think we have a problem with men understanding no. because the ottomans can assume that if you don't then for some odd reason no one should go through something that. washing out international just coming up to half past say here in moscow back again for news and headlines and. caught on. i've been saying the numbers mean something they matter the u.s. has over one trillion dollars in debt more than ten white collar crimes happen each day. eighty five percent of global wealth you long for the ultra rich eight point six percent market saw thirty percent fires last year some with four hundred to

five hundred trades per strike it for shock and bitcoin rose to twenty thousand dollars. china is building a two point one billion dollar a i industrial park but don't let the numbers overwhelm. the only numbers you need remember one one doesn't show you can't afford to miss the one and only boom box. leaks last only got to deal. with. it when you're.

but. it's still it's. just a little. lonely

unwelcomed across town where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle what is the state of journalism well let's have a look at the new york times the paper catalogs what is called russia gate its conclusion is astounding this and much much more on this edition of process. talking some real news i'm joined by my guest here in moscow mark that he's an international affairs and security analyst we also have dimitri bobbitt she's a political analyst with sputnik international and we have glenn these and he is a professor at the higher school of economics are gentlemen cross-talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want my always appreciated let's talk about the state of journalism and let's talk about the state of the new york times in our in their recent article the same thing by now we're going to select this night now the plot to subvert an election unraveling the story the russia story so far now just a top. a little it assumes that there was a plot ok ok it's about

a ten thousand word article there's one hundred ninety nine paragraphs and paragraphs five we have a president trying to twitter outbursts that this is all a hoax and a witch hunt in the face of a mountain of evidence to the contrary have taken a toll on public comprehension and then we go down to after the reader is tortured for many many paragraphs we go to paragraph one seventy eight mr trump's frustrations with the russian investigation is not surprising he is right that no public evidence has emerged showing that his campaign conspired with russia india election interference or accepted russian money mark interesting what happened in between i don't know evidently it's not very important because paragraph one hundred eighty three i think it was contradicts completely paragraph five and the rest is i think it was no sum it up it his trumps the noels which

evidently they say there's no evidence of later has taken a poor toll on public comprehension i.e. the public isn't believing what we want them to believe about what happened the rest that hundred twenty one hundred paragraphs in between is innuendo speculation and. cherry picked intelligence assessments not even official reports and indictments that are made but have in the never been proven in any court of law anything right now and have nothing to do with russia. the problem is that the psychical is sort of old but it actually has very little facts in it you know it's all bad kind of romantic fiction let me just call it it we've had. you get this is the definition of gromit as cyber rage pool harbor kerry doll of the by and you need. to russia that sounds like you know all these.

romance novels and. reminds me of the war started in soviet and roman dollars i mean if you read the soviet or german newspaper in one thousand so just ten percent of it will be facts ninety percent it will be a bold bloody you know who won't do it and all of that what it is is that it is trying to control a certain narrative about what's going on in politics and that's what it is i mean i found it interesting i didn't find it right before the show here but the new york times did something similar about six months that you know how do you train you know and then they rewrote their entire history all over again in in this is what they're doing also here is that they're saying this is the standard narrative but if you've been watching this this program watching fox news you would have a completely different view of what russia russia russia means no i agree and i

think that this this replacement of facts with this emotional rhetoric kind of demonstrate that in the obviously building this case anything but pure evidence i guess overall i would be a bit concerned about the state of journalism opened up with because. this is just emotional rhetoric about every time they do put forward evidence we often find that you should this no evidence that there are also several occasions we see that it's been disproven be it that the for example russia the electric grids or the voting booths but what happens after these journalists obviously got a completely wrong to our journalists. are the journalist held accountable are the new self let's how we can get people been fired ok c.n.n. fired a couple of people but overall the not because the rush overall i think that it this initially get a lot of the clicks and then of the their efforts in terms of mobilizing international opinion against russia. still succeeding trump yeah. mark you know

