sophie shevardnadze the afghan war against the taliban has dragged on for seventeen years but a terror group shows no signs of defeat what are. finally and the bloodshed will ask afghan deputy foreign minister. the war against the taliban has been bogged down. in almost all afghans have grown up knowing only conflict without any prospect of peace is going to be dealing with an insurgency forever any government in kabul. to sit down and negotiate. the war torn country. to start healing. for a minister in thank you very much for being part of the show today great pleasure. is always such a hot topic of discussion. so the latest version afghan war that has been going on

for seventeen years doesn't seem like anyone close to claiming victory. how long do you think this stalemate will last. you see there is an effort to get through the what this does and the still meds militarily. that is an approach toward peace and reconciliation and one but then on the hunt. to continue it in a console i live on elements because in this war and this fight. real serious terrorist groups. in what is going to change them a sense so they are. there for the destruction of the afghan community afghan way of life but also dealt with in the region so. you know. we should focus on them peace and the consolation to you. to bring stability in afghanistan

we should also keep in mind that with the groups whose interest whose goal is to spread terrorism money and thanks to museum in that region we need to fight on that will continue as long as we can through the all of afghan leaders past present have told the same thing that this war needs to be negotiated till the very end is there a reliable taliban leadership that could actually negotiate with. i think that has been one of the difficulties of the taliban's address on the leadership because the leadership is outside the country and we have these sure to quit the show. so to reach them. and to find them has been a difficulty. you know in the past. groups who are poor peace but then also you have groups who are against these more i think there is an obvious which is and

there is a political office of follow on with who are to whom we are talking but then of course the elements within you know afghanistan they have a different approach to it. at least the alger that we have right now we are trying to reach peace with them what kind of a settlement is really staying right now what kind of concessions to the taliban in a post-war settlement do you think are feasible. you see that is something that needs to be left for negotiations because we are not. that stage we are right now the stage of facilitation so how do you best case scenario i'm sure you see probably my viscous somebody who would be. my own view but you know i need help the man needs the name assad government means to you know the ass to be compromises the two sides has to accept it's the best solution

a compromise solution but one thing which is very clear and i think that this been made clear again and again by our leadership and also by the international community has including. russian federation and the leadership that we spoke with is that that states in afghanistan is something very important something very precious and the problem has been in the past for the years and every time there's a change it's a state which has changed. it's you know as to which collapses so if we keep destruction of the states whatever happened within the structure of our state for and in terms of the governance and the way of governance you know how much accountability and responsibility and. concentration of decentralization of delegation of paul are i think this is something that we can negotiate and discuss with the on the structure of this state which we have you know put forward in the in the since two thousand and eleven pseudos and one thing that has to be kept

intact which means that. we should not go from our republic which we have people who will decide them on it with a few colors you can decide i think that is. the overall framework that we are thinking about within this framework i think there are many things for me was stations and that's how southern men should look like so when it came to obama administration it was very ambiguous about this about talks with taliban in a way in the shooting process is them being really tough militarily on taliban on the field that the current administration is actually more favorable accepting of the idea of talks that do you think these are just empty words or are they going to follow up on them. but you see even in the past the those on eleven when there was a search of the nato and u.s. forces in afghanistan that thing the surge sure was a means to an aid and the end was peace but the mean was just to bring the thought

on and to negotiate think what do you know to exert enough military security pressure on the taliban which as you know happened every bit of the war to be a few experience of this in riyadh now and if you hadn't said that the military leaders believe that it's enough to bring this insurgent they know something that has groups on the negotiating table you have to show dissolve i think even the aim of the serbs at the time was last showing distress all for the peace. but the problem was with the with the dates because you know if you announce them look in the exact thing this much provision of this much span of time of course those fellows will not fight you they will hide so for the time to come to any of this is i think one of the one of the reasons one of the difficulties that's shot so they announce the end date we're supposed to do those and then ten and we finish in two thousand and eleven that i want to look at five to four all in all just they went out to pakistan and they even then fight the americans and when the time overbet

