so you are from after. all if. you knew. the headlines that the russian defense ministry publishes called some that appeared to contradict israel's claim that it's jets had left syrian aspace when a russian surveillance plane was mistakenly downs' by syrian as offensive. in defiance of u.n. sanctions the european union's foreign policy chief says the drop will continue to trade with iran and make sure to kill payment channels and maintains the recommitted to release announcements came off for

a meeting on the sidelines of the un general assembly. the rights of sexual assaults in south africa now ranks among the world's highest with new cases a turning old when we hear from some of the victims. to appreciate actually trying to itself this happened so many years ago. let's get into you nothing wouldn't you know. you can find the full story saver on our website so i'll be back again with the headlines in an hour's time in the meantime safe in cairo looks of the prospects for peace in war torn libya. so the shevardnadze it's been said. they are since western powers toppled libya

strongman moammar gadhafi live in the country and in tatters and unity in libya ever be reached again while i ask. the former deputy prime minister of libya submitted its well to the militias and that's where the problem is know the number of weapons in the country i mean who knows i mean they can be twenty they can be even more than that but though most of this will be as we had inherited from the from the former regime. when the regime. opened up before the close to open up all the for for the military of people of course to have them on close to some countries even though as you said there is a u.n. in pargo but there is some countries they still bring weapons in they come to egypt the come from the united arab emirates and from other places which they come and bring more weapons to the country and of course that's that's a very dangerous interest think that the jury has announced information of the

joint force that is supposed to establish some kind of order in the city of tripoli what are its chances and why do you think if you think it will succeed or not. i think i think it has a has a chance of success. because i mean right now if you if you look at the situation over the last two weeks there is this brigade which came from the outside which for me there was just another militia but still they have put a lot of pressure on diminishes inside inside the city and those missions are the city right though they feel the so much pressure they are being threatened and of course they might be willing to play a role but of course the bands of this discord lucian of the forces that mr soros has has issued an order to to form if they will really become very serious in doing their job and if they have the power and that's the thing it is. and also i think the important thing right now the united nations mission is think being in

a much better role than they have done over the last four or five years at least now they are calling things by their names they are talking about the issues and the problems that are facing the country and also showing there is far more support from the international community to overcome this challenge that we are facing at this time so that the libyan officials are reported to van to supporting american airstrikes in the country against isis targets ship the u.s. military come back again to libya is it a good idea saying that at some point there will have to be another interaction to bring this endless fighting to an end. yeah i mean clearly there are some strikes against some. harsh presence in different parts of the country which is has been going on i mean it has been done to me regardless if you want to or not no clearly i don't want to see if serious military intervention in the country but i want to see

a serious political and economic intervention from the powers to be because all those militias clearly they have over the years they were able to make a lot of money and so their accounts they are not a libya they are overseas so they can be used clearly against them there and those people who didn't see a serious commitment from for example the united states since you mentioned that then i think there were those people who would be able to adhere to this pressure and there would be rightly willing to compromise and for coming to the solution where they will be able to get out from from the political arena getting out from the life of the people and just stay in their products until when the moment where they can be dismantled and been integrated in the in the in the bigger society so the twenty eleven revolutionaries as well as khadafi are politicians people loyal to general huffed aren't tribal leaders have recently launched a libyan peace group initiative in tunisia how do you estimate the chances to and

believe in crisis. i mean there is there is a lot of factions in libya i mean clearly i mean mr have to raise this to me is is one of those people who are causing this this problem and he had this problem by his campaign that started in two thousand and fourteen when he attacked bin ghazi and and of course the time there is a group small group of people who are really they are a terrorist group but of course this campaign has gone on for four years and it did not do any good for the country itself i'm in the city mostly dismantled and also about the same time there is there is all these groups where they are clearly bear that to be able to overcome the problem that has today only peons have to join hands together let's join hundreds if not to revenge taken place in two thousand and eleven or two thousand and fourteen whenever that is but to join hands so they can work together to have

a better future for themselves for their children for the grandchildren to general haftar who is libyan national army controls the east of the country and doesn't recognize the government in tripoli says that trouble in must be liberated he threatens to move on tripoli and when the time is right if that is the case what is the point of all this peace talks for and mediations i mean of course i mean i meant have to conclude whatever he wanted but there is no such thing as general national army i mean this is his creation we have a libya if you go to defer to the how many people are really enlisted in the army this one hundred thirty thousand of them have to doesn't have even a thousand of those people there so so he can claim whatever he want and everybody else force their claim of course you can see the spread good suppose attacking the tripoli also saying that there are another army there so so so all of these military there is no military solution to the country there is no way have to not

