know if i'm c.n.n.

an imbecile in d.c. because they never talk about that they ever let me go to a personal you know for all the people and i'm not a trump supporter i'm not format against them i go policy by policy here but the constantly denigrating him we have to remember one thing he didn't get elected the longest shot victory probably in american presidential politics last word goes to personal going. yes no and i think they've done a great disservice listen i want a free press i also want an honest press and i think they decided as soon as trump came into office they were going to be the opposition party and they were going to leave behind a lot of norms and a lot of standards that they had operated under for the previous many decades and so i think they've done themselves a great disservice and you can see this in the polls peter when they in the mid seventy's had a seventy two percent you know trustworthiness approval rating from the american people that dropped to thirty two percent and twenty sixteen they've done this to themselves and they've done it to themselves because it looks like they've lost all

objective eighty they've. all standards they've just decided they're going to be the opposition party and they're going to do whatever it takes to constantly attack and maybe even try and bring down this president i american people have given up to me saying we're not going to have this and i got to jump in here all i can say is to be continued many thanks to my guests in new york all been personal and thanks to our viewers for watching us here darkie see you next time and remember crosstalk .

when you. look at the. book. but. it's still it's. just show. it now going to do you need no denial no i don't get.

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