came back right now it's different it's not only a question of only talk you know the south asia strategy if united state is score south asia's not only for afghanistan because they also recognize that the centuries that the bases of town of on the base of the mother foreign fighters should not forget the most was not from a photo. or in pakistan so i think it's sort of you know a pleasure both from pakistan on taliban both at the same time that often off base we're getting to pakistan because there's a lot of discuss this change in power but there is also a change in creative diplomacy in america so when i can say is we're ready to talk to afghan taliban directly afghan taliban is also saying we don't want to talk to the afghan government we're ready to talk to the to washington directly what happens if you are left out of the process that's a possibility. i think shouldn't be even a possibility coming in the minds of and they want me then that region or in the

united states because. of this in the past forward yes we have very. they have to fix variances off when the you know when you leave the government the central government of a country the legitimate government thing you know behind then you go and talk behind their back which has not happened and we're not going to let this happen in any case. i think the tactics of this terrorist groups on insurgent groups almost the same you know we have this. during the eighty's when i was i didn't want that to talk but it didn't suit moscow at the time and we saw the result of it to know that it was a complete collapse of the system and cover so. so they want to show them look you know we're going to talk to the americans but i think this is what the consensus is that the peace in afghanistan has to be afghan owned afghan that i'm through direct talks between the afghans themselves the others can facilitate maybe many would argue that taliban are guns to taliban are afghans so that's what i'm saying that

you know between afghans between us and the tunnel so that should be the peace and mediation is facilitation always happens and all the pieces are on the wall you need somebody you know at the level of confidence building on the last get indies because they want some gathering to do that with this and i believe in going to be full for the implemented they really understand this you know we're rather they are going to get indeed the peace agreements or to facilitate like you know why we are moscow because of the system of they've been used for it we have a forum other regional forum going to moscow pharma beside the other is the q c g which is united states and china we have the heart of a show which happens in tokyo stumble so we have multiple forests could guarantee and also can facilitate the new india so anything behind the african government would be counterproductive so you mentioned pakistan couple of times in the interview and many afghan officials that i have spoken in the past mostly you blame pakistan for the mass that afghanistan is in pakistan now has

a new prime minister in round one he seems to be more progressive very popular with the people do you think anything will change with him in power oh you know we are hoping so we really hope that you know with him not han and paul are things could change also to take glee whenever you have a change of leadership in a country there is in there for a chance to change policies so we can be looking forward to see some of a strategic changes within pakistan's. which of the box phones mindset we use if you have on a stone and piece enough around the sun and there are you know broader push toward the region in the. wrong us with whatever which has been in pakistan for many years so if we see a sign of change which we have not so far because we understand the problem some other priorities is busy and. other places but we'll hopefully we're expecting that you know even for him it will be good that if you could do something which is true this is a school not do that we had the former minister who came to kabul we haven't heard

something new because we haven't called off all what we have heard in the us open to ears just right data with us so i think the time of that is over between you know the two countries and that comes to the admission ship but we're very optimistic we think that you know you can think out of the box you know as a new person is not part of those. political parties which has been the ball in the past in the past couple of decades that we're working with them so somebody knew somebody close to military which some other but we had a month if you could use it properly so we think that that could be helpful to show we're going to take a short break right now when we come back we'll continue talking to afghanistan's deputy foreign minister. talking about the prospects of peace in this country afghanistan stay with us.

leaks lawrence lee gardner. please. please. when you. put forth a better look at the history was most of the book nudity subpart.

states of that scene. was. just chill. shit. shifts. through. fire. thank. you. i thank. you.

and we're back with afghanistan's deputy foreign minister nasser. for pakistan i'm going to so has always been a tool of rivalry with india and now we try. to cool down its relations with india so maybe that could be a big change you see that really wishing the best. it's a very difficult thing case i think this to some be pakistanis it defines the whole . you know this country has created based on this ideology of you know fighting against india or being against that but but what about afghanistan could do and that you know i remember two thousand and seven five when we were. much more

peaceful none to they even you all for can we do something for pakistan india could come together with each other on our side we have done everything possible for the both countries to look at afghanistan as not the place of language they use a place of cooperation if you countries could cooperate with each other billions of dollars out of trade would benefit for both of them because of indian goods and services on the indians technology could get through pakistan not on the sun come to russia and go to europe i think everybody would benefit you know somehow this idea of trade liberalism doesn't work in that part of the world so we hope one day it will do you know how those big powers are expression of the nuclear powers. he is trying to stabilize his relations with india and i hope it works but us standing relations have soured do you think there's a danger that they actually mean mess with the americans break even more support to taliban. but you see that i think that's something that they have to understand i'm sure they do in pakistan haas strong establishment you know some of the tree and