first of all i want to equate us to march for fox there is i don't want to go on but whatever my point is here is that there are there is another america that is completely there are different there are other narratives. and i'm worried for you if you think that's romantic fiction and your love life is in serious jeopardy we need to take you out on the. road more exciting but more paragraph here that i thought was interesting and glad i was talking about evidence and the public case that mr putin succeeded in delivering the presidency to is it my or mr trump though it cannot be proved or disproved plausible case it cannot be proved or disproved look this is why did they write this article and this is the way that the legal system justice and the media should work if you're making an exact accusation you have to prove it we don't have to disprove something that you can't even attempt to

prove. the problem is that it's not just in washington it's immoral and sometimes it's an outright lie let me let me quote just russians hijacked american citizens feelings about immigration and race feelings how can you have a feeling you know then also this is my favorite the u.s. had big democratic and russian forces in the so-called cover revolutions. you know petitions the they make they sign over equality between democratic and russian if you are and they're russian then you are democratic they forget to mention that the ukrainian regime which they were asked to install has banned thousands of russian artists and writers has basically asleep in one or correspondent that we went there for a conference on freedom of speech and she was thrown out of the country sometimes detained keep. you get detained simply for coming there with journalist purposes

you know these are regime is all it's not a critic at all and that the same journalists quote sheen six months ago all here all done article the u.s. is doing the same thing there's a way the gist of the article he says we do is to say as a former cia officials who has been working for thirty years as the chief of the direction of her actions so again changes called here the yes absolutely carried out election influence at the relations and they called we keep doing it out of called so when for so you see you know it's unfortunate because it is very core of america's sense of exceptionalism of course meddling in a lead in someone else's election is wrong but when we do it when the us does it it is because of virtuous reasons no and of course this. this this idea that america has the right to do it i think that's what's annoying

the russian government as well because at the end of the. you know that's an understatement. really respective of whether or not. russia actually did it or not it is worth. the program to get at the i think it's worth having a debate about what extent it should be permitted to interfere somewhat in other selections but of course that's what the russian president also brought forward but if you have your high government official let's guess who i'm talking about you're a high government official you have a private server that is not secure don't you think every single intelligence agency in the world we've got to start looking all we founded on secured server ok that's what intelligence operations are all about so why should use of be surprised when foreign countries try to find out what's going on. called berkeley when the united states is doing the same thing around the world. twenty four seven march

first of all the i'm in the new york times defense on this racism and it's a well known fact that racism did not exist in the u.s. on till a few supposedly russian trolls on facebook posted a few racist memes since it was well no good why that's all polarized just because of these to st petersburg and now i got in on this whole thing about the us meddling in russia's elections and the long history of it to be fair the us only does it to democratize russia and every other country around the world as you know we've seen the us has meddled in more countries elections according to carnegie mellon mellon research than any other country in the world by far but on the other hand what exactly is russia accused of assuming assuming they did it which i haven't seen the evidence they're accused of hacking some e-mails that exposed the

democratic party the d.n.c. colluded with hillary clinton to rig their own primary is there any greater act of democratization than proving that the us rigs its own elections well if it's true you could imagine you know putin saying you're welcome. in it's also also if you want to look for outside meddling then you can look at christopher steele we can look at using g.p.s. and cryptically but there is really arithmetic cryptically donald trump said recently on the stump that america's allies are concerned about the release of these e-mails and text messages we can all speculate who those allies are i mean it would be and i ruin your interference by the same guy scott shane in february it writes it quite openly the new york times yes at the new york times a russian american interferences in the elections. have not been morally equivalent

and all the cool but of course don't forget who the news. of the because the americans always supported the democrats and tried to leave it the influence of authoritarian governments while russians did the opposite and and they provide the statistics if the us intervened in eighty one elections wold white and russians together with the soviet period in just thirty six i mean can you imagine them seated in their culture waiting and you know what are their criteria so there where there is good meddling and there is bad meddling and there is a good bit of that you see in the sprit ludes the star wars yes yes you know there is well there's a popular me that has been telling the young darth vader attic and don't dare attack i have the high ground that every time i hear a u.s. official say this we have the moral high ground don't you dare. i thought you were going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion and some real live stay with.

