fun and welcome to worlds apart israel has long made the point that it puts its security and build lives of its service men above everything else and maxim that may have contributed to the downing of the russian reconnaissance plane over syria now that moscow amir as this approach of the back of israel can do to preserve the mode of accommodation they were once so proud of well to discuss that i'm now joined by him but he comes to know the director general of the russian international affairs council mr carter enough it's good to talk to you thank you very much for your time thank you for an argument now one of the reasons russia and israel of president putin the prime minister netanyahu have been getting along so well is because they both are hard core realists with very strong i would say unashamed focus on security and in good times that could lead to a better understanding but in bad times that could also provide a basis for a very sharp collision is the latter are likely. well i think that it is getting

a little bit more difficult to plea its traditional role in syria which is their role often known as broker. has always been proud of being able to preserve good relations with all the size of the continent including shia and sunni including iran and gulf states including is a terrorism by the stadiums and i think specifically talking about two years ago there was a gentleman agreement between ourselves and the ease of who. did not want to interfere into the conflict between user and iran and in exchange. made a commitment clearly an implicit commitment not to interfere into the civil war in syria now can i says on that say on that precise point of the gentleman's agreement

because the russian military explicitly now blames israel for what happened in syria even though i think president putin tried to soften that the little bit by calling it that chain of tragic events but the russian military actually alleges and intend that these railings knew what they were doing doesn't mean that the dynamic between the two will have to change going forward because if they did it deliberately then that means that the gentleman the gentleman's agreement is definitely off well i think it is only natural to see the difference in the. and forces made by the russian military and by the russian political leaders of course there are military are working very closely with the iranian contact with the sort of with the syrian counterparts about to some extent with their new counterparts as well and they have their own real so i think that these

shades of opinions are important and they can be. explain but let me tell you that indeed it's not just about the recent incident though of course it is a tragedy and you know we should do sort of that such things can still happen but the situation in syria is changing so for example. in iran the use of much much better entrenched in syria that it was two years ago and of course it is a concern for you if we take the containment of iran as israel's main objective in syria one could argue that russia has been a very very helpful partner to israel in that regard why would it done and risk this strategic accommodation it has achieved in moscow for the sake of arguably one tactical operation then you positional for he is just one element of the change in the other very important element he's a very different u.s.

position which makes is it a more confident you for your member of the position of the obama administration the administration was also trying to become a kind of a broker in the region they were builds of relations with iran they were really critical of personal relations between president barack obama and. and these are live in leader we're not really good to predict monthly and there are no the united states. stands by israel and many observers even go as far as to say that the united states a looks at the situation in the region through the not on yahoo lens of course that makes these are more confident if not more arrogant and they would like to make full use of these new opportunity to advance their positions and to change maybe not as it could but to change the terms of the gentleman agreement. that they

reached out to you said this is a known radical change but the death of fifteen servicemen almost like if we indeed assume that israel did that deliberately to sort of put the russian plane in the line of the fire. israel always makes a point that it devalues the lives of its servicemen and bob all out don't you think that it would not have calculated that for moscow to that would be an extremely sensitive point world my personal reading and my guess here as he's as good as yours i don't claim to have any insider information both of these incidents but i think that one can imagine that israelis hoped that the fact that there was. in. their current or in this current could or should to prevent syrians from you know huge allies

and the differences can they can i see that one because i've seen some articles in the russian media for example know by guys at the suggesting that all these talk about israel is just enough for it to cover out for the negligence and incompetence of the russian military personnel on the ground which ultimately allowed these to happen that's a very harsh claim but do you think politically moscow could have consciously taken a risk on its relationship with israel even to explain away such a tragic. event well you know first of all to the best of my knowledge the defense systems. and the drone to the russian aircraft were not served by the russians but there is inside syria on the ground and they are how being the syrian there already you know with our story has its own defense systems which are much more sophisticated and which are not. which are not under the control of the syrian