split the leaders of the nation they should probably know the limits of going to on top of one and on the guys and united states. so i think the whole the whole idea of south asia policy if united states is to just to try to convince the pakistanis that's what they might interest you might seek in supporting talo. this is not feasible it's not desirable for the future of this kind of to do which is called pakistan's a huge nation it's a vibrant society it's second the rich could be you know us prosperous on any other country so it's going in the same speed as south korea in the nineteen seventies when i was lagging behind it's one of the bloodiest so we hope that you know when it comes to decisions focused on should it's take the side of peace prosperity commerce trade and international cooperation rather than a not terrorist group that this think that they think that it could be as a tool of their foreign policy musically and then there is china well can it play

do you think it could play any role in peace negotiations yes in which you and i can be a major player in peace and prosperity in afghanistan china has an important in a strong neighbor up on the stand you know the whole idea of boat on the route which is unfortunately you know. bypassing of honest um but it's going south and pakistan is going north and central asia and there are links to be built within this bill done to. help on a sunny comity in future but right now security was china is involved in moscow for months but also in q c g which is the quadrata of cornish and group of china pakistan you know stephanopoulos and so they are interested they have their ways and i think they're faking the very serious of the foreign minister level that the issue of terrorism and afghanistan need to be finished. and there. a topic of afghan army. so it's spread across the country with taliban still making

capturing villages capturing military bases does to afghan military have much staying in power left and i can't answer that question you can kill me but i can answer why is it still on a defensive after seventeen years of so much investment and being trained by the world's best soldiers. you see in one hand it's. you describe the situation but does this almost reality the being spread around the country we are in off i think in each and every corner of afghanistan but the second part of this i think i can they're going to give some more explanation on the other side of it you know the all news or belt train. that. again trained and then sent to some was some part but ours is not like this they were just that it could get trained a little bit and then they start a fight so you don't have the space of you know sort of the frequent

creating going back to some sort of trainings or changing from one place to another so it's it's a way that the you see that you know you walk in you to go out so that's what's you know what he's doing and because that happened toward the end you know when i was talking about the this surge in military. forces in afghanistan to those a month it was the time also he was a surgeon belding the afghan army because of the beginning there were like twenty thousand thirty thousand fifteen thousand i'm going to some this and you know normally in these only please i think these are the ideals of international community and our friends our donors which were wrong from very beginning we told them to look into this is a mountainous country it has valleys it's so difficult to control them it's no the no small on the open plains that you can you can control it so and it's also a smaller there's a terrorist could go to the other side of the border and then they come back so the

decision to increase the i'm going army have to believe to have them fifty plus thousand that we have right now it was after two thousand and ten so if you look at this and then we also pushed the ten year old we quickly because we're getting out so this army is doing the job of one hundred twenty thousand well trained international forces including need to serve and the cost of those people like you know per person would have been something that one million dollars if you compared to what we have this is you know peanuts media so yes we have a difficulty we have been in defense of a little bit in the past because prison then you know we decided that this sure you know i just shot for peace knots you know being off and so we told the public on the look you know we respect the cease fire which they did of the beginning but they didn't do it with the. be the president the defense minister on national security council us all of the we are on the phone off friends but we need to look at this strategy that we need to really you know fight in the shabak as an

insurgent a good enough force because we're facing a force which can do that kind of can vanish and say you know that sometimes i'm thinking the taliban doesn't even want to win the war because it's so much more comfortable as a position to be seen as guerrillas and fighters for motherland than to actually run the country it's more comfortable now. we're looking at the some of the people who told me the same thing they know why i thought of one wants him to come when there's of course something we don't believe that the other one can win in the way that they define when in one thousand nine hundred six they come with a pick up some said the kabul that's not the way that we're going to be defined but you know an insurgent google always huff cohesion will always be the month to size when they are in the jungles in the mountains and in the villages because the. responsible as a government should be you know they can they can enforce they had to do violence but you know the minute they came in of course they would lose them they would be