one else truths seem wrong. why don't we all just don't call. me. yet to seep out just to come after. and in detroit because the trail. went something you find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground . you know world's big partners. and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than

ever we need to be smart we need to stop slamming the door on the back and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the troops the time is now we're watching closely watching the hawks. welcome to mexico as are plentiful survival. looking forward to that's the down. yanks this is what happens to pensions in britain. as a report. welcome back across the uk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle two a month we're discussing some real news. ok now we're joined by martin j.

he's in beirut and he's a freelance broadcast journalist martin it's good to have you back on the program let's talk a little bit about what's going on with russia israeli relations in lieu of what's happened in the last week or so with the they and the shooting down of a russian jet. accidentally we're told here what has been the fallout go ahead mark. well it's at the moment it's up in the air this is a very serious subject which is really don't get in the correct amount of. media and that's largely because the relationship that israel has with russia is a very special one israel is the only western ally which is active in syria and at the moment but has a very special relationship with russia least it has recently so i think what's happening now is that we're on all the analysts and journalists are scratching their heads and wondering what's the next step now from this tete a tete with a lot of. duplication and confusing messages are coming from russia which i don't

think it's helping if i can be crittenton of who said it. but i think israel is now in a really difficult position because the specialisation ship may well have to be put on hold and a whole new new set of sort of rules may well have to be drawn up between russia and it's really you know you've got a situation now where by a tacit admission ship a tacit agreement since russia entering the theater of war in syria which allow us the israelis to bomb at will across syria now that's going to have to be drawn into question i mean putin allowed israel to do that because you have to remember israel lost so much since september two thousand and fifteen when russia came into syria you know it's lost all of its extremists in the south you know until that point things were very good for israel but now it's a little time low term what we're witnessing in my view is a sort of insecurity from netanyahu which is reaching

a new limits mean i think with the downing of the russian jet that was so. lessons learned and simple messages which came across not you and let's let's let's talk about some of those lessons here mark amien you've been watching this very very carefully has this relationship russia and israel changed as a after this tragedy the loss of life here. i would say that it should but at least from the russian president and his words diplomatically spoken since very trying to why everyone had. a little too diplomatically spoken as far as i'm concerned the russian ministry of defense made clear they said that the israeli craft can be conducting i think the two hundred eighth ill legal unilateral attack violating syria's saw over n.t. what they claim there was iran and hezbollah in syria as if syria doesn't have the

right to control its own ally you know to choose its own allies through that help to fight off israel's proxy jihadi s two hundred some attack and supposedly they did it using a russian reconnaissance plane that was frantically trying to land to get out of the conflict area as cover and then the syrian air defense. might have access what it was a russian ministry of the friends accidentally locked onto it with a with a passive radar detection it's a much bigger radar signature than the israeli f. sixteen so the russian minister says it clearly blames israel for this first of all they never should have been talking an illegal attack on syria to begin with if they had some idea that it could be a threat to their security they should have taken their evidence to the u.n. security council of course if that's the case but you know for me i'm going to deem here this has some echoes of the u.s.s.

liberty on the american that was in the one nine hundred sixty seven. were an american ship and sailors were attacked and sailors were killed ok well it's true of the comparison was made in russia but the main points on which the russian defense ministry quotes and create it in his press conference this was first they use radio planes did not want to leave the area. you know they were there and they offered help or only fifteen or twenty minutes after the plane was dull pictured second russia actually did everything to do ensure security by its actions in syria russians helped to remove the and the israeli forces from the. area broaching golan cade's and in general in the south of israel there was an agreement between netanyahu and putin that russia will help you get what we're trying to get it will get about martin j. here real quick martin i mean the damascus government has been petitioning very

heavily for more advanced anti-aircraft technology and that has been hotly debated and the russian side has pulled back do you think that the russian government now is going to change its position. oh my will to think has issued throws the debate up into the air i mean you may well as his narrative next coming weeks of russian syrian and iranian military advisers sitting around a table and saying well what can we do to prevent this happening again it may well not even be anti aircraft missiles on the ground it may work even jets in the sky because you can remember that so far until this point when israel has crossed lebanon illegally and into syria and carries out the sorties it doesn't usually have any other planes tool yeah surprise announcement is meant problems on the ground i'm wondering whether this is the point now where such people say look you know we've got an outdated decrypted air force but perhaps is the time now to look

