let's talk about the state of journalism and let's talk about the state of the new york times in our in their recent article the same thing. we're going to do this night now the plot to subvert an election unraveling the story the russia story so far not just a title it assumes that there was a plot ok ok it's about a ten thousand word article there's one hundred ninety nine paragraphs and paragraphs five we have a president trying to twitter outbursts that this is all a hoax and a witch hunt in the face of a mountain of evidence to the contrary have taken a toll on public comprehension and then we go down to after the reader is tortured for many many paragraphs we go to paragraph one seventy eight mr trump's frustrations with the russian investigation is not surprising he is right that no public evidence has emerged showing that his campaign conspired with russia india election interference or accepted russian money mark interesting what happened in

between i don't know evidently it's not very important because paragraph one hundred eighty three i think it was contradicts completely paragraph five and the rest is i think that when they sum it up it has trumps the noels which evidently they say there's no evidence of later has taken a toll on public comprehension i.e. the public isn't believing what we want them to believe about what happened the rest of hundred twenty nine hundred paragraphs in between is innuendo speculation and. cherry picked intelligence assessments not even official reports and indictments that are made but have in the never been proven in any court of law anything right now and have nothing to do with russia. the problem is that the cycle is sort of old but it actually has a very low. it's in it you know it's all bad kind of romantic fiction let me just

called it we've had to make sure you get this is the definition of real minutes cyber rage pool harbor carried out by an inexplicably seen as the russia that sounds like you know all these. romance novels and. reminds me of the war start in soviet and german dollars i mean if you read the soviet or german newspaper in one thousand so just ten percent of it will be facts ninety percent it will be a bold bloody period is to know who warned what it is that it is trying to control a certain narrative about what's going on in politics and that's what it is i mean i find it interesting that i didn't find it right before the show here but the new york times did something similar about six months that you know how do you train you know and then they rewrote their entire history all over again in in this is

what they're doing also here is that they're saying this is the standard narrative but if you've been watching this this program watching fox news you would have a completely different view of what russia russia russia means no i agree and i think that this this replacement of facts with this emotional rhetoric kind of demonstrate that they didn't obviously building this case on anything but pure evidence i guess overall i would be a bit concerned about the state of journalism as you opened up with because. this is just emotional rhetoric about every time they do put forward evidence we often find that you should there's no evidence there but also several occasions we see that it's been disproven be it that the for example russia the electric grids or the voting booths but what happens after these journalists obviously got a completely wrong. or very early slightly. larger drill is held accountable are they. new self let's how we can get people been fired ok c.n.n.

fired a couple of people but overall the recall the rush overall i think. it's this sense they get a lot of their clicks and at the end of the their efforts in terms of mobilizing the international community a structure of steel succeeded and yeah. mark you know first of all i want to equate us to march with fox there is i don't want to go on but what i'm whatever my point is here is that there are there is another a narrative that is completely different there are other narratives. and i'm worried for you if you think that's romantic fiction and your love life is in serious jeopardy we take you out on the. road more exciting but more paragraph here that i thought was interesting and glad i was talking about evidence and the public case that mr putin succeeded in delivering the presidency to is it my or mr trump though it can not be proved or disproved plausible case it cannot be proved or

disproved look this is why did they write this article and this is the way that the legal system justice and the media should work if you're making an exact accusation you have to prove it we don't have to disprove something that you can't even attempt to prove. the problem is that it's not just emotional it's immoral and sometimes it's an outright lie let me let me quote just russians hijacked american citizens feelings about immigration and race feelings how can you have a feeling you know then also this is my favorite the u.s. had big democratic and russian forces in the so-called color revolutions. you know dishes the they make they sign over equality between democratic and that russian if you are and they're russian then you are democratic they forget to mention that the ukrainian regime. which the u.s.