difficult for them but i think that they think they're on a limb and that the thing that they want has been for long enough and there's nothing left in their life they have not seen you know. in the life of the day with peace like healthy a country they've been born after they were at their last words you know sort of having started there is that hope for us that this is generational change or something in the country and in the region the nation probably needs a new approach but that generation doesn't know a life without a war from day one that they were born seventeen years ago the only thing they know is war and they don't even know another way of life can exist the thing that is if you if you look at afghanistan off before two thousand and one i think that that would have been crypt through to the kind of transition of what happened because there that time that it was as i say that you know as it could be. what i need country like you know probably made us the african cup but that's not the case i'm not even if people who are living or go to war and he has which are contested by thought of what they have access to do to us in order to they saw they have access

to technology they have access to internet access to this what's happening in the cities. i think they want something new for them but one thing to you right is that you know that's why we try you know peace is costly to in kochi of the culture of peace because if you're growing with a culture of war then the water is the real life so i think that is the social difficulty that we are facing that's why you know we're trying to reach peace so we trying these these ceasefires so for those fighters who are just born into those on the other two thousand and two and now there are seventeen eighteen years old to come into the big cities and to see what those life change for the afghan people you know you have hundreds of thousands of young afghans who the guards just plain themselves and they have come up to a level that they can much anyone around the region so i think that that disparity is that within the letter and there been any us but if you want to choose to reduce the spider if you disguise i'm led to local people in the villages war associative

to some extent a ton of them to come and see the light of us change and they can be part of this changed afghanistan some of the afghan officials that i have spoken in the past have said that when i've asked how can taliban in essence win a war of rifles against modern technology because that's what it is like because taliban are more connected to people than the afghan military at this point. and we need more foreign forces to help us fight taliban do you feel that's the case would you need more nato forces were in sample to help you fight taliban t. want trump to reinforce its presence in afghanistan what expect of trouble you see i don't think you know we need to go back to invite more form force i think that's the position that's also the position of the government. that. we should do it ourselves because in any case even if there is a number of contention so they will have to go back one day to the to their

countries so on that i think it is a no but yes to stay with us. to help of honest overcome these difficulties. and to how does generational change to how it goes the these changes in countries in conflicts like afghanistan has to be generational in the sense that you know the generation of the to those unlike for example you know my sisters they went to school after two thousand and one are now she is in the for the head off needs so she needs to move with more time to be empowered to play the same thing happens to you know many of the boys and the grunts so. on in any insurgency in any conflict like this if the governments all support it and they have the staying power is then surgeons that i don't think mutely will decide that look you know we can be in the mountains we can be in the jungles for an all think it's the same like up into falk you know the if i think it's ninety one in one thousand fifties ourselves and nine hundred eighty so but ultimately to find out

that the nimble got out there would be elections there would be you know restaurants that people are going coming yes you're going to explode bombs but people will continue with the real live in our community you have to come and join our history has been difficult in the past because it was insurgent every time which has come to come so i think we want to change this and that change will happen with the new. with the believe in our partners or if it is united states if at this you know russia if it's india iran pakistan to can revive that let's keep supporting this you know with whatever they can so we can have elections you know we're going to live the way it happens now i don't know why it's if it falls if this state collapses that they would then you have to start from the very beginning which is not good for anybody. for a minister and he should thank you for this interview good luck with everything thank you very much.

u.s. president donald trump took center stage at the united nations this week the middle east was very much on his mind particularly a red for some sitting in the general assembly trumps words were simply laughable however what is happening in the middle east and beyond is anything but fun. and that.

one of my leave. to do with it. and i think that is out there. i think after. a lot about how the now growing. supernal of them are so out of a model is full of. doubt about them. i asked by the way to really. think that they did. so you have a matter. of days that i had thought about deep deep in the last well if you

siad. and with the. likes of the school was ready to be a little bit. maybe it. was somebody doesn't know it's a mask you never know what's happening and what. not

of things are. going to. be just like you know that is what i meant because that's in the muslims what he's going to do when the. top stories here on our two international. chairman kim with north korea the focus of the latest security council meeting we look at how in the space of just a year white house went from vowing to destroy the country to praising. a recall saying that the boy who assaulted me could someday be on the u.s. supreme court wife.