military so what we're talking them. boat is there are. no antiquated defense system as two hundred. allergic really fully controlled by the syrian army so even if we talk about negligence or low professionalism i think it's not really fear to blame there are military we there and we should blame the syrian military for what they have done or what they have not done properly however let me say that in my personal view it would be very ordered to see not on yahoo. puton he's relations with president putin into jersey just in order to shoot a couple of targets in syria because of course not on yahoo knew about the very emotional reaction of president putin to the incident was turkey so i was

suggesting that it is perhaps the. israeli military acting approach and the only without their part in tears for knowledge so well you know i think there was one or you know some kind of news and but here in this particular case i agree with president putin i think it was a chain or miscalculations and tragic coincidence i don't think that any wanted to planned it and it was a deliberate provocation in my opinion that's a little bit too far and i don't think that these religious should. would go for that given all the of that heat had to come from and even even now you take the you know the recent decision to supply. the hundreds to syria it is also changing to some extent the situation on the ground and definitely to the detriment of the ability or israelis to heed targets in syria with. impunity

speaking about a decision obviously israel has long objected to do you think there is still a role for mutual accommodation now that the decision has been taken i mean in the way it is implemented can russia still kind of make it up to israel well first of all we should keep in mind that. responded. with more serious matters resemble many speculated including some experts in these early. would try to enforce a no fly zone. to the north of damascus depriving israeli from in your butt you need to to hit targets in syria and would have been very very difficult situation for israelis because on the one hand it is hard for them just to reject the idea of war because i don't sense some would argue that some of the measures proposed by russia are sort of going in that direction but let's stay on

ass three hundred four for the moment the reason why i ask you this question is because. you know there is some obscurity on the part of the crumlin when it comes to the details of that transfer that i don't think was going to operate these systems and all saying and whether the syrians are going to pay for that do you think there is still a possibility that this move is temporary and that the russians will take it back when they when they leave syria in the store would that satisfy israel well first of all or the thing that in politics everything is possible. and it's clear that russia had to respond i'm sure that it is or this were warned about this decision vallance. i think that there are many modalities in the implementation of these decisions and the modalities will depend to a large extent and on some commitments that israel might or might not made in terms of its future activities on the territory of syria but let me tell you that

with all the problems not withstanding these cells of west an agreement used to work in. american sometimes complain they say that you know russians be used to this agreement that they let sit in porsches to get directly to the goal of cards but you know the agreement is too low predation so it does i think it is it suggests that there is always serve room for compromise and it's important that neither side loses fees now you mentioned before that perhaps israel was a little bit emboldened by the trumpet in this ration and tried to change the rules of the game and some of your colleagues western colleagues allege that it is put and who is acting a porch mystically and using this tragedy to. change the rules of engagement in syria and cut off israel's overflights and strikes in that country do you agree

with that and how much of an irritant has israel been to russia in that country. well i'm not sure that i can buy this position on the list for ours because of what we see today in syria he's that the intensity and the geography or is there a list. that is expanding so israel leads heaton targets not just in the south west of syria but basically. heat cars parked to go all the territory of syria and it's not just about the wars that might supply as a bowler it's about military production facilities so israelis changing at least its tactics i don't think that israel is trying to somehow. destroy barbaro i don't think that they really cure bob barr. they care about you

and i think the position of syria sort of the position of israel is defined primarily by the new tensions between the united states and iran i think this is the real problem you know we have to find some kind of accommodation a and i think that unfortunately many in israel and in the united states are seem to very annoyed about iran and its intentions well mr carson up we have to take a very short break now but we'll be back in just a few moments stay tuned. it's hard to imagine decades after the war a nazi doctor was still active. in the nineteen seventies great intel had as the

chair of its board a man convicted of mass murder and slavery at ashwood a german company great untold develops in the denied a drug that was promoted as completely safe even during pregnancy it turned out to have terrible side effects what has happened to my baby anything paul. she said is just cut short arms many so they don't mind victims have to this day received no compensation they never apologized for the suffering that not only want the money i want the revenge.