helped to install has banned thousands of russian artists and writers has basically one or correspondent we went there for a conference on freedom of speech and she was thrown out of the country sometimes detained people get detained simply for coming there with journalist purposes you know these the regime is lawful it's not a critic at all and that the same journalists quote sheen six months ago all here all done article the u.s. is doing the same thing there's a way the gist of the article he says we do is to say as a former cia officials who has been working for thirty years as the chief of the right direction and so again cheney is caught in here the yes absolutely carried out election influence and they call we keep doing it and of called so what it was you see you know it's unfortunate because it is a serious core of america's sense of exceptionalism of course meddling in

a lead in someone else's election is wrong but when we do it when the u.s. does it it is because a virtuous reasons know it and of course this. this this idea that america has the right to do it i think that's what's annoying the russian government as well because at the end of the. you know that's an understatement. really respective of whether or not. russia actually did it or not it is worth. the program to get at the i think it's worth having a debate about what extent it should be permitted to interfere somewhat in other selections but of course that's what the russian president also brought forward but if you have your high government official let's guess who i'm talking about you're a high government official you have a private server that is not secure don't you think every single intelligence agency in the world we've got to start looking all we found an urn. secured server

ok that's what intelligence operations are all about so why should be surprised when foreign countries try to apply and out what's going on. co berkeley when the united states is doing the same thing around the world twenty four seven march first of all the i'm in the new york times defense on this racism it's a well known fact that racism did not exist in the u.s. on till a few supposedly russian trolls on facebook posted a few racist memes since it will not give either its all polarized just because of these to st petersburg and now i got in on this whole thing about the us meddling in russia's elections and the long history of it to be fair the us only does it to democratize russia and every other country around the world as you know we've seen the us has meddled in more countries elections according to carnegie mellon mellon research than any other country in the world by far but on the other

hand what exactly is russia accused of assuming assuming they did it which i haven't seen the evidence they're accused of hacking some e-mails that exposed the democratic party the d.n.c. colluded with hillary clinton to rig their own primary is there any greater act of democratization than proving that the us rigs its own elections well if it's true you could imagine you know putin saying you're welcome. in it's also also if you want to look for outside meddling then we can look at christopher steele we can look at using g.p.s. then cryptically is ruined arithmetic cryptically donald trump said recently on the stump that america's allies are concerned about the release of these e-mails and text messages. we can all speculate who those allies are i mean what i mean i

ruin you about this interference by the same guy scott shane in february it writes it quite open to new york times yes at the new york times a russian american interference in the elections have not been morally equivalent and all the cool but of course i don't hear the news. of the because the americans always supported the democrats and tried to limit the influence of authoritarian governments while the russians did the opposite and and they provide the statistics in the us intervened in eighty one elections while the white and russians together with the soviet period in just thirty six i mean can you imagine them seated in their culture waiting you know what are their criteria and so there where there is good meddling and there is bad meddling and there is a good bit of that you see in the sprit ludes the star wars yes yes you know there's a popular me that has been telling the young darth vader attic and don't dare

attack i have the high ground that every time i hear a u.s. official say this we have the moral high ground don't you dare. i thought you were going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on some real news stay with our. backs geysers financial survival guide. housing bubble. oh you mean there's a downside to artificially low mortgage rates don't get carried away that's cause report. i've been saying the numbers mean some matter u.s. has over one trillion dollars in debt more than ten going over time stamped. eighty

five percent of global wealth to the rich eight point six percent market saw a thirty percent rise last year some with four hundred to five hundred three per second per second point rose to twenty thousand dollars. china's building two point one billion dollars ai industrial park but don't let the numbers overwhelm. the only numbers you need to remember is one one showed for the myth one can only. imagine the decades after the war a nazi don't tell was still active rich in the nineteen seventies crittle had as the chair of its board a man convicted of mass murder and slavery. a german company developed so the

demise of drugs it was promoted as completely safe even during pregnancy. it turned out to have terrible side effects what has happened to my baby anything. she said is just. minutes and i don't mind victims i have to this day received no compensation they never apologized for the suffering that not only want the money i want the revenge. welcome back across like where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing some real names. ok now we're joined by martin j. he's in beirut and he's a freelance broadcast journalist martin it's good to have you back on the program let's talk a little bit about what's going on with russia israeli relations in lieu of what's