be able to go into tripoli the be able to. those brigades are about to be rolled into the side tripoli they are not going to be able to go to the east and of course live along the south which is right now there is a war raging between many different factions and there are also people from outside the country who they are there can you see a situation in which the government of national accord and general haftar could reach a working consensus what shit they promised a half hour or so that he would agree to bring his army under control of the government in tripoli for first of all i don't think that the government in tripoli can do because they don't control much i mean clearly don't lead in they have they have the international legitimacy which they have but the limb but the government in tripoli does not even have power of control on tripoli as a city alone for that alone about the whole east and the south part of the country so it is so to say that really the problem in libya is between mr saroj and have to

if they agreed and they resolve the problem i wish it was that simple but it is not and of course we know that have to it is very clearly i mean the last week he came out and he mentioned that he does not believe in elections he only believe that the the military is the one who should rule the country and that's an acceptable to all of the libyan people. and so there is no so there is no even a starter starting point. and so so if there is no agreement on a political way to solve this problem. nobody can sort of this proto because there is no power in libya that is powerful enough to take over the country all of them down small powers they can fight for ever and they did i mean really over the last four five years that's what they did they just kept fighting and fighting and fighting and nobody was able to win then i think the only thing we have from one of this is destruction of the country is the killing of the young people and their

innocent and the life of they became so miserable in the come to because of all of that we're going to take a break right now when we're back we'll continue talking to. the former deputy prime minister of libya discussing the situation in the country seven years after the revolution.

i've been saying the numbers means they matter u.s. has over one trillion dollars in debt more than ten white collar crimes happen each day. eighty five percent of global wealth to the rich with six percent market share thirty percent this year come with four hundred to five hundred per second per second and going rose to twenty thousand dollars. china is building two point one billion dollars ai industrial. but don't let the numbers overwhelm. the only numbers you need remembering one show you know for two minutes one can only. leave.

it when you. mean doesn't preclude the biggest and close most of the book and movie a bug. it's going strong still it's a bad scene. just chill. and

we're back with. the former deputy prime minister of libya discussing whether libya's division can we overcome anytime soon so this son of moammar gadhafi saif al islam was willing to take part in libya's presidential election diplomats working on libyan peace talks. saif al islam is a symbol of a consolation for many libyans what's your take i mean does he have a role to play in the future of libya i mean i mean any any libyan has the right if they are not convicted in a court to flow if they could not commit crimes against the country in the libyan have the right to participate in the political system of the country and for presidential the so for mr safely islam which i don't know exactly what he is i

mean the last time you know that he is imprisoned and sometimes i hear that maybe he was left but again i don't know what he has i mean he should come out and tell us where he is a few is interested in doing that so so in principle anybody who did not was not convicted for a crime in libya i don't think that mr safely slam can do that unfortunately because when he has all the power unit his lifestyle he cannot do much as my first became out and he threatened the libyan people when the revolution started so i don't think that he is really contributing figure because again because of his history the history of his father and when he has all the power when his father was in power he has all the power to do with her but he want and we haven't seen much been done by him or his father in favor of the of the libyan people i says were expelled from their libyan stronghold a year ago but just recently they've claimed the attack on the oil facility near

tripoli the terminus a church for international and security affairs outside the group is now more active and organized than a year ago should we be worried that the group will use libya's disarray to reemerge and grace stablish itself. of course the it's a very unfortunately i mean the the instant that you mentioned on the. own seed oil national company last ten days or so of course there was always these individuals who they probably did belong to the irish or belonged to somebody else who can attack the country because clearly the country is unstable unstable and there is there is a lot of people who they can commit a lot of crimes and among them is people who they say that they are part of their argument saying there is no presence and sure there is but it is they are not as a year ago or a year and a half ago when they have a whole city a territory of libya which is under control in sirte and that was fought by the

libyan be able themselves they were expelled were of course by some help from the international powers specially the u.s. but clearly this is the way to do it it is we can fight against doris because the us as an ideology is is not accepted the leave it completely reject the libya because the libyan people overall they're very modest and mother mother to muslim people they refuse the struggle for ideology but of course when there is a state of instability when there is a conditions like what we have today then clearly some people who will be able to be influenced by this by this and i don't think that there will be there even in the whole world in the coming years because nobody will be able to accept what they are teaching or what they will be willing to what they will find people here and there will be willing because of the spirit or for me other reasons to commit such crimes and maybe even commit suicide and kill other people and some people who have nothing to do with with them libya's oil production has been surprising stable

despite the armed conflict that is going on i mean it seems that yeah militias are willing to fight each other but whoever is running the oil rigs make sure they keep pumping no matter what's happening if a peaceful solution can be found to pumping oil why can't it become a broader political solution. because i think the bombing oil is of the interest of the international community it was made very clear that that has to be continuously being pumped and also the same time even those who fight these militias they need money and the only income for the libyan people is coming from oil so it is in their interest that libya will make money so they'll be able to. take more than their share for that so so no i mean clearly if you look at this this is clearly it is an international. interest they want to see the oil the continue to be pumped and they both want a president that in those militias they understand this understand they should this