welcome back to worlds apart with anybody at the north director general of the russian international affairs council that's of course known just before the break you're mentioned iran and interviewed a senior advisor to iran's supreme leader just a few weeks ago and he got very very irritated when we got to the subject of the russian is really arrangements in syria what do you expect to be rainy and to exploit these incidents in their favor perhaps to drive the point that you know israel could never be trusted or to saw discord between russia and the israeli and some other way. were started saying that you do see a natural for anyone to make who use of this situation to deal with our friends look you know your claim to hugo to deal with israel is no you see these guys cannot be trusted to basically means that we should denounce our corporation and you should finally get to the right side of history and think that at the same

time you know that any i'm pleased many iranians are no are quite rational minded people to understand that. come not very considerably since it was easier or poor very different zones so they understand the limitations can i ask you actually about that as well because from what i understand the syrians and the iranians have their own game. in the loop at least there are some rumors in moscow that damascus and tehran who are really eager to go ahead with the labor offensive and it took some persuasion on the part of moscow to convince them not to if russia is seen as being too soft on israel don't you think about it may encourage more risk taking behavior from od their partners so to say. first of all need look let me tell you of that at least. according to my sources in these

particular cases we're quite coursers they've been known to. go into egypt so we were on the same side russians and iranians. to somehow moderate. the plans of damascus and they were successful this was done being the organization is. is off the table hala now from knol for now and again i think it's not over you are absolutely right and i'm concerned about what might happen indeed live if turks failed to implement the agreement in full and frankly i don't see that we can implement the agreement in full within the time table that they have right now for this implementation but there is a separate story. about iran saying that only one. would like to see

a shift in. closer to the positions of to her own and damascus but on the other hand. they also hold that my lady and all of a mediator and even if you want to be a mediator you have to keep good relations with both sides so again you know i'm not sure that everybody believes that basically you know should drop its current partnership with these are very old and if you don't think that russia being soft towards israel may encourage iran to be a little bit more emboldened and how it talks to russia for example well you know into the corner. and the situation for indians is getting more and more difficult literally every month just sitting and they don't have a choice there are things or even you know would take the recent

a terrorist attack in off across you know these mostly. populated sunni dominated to or here in your own it's a very serious keys and there indians have already accused both gulf states and the united states of those or critical not only natural for them it's only natural but again. it's a really serious signal can i bring you back to the syrian. war theater because we talked at length about these three hundred delivery but there is one more measure that the russians intend to take which may have an placation far beyond israel i'm talking about jamming satellite navigation on board the radar and communication system of all. of them to hear and see you said that you do not believe in the in the russian no fly zone but it actually looks quite like you. are well there are many ideas floating their own accord and they actually said that they are

intent to proceed it's not just an idea that this is a plan of action as far as and is that all izing that. what we can say for sure is the terser is not interested in the further escalation. and the position on being bleeped is to use is that a flare to you know there's some tension i think that definitely in most i would say would prefer to have some kind of accommodation with the united states. and. i think we should keep in mind that israel is important but turkey is also very important for russia and i don't think that our show will take any measures the jewel for a dollar because there are some turkish corporation right now because if turkey's oh out of the pros is if turkey is all out of the bleep do you know we have

a problem i mean there are some syrians everybody has a problem so i think that. they might. make a case. of the my demonstrate that there are there was a variety of options and they can choose from this very to whatever he's appropriate at a given moment but i think. it would be prudent to least i think that it would be if i can. take you back to these. seeming idea of the no fly zone over syria or at least the idea of jamming satellite communications there is an open secret in moscow that russia has tried repeatedly to get israel to notified about their upcoming missions with a very limited success israel usually either fails to do that or doesn't do the very last minute do you think after that incident that's gone the change it's hard to tell because of course is there is

