no problems i want to go establish friendly relations with russia because i'm sure that this is important for my country let me ask you specifically about friendly relations because the political relationship between the two countries is still very tenuous but this year we have witnessed a significant increase in bilateral trade and in tourism the number of russians visiting your country so far this year has exceeded a million and that's from what i understand. a quarter more than last year so it seems that when it comes to the people they're actually ahead of the politicians in terms of normalizing the ties between our country fortunately yes and of course. everybody all to restrung russia and other countries are very welcome in georgia and i think it's very positive that we have a good trade relations and lots of people are arriving in georgia but it's not enough if this is good but this is the. from my point of view it's very important to me because this relation is sustainable and for that we need to speak

. i mean politicians we need to discuss the problems which are creating might create some problems is the future to avoid these problems now from a strategic point of view russia is very interested in having friendly relations with its neighbors in particular ukraine because of its size in georgia because of its north caucasus location but obviously it hasn't been able to achieve that how much of it is russia's fault and