is something they should not touch even though here and there in some instant to take place they will close one of the fields or one of the quote of the force and so on but no this tells you that the international community can exert its well on those people if they know but of course when they see that those in turkey where they don't really care what the libyan people live through these militias will continue so that's my next question because so many nations are actually willing to have their say on the libyan issue not just the oil pumping part. of it arab emirates turkey qatar france italy i mean you name it are they helping at all are they really interested in reconsideration in libya no they're not helping. so what are they doing are they doing certainly they are not and for sure they're the what they're doing really they are the ones who they supported this destruction or the other faction and those factions they're fighting each others as

a proxy war for those countries of course we know the conflict is going on between the countries you mentioned the united arab emirates and egypt and qatar and turkey and others and france and italy and so on and so so unfortunately those countries they are also polarized and they come in different sides of the of the factions that are fighting together and they are there who are fueling it who they are really confused lee supporting that sometimes even by their own. military to help one side against the other but all actors in the libyan political standoff are in contact with russia there's a moscow can play a role in bringing the parties to the negotiating table the same way it's seeing in syria for example. i mean differently i mean russia the united states and england and so on who they have really when they talk to those people of the again show that they are very interested in two things in a new unified libya and

a stable libya and they will be willing to support the us but they cannot support it to supply them with weapons they should to stop doing that and also i think russia can play a positive role in helping to stabilize the country but again this requires a lot of nations who are willing to do that and they are interested to see it so i remember barack obama once sat that biggest mistake of his presidency was a lack of planning for the aftermath of could atthis ouster. norway has just admitted it had no idea what it was doing when it sent planes to bomb lilia what about now i mean do you think the u.s. has a clear cut strategy in libya today. i don't i don't think that libya right now is a priority most of these countries. think libya is a priority the united states or to russia or china or to the powers to be unfortunately be slipped down into deprived of those those countries so they don't

have no strategy for it and that's why clearly the smaller countries in the world are playing a bigger role in libya to destabilize that instead of the. measure countries major powers of the world who the completely different wrong being disengaged from it so so probably i mean you know over the last month or so there is some indication maybe the u.s. is trying to engage but that's not clear to me that they have a strategy of engagement to libya so is it fair to say that all those western countries interfered bomb libya and just left is that a fair statement. no what first it meant is that these countries they came to help the libyan people during the two thousand and eleven revolution and afterward lucian successful successful in the sense of toppling the regime unfortunately as the disengaged and the left and they did not because they thought somehow that the libyan people can do it in their own clearly we have proved that we could not so

here's a painful question probably for you as well mr up because you have been a staunch opponent of khadafi all your life you were also a libya's interim deputy prime minister after gadhafi was overthrown but seventy years on the tribal balance you managed to hold is gone the country is in turmoil there's war. what's the overthrow really worth it should he should it have been done in a different way. i mean with this norway report it just gave me just gave me and other testimonies of people involved it seems that many in the west now regret helping to topple gadhafi seeing how bad things got after his his ouster. there was only one think it is i think i think what had been done in two thousand and eleven personally i think it was the right thing to do. but i wish if this in gave me continued to help the libyan people to overcome this of course right now we are paying for the legacy of gadhafi i mean i mean this is i mean this is if you

look at during the revolution he is the one who let seventeen thousand criminals and give them weapons to go in the streets and those people are some most of these missions no i still still believe that the revolution was the right thing to do because we lived for forty years under an oppressive regime who has does not value anything in the libyan life or the human rights of the libyans he destroyed the country he didn't build anything with all the vast wealth of the country again yes i know the things has been bad over the last five six years or so but hoping for the future that we will overcome all of this as libyans we realize that all the plots against us was coming from all these countries we have to overcome that and clearly hope that well we would realize that this is very important that we here move we cherish the freedom the libyan people and clearly we want a democratic state but what you call what you call back when you take the potato

ship if you take today's results and the situation on the ground today would you call that revolution and success i understand that the revolution brought down the tater ship which was not about freedom it was not about transparency democracy but you can carve hardly call what is happening now a democracy either i mean you yourself were kidnapped by some militia guy in the broad daylight is not agree not it's not like a very democratic system and a and revolution some would argue has failed do you think it was a success for i think i think it probably would need more time to be able to i mean clearly the vision was a success in the sense that brought down the regime. but we may be able so far we we felt to move it from that to a real estate is that a democracy today there is no real democracy in the ideal sense there is a few elements unfortunately even the few elements of democracy they have

contributed negative because i mean i see one of the major problems and that we have over the last few years is those bodies which we have elected who they did not do anything to serve the people of libya itself so so i think it is it is a struggle that we are going through as libyans i know it's a very painful yes to all of us. and it is very painful to our people but clearly we still there is a hope that we will overcome all those challenges especially if our international community help us. i was going to say thank you very much for sharing your thoughts on libyan reality and reality on the ground it was being great talking to you good luck with everything we were talking to or the former deputy prime minister of libya a country troubled transition seven years after the overthrow of wal-mart that's it for this edition of sophie and call see you next.

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