a concern that you've been notified after it's well in advance. russians can lead this information someone who's very much trust is all about if you're quoting them don't trust. in the case of syria. it's hard to talk about us. both i think that. it would be difficult to right know or to restore between devotion military and these are the counterparts you know judge and the statements coming from the russian ministry of defense. that are military. of writing and. i don't think it's only a restaurateur i think that that is more than that after maybe there was some kind of seed of communications that means that they are likely to proceed with this intentions to job satellite communications which leads me to another question then because i interview a lot of current and former israeli officials and they all carry this narrative

that israel can strike anywhere anytime when if security is involved which is you know montra geopolitical political and military i think it's almost a social mantra right now can that mantra be changed because of the russians because that's what actually the russians are pushing forward to that this idea of jamming all satellite communications so i think that border russia can do. it. increases the costs. for these are able is it will continues. such behavior what extent i mean the one thing you know you know them denies there is but you know you thinking out their own their point it's very clear you know you for we're archer. is terms for him as to be hunted into syria. and basically using. these systems to syria it's so these systems are not going to be controlled by russians i just

that's how i read the decision it means. indeed. israeli planes can be grounded because these systems are arguably much more sophisticated the ones that syrians used to be so deep or so for these strikes for easier will go and that's why either of those will come so under both of these terms for that it's not just the israeli aircraft that's helped orating in the syrian air space without them and they damn eric and said their to do thing they will play along with this russian late new order. well of course no one who. formerly recognize their legitimacy over there are some decision they would say well you know we don't bomb them to feel that we have to abide by the decisions made by most over even bugged by bashar assad and nobody your article

turns but in practical terms stable taken notice i think that would mean that. they will need. different level of communications with the russians to avoid tension taxes because again nobody wants to the best of my knowledge nobody wants to see these really were american aircraft droned it no bomb nobody wants to see another crisis around it but rush limbaugh wants to have an impact on the really behavior. of the us behavior and the other way around so it's a very delicate game and i think that both sides have. some kurds on their sleeves that they can put on the table that it's an appropriate moment now president obama and his syrian policy was often criticized for. drawing red line is that he couldn't or wouldn't then force or red lines that bad actors in

the region would be motivated to demonstrably break i wonder if russia indirectly is also trying to draw some sort of red lines across the syrian air space that with that you know bad actors in the region or even its partners its adversaries maybe i'm motivated to contest openly you know was the key word in your question is indirectly and that makes a difference you know russia did not announce a no fly zone. never stated that there is a red light but. responded in current by supplying damascus with most of his sticky to a defense system i think this is their option approach not to state something especially if it is very difficult to. to stand by the decision

in indeed you know with so it was with obama but even in these early you know when the israelis say that iranian presence in syria is an acceptable for one doesn't mean you know they had a hand i'm not how i know they may go into you know to start a major ground offensive in suited to push out are they ready to start to real war well apparently not so you know sometimes you know these lines are good for political or ethnic. they might be misleading de facto the iranian presence in syria is a recognized by these or they don't like it they would like your arm to be alt but they understand that these particular juncture is not a realistic to expect us to his door. and i think the same can be applied to

many other. situations within syria including themselves the west including believe including what's going on to the east of the throttle so we were not there are many many. regional situations we are in positions are taken but all sides understand that there are limits and there are the lines of they cannot girls mr carden if we have to leave them there but i really really appreciate you being with us today thank you thank you for inviting me thank you randi. as our years to keep this conversation going on our social media pages i hope to syria and same place same time here while the part of. our.

one of the most important if not the most important pillars of western society is the rule of law and the equal application of the law this is now being put into down we are told now it is the court of credibility that rules whatever that means is the cabinet nomination again change. the whole thing you know we need to go back to invite more phone for something that's not self-sufficient that's also the position of the government that's the mission to the song goes in any case even if there is a number of convention so they've got to go back want it to the to this country.

was. the muppet movie. moment. the headline stone will trump doubles down on his latest claims against china telling journalists that beijing is mad today and america's upcoming midterm elections that softly he ratchets up the pressure on iran launching into a bedsit to rage against its leadership at the u.n. security council where the u.s. need to face significant pushback from our allies. in this local reading who helped . get this deal together she's trying to hold a deal together because she did it.