to mr putin's for some more military aid and maybe a few assume russian jets in the sky and with with the syrian air force badges on the rear wing may well be what's needed but i think there's a certain amount of politicking going on which i think is which is which is rather dangerous at the moment i mean i think putin is probably going to use this now as a circuit to exercise a certain amount of leverage against his friend in inverted commas mr netanyahu because you know how long can this nomination should carry on whereby you have these sorties being carried out right and you know it's it's often been reported that one hundred eighteen iranian soldiers the last two were killed were not you know how long can the iranians and hezbollah and even the assad government you know continue to accept this completely illogical arrangement the strange relationship you know something's got to give somewhere ok i think that's what we meant something has to give and i want to thank you martin jay for joining us in beirut here this continue this here and glenn i think martin really brings up

a good point i mean i hate to say because it's a cliche but we're at a nother crossroads in syria. as of now the crossroads on the other hand i do think that the russian israeli relationship or survive it simply because it isn't. why would i think it could have survived but i think it's going to transform as well well and what both sides have an interest to make this thing go away with the exception he pointed out that russia should use this as a way to push it back at this release and also i think you know what he mentioned terms of this strategic patience that brashness show on this that i think there's a limit to it because of course it's and it's in russia's interest not to create so many waves at the moment as the war is coming to an end you want you know if you want as little disruption as possible on the other hand when. russia laos other countries to come in and bomb and the and put its own forces in jeopardy it has to ask yourself whether or not is actually promoting peace because foreign power will

factors in next time to british for example come and drop some bombs that will come with the assumption that russia is not going to fight the erosion is a serious solver ok to any. patients ok in the world one more topic we were. going to talk about what's going on on the korean peninsula peninsula because i think it's really really important something we've talked about repeatedly on this program if there's going to be peace on the peninsula it's going to be the koreans are determined and it's happening well we should not forget that they actually sanction war continues it will the whole of course but my point is here we have two leaders the two korean leaders that are making the right sounds making the right moves in the right optics and who is who's left out in the cold the u.s. yes they don't mean you have the distinct impression they don't like the pace of where this is going so i think the war between north and south korea is almost ended because the agreed to make a bid for their joint bid for the next olympic games and they're going to thousand

thirty two or something going to deal it's ok i don't think we know but. my point is here is that they want to end this conflict and if this conflict does come to an end there is a big question to ask when. and why would the u.s. continue to have troops in the cell and initials it was just it was an interesting piece in the hill this week where as i said i will stay conclusion at the end that the us shouldn't accept any political settlement that essentially reduces the u.s. footprint dominance in that part of the world so i think that's all that's america's interest is that entire reason although obviously well i think that was also a point to put quite obviously this week because when the koreans both north and south put forward their ideas that they would like to increase the physical transportation corridor between them both the rail and roads. of the americas told us no sorry you can't do that so essentially they're allies yeah they're all going

to have their clients when they're secure that provide their essential tells you want to conduit unmerited you prove that you know if you're not even your native language and you're doing it better than we you know it is worth asking whether or not there actually are an ally or muscle state so it is i think there is more more awareness in south korea as well that if they do want to make peace with the north . they do have a problematic relationship with the u.s. of course on the one hand they do depend on the for security on the other hand it's limited what the americans are really going to have limited something mark yeah i mean south korea north korea are basically ignoring the u.s. at this point which we have long said on the show they need to do and they're taking a whole series of steps all right they're starting to demilitarize at a small scale the d.m.z. which is ironically enough the most heavily militarized area in the world they're constructing having north korea dismantle missile testing sites.

the presidents of the two. j. and kim jong il and climbed a sacred mountain sacred to both north and south korea historically you know to their culture together these are all confidence building measures all being taken. course i think thank god without the us in the room the only thing i'm worried about is what the us will try to do to sabotage burgeoning peace twenty seconds yes well i mean these case with north and south korea is a place.