happened in the last week or so with the they and the shooting down of a russian jet. accidentally we're told here what has been the fallout go ahead mark. well it's at the moment it's up in the air this is a very serious subject which is really don't get in the correct amount of. media and that's largely because the relationship that israel has with russia is a very special one israel is the only western ally which is active in syria and at the moment but has a very special relationship with russia least it has recently so i think what's happening now is that we're on all the analysts and journalists are scratching their heads and wondering what's the next step now from this tete a tete with a lot of. duplication and confusing messages have to come in from russia which i don't think it's helping if i can be crittenton of who said it but but i think

israel is now in a really difficult position because the specialisation ship may well have to be put on hold and a whole new new set of sort of rules may well have to be drawn up between russia and it's really you know you've got a situation now where by a tacit permission to ship a tacit agreement since russia entering the theater of war in syria which allow us the israelis to bomb at will across syria now that's going to have to be drawn into question i mean putin allowed israel to do that because you have to remember israel lost so much since september two thousand and fifteen when russia came into syria you know it's lost all of its extremists in the south you know until that point things were very good for israel but now it's a little time low and what we're witnessing in my view is a sort of insecurity from netanyahu which is reaching new limits mean i think with the downing of the russian jet it was certainly lessons learned and the simple messages which came across not you and let's let's let's talk about some of those

lessons here marc amien you've been watching this very very carefully has this relationship russia and israel changed as a after this tragedy the loss of life here. i would say that it should but at least from the russian president and his words diplomatically spoken since very trying why everyone hippie i think was a little too diplomatically spoken as far as i'm concerned the russian ministry of defense made clear they said that the israeli craft conducting i think the two hundred eighth ill legal unilateral attack violating syria's saw over n.t. what they claim there was iran and hezbollah in syria as if syria doesn't have the right to control its own ally you know to choose its own allies through that help to fight off israel's proxy jihadi s two hundred some attack and supposedly they

did it using a russian reconnaissance plane that was frantically trying to land to get out of the conflict area as cover and then the syrian air defense. might have access what it was a russian ministry of the friends accidentally locked onto it with a with a passive radar detection it's a much bigger radar signature than the israeli f. sixteen so the russian minister says it clearly blames israel for this first of all they never should have been talking an illegal attack on syria to begin with if they had some idea that it could be a threat to their security they should have taken their evidence to the u.n. security council of course if that's ok but you know for me i'm going to be me here this has some echoes of the u.s.s. liberty on the american that was in the in one thousand sixty seven. were an american ship and sailors were attacked and sailors were killed ok well it's true

of the comparison was made in russia but the main points on which the russian defense ministry quotes and create it in his press conference this was first they use radio planes did not want to leave the area. you know they were there and they offered help or only fifteen or twenty minutes after the plane was dull pictured second russia actually did everything to do ensure security by its actions in syria russians helped to remove the and the israeli forces from the golan the area broaching golan kates and in general in the south of israel there was an agreement between netanyahu and putin that russia will use real what we're trying something we go back to martin j. here real quick martin i mean the damascus government has been petitioning very heavily for more advanced anti-aircraft technology and that has been hotly debated

and the russian side has pulled back do you think that the russian government now is going to change its position. well it may well to me i think has issued throws the debate up into the air i mean you may well as his narrative next coming weeks of russian syrian and iranian military advisers sitting around a table and saying well what can we do to prevent this happening again it may well not even be anti aircraft missiles on the ground it may work even be jets in the sky because you could remember that so far until this point when israel has crossed lebanon illegally and into syria carries out the sorties it doesn't usually have any other planes tool yeah and psoriasis main its main problems on the ground i'm wondering whether this is the point now where such people say look you know we've got an outdated decrypted air force but perhaps is the time now to look to mr putin for some more military aid in maybe a few as soon russian jets in the sky and with with the syrian air force badges on

the rear wing may well be what's needed but i think there's a certain amount of politicking going on which i think is which is which is rather dangerous at the moment i mean i think putin is probably going to use this now as a circuit to exercise a certain amount of leverage against his friend in inverted commas mr netanyahu because you know how long can this nomination should carry on whereby you have these sorties being carried out right and you know it's it's often been reported but one hundred eighteen iranian soldiers the last two were killed were not you know how long can the iranians and hezbollah and even the assad government you know continue to accept this completely illogical arrangement a strange relationship you know something's got to give somewhere ok i think that's what we meant something has to give and i want to thank you martin jay for joining us in beirut here this continue this here and glenn i think martin really brings up a good point i mean i hate to say because it's a cliche but we're at a nother crossroads in syria. as of now the crossroads on the other hand i do think

that the russian israeli relationship or survive it simply because it isn't. why would i think it could have survived but i think it's going to transform as well well and what both sides have an interest to make this thing go away with the exception he pointed out that russia should use this as a way to push it back at this release and also i think you know what he mentioned terms of this strategic patience that russia so on this i think there's a limit to it because of course it's and it's in russia's interest not to create so many waves at the moment as the war is coming to an end you want you know if you want as little disruption as possible on the other hand when. russia laos other countries to come in and bomb and the and put its own forces in jeopardy it has to ask yourself whether or not it's actually promoting peace because foreign power will factors in next time to british for example come and drop some bombs that will come with the assumption that russia is not going to fight any erosion is

a serious solver ok to any. patients ok in the world one more topic before i want to talk about what's going on on the korean peninsula peninsula because i think it's really really important something we've talked about repeatedly on this program if there's going to be peace on the peninsula it's going to be the koreans are determined and it's happening well we should not forget that they actually sanction war continues it will the whole of course but my point is here we are two leaders the two korean leaders that are making the right sounds making the right moves in the right optics and whose who's left out in the cold the u.s. yes they don't you have the distinct impression they don't like the pace of where this is going i think the war between north and south korea is almost ended because the agreed to make a bid for their joint bid for the next olympic games and well that's another thousand and thirty two or something going to steal it's ok i don't think we know but. my point is here is that they want to end this conflict and if this conflict

does come to an end there is a big question to ask when. and why would the us continue to have troops in the cell and initials and i wish there was an interesting piece in the hill this week where as such i will stick conclusion at the end that the us shouldn't accept any political settlement that essentially reduces the u.s. footprint dominance in that part of the world so i think that's all that's america's interest is that into reason although obviously well i think that was also a point to put quite obviously this week because when the koreans both north and south put forward their ideas that they would like to increase physical transportation corridor between them both the rail and roads. of the americas told us no sorry you can't do that so essentially their allies yeah they're all going to shoot their clients when they are secure that provide their essential tells you what to do in america you prove that you know if you're not even your native

language and you're doing it better than we did it is worth asking whether or not you're actually are an ally or a vassal state so it is i think there is more more awareness in south korea as well that if they do want to make peace with the north. they do have a problematic relationship with the us cause on the one hand they do depend on the for security on the other hand it's limited what the americans are really going to have limited something more i mean south korea north korea are basically ignoring the us at this point which we long said on the show they need to do and they're taking a whole series of steps all right they're starting to demilitarize at a small scale the d.m.z. which is ironically enough the most heavily militarized area in the world they're constructing having north korea dismantle missile testing sites. the presidents of the two. j. and kim jong il and climbed a sacred mountain sacred to both north and south korea historically you know to

their culture together these are all confidence building measures all being taken. course i think thank god without the u.s. in the row about the only thing i'm worried about is what the u.s. will try to do to sabotage this burgeoning peace twenty seconds yes well i mean this case with north and south korea is a classic ok so sanctions being ineffective there was a very good article about sanctions in general in the americans conservatives this week and it's very interesting that the united states is at the same time punishing china and one can china to basically you know when there's something to say it's also putting tariffs on south korea to tell you that's another topic for another program here and we've been out of time many thanks to my guests here in moscow and in beirut this is the end of our broadcast segment stay with us for the extended version on our you tube channel see you next time and remember cross talk rules.

join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business i'm showbusiness i'll see of that. one else seemed wrong. but all wrong just don't call. me. yet to seep out this day comes after. and in detroit equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground.

mother who used leaks last leave.

when your. pool doesn't that it would look at that is to close most of a book called a bug. luck . to school students about seeing new yorkers. just for the old chap.

the russian defense ministry says. it's the downing of a plane in syria last monday. and this. week the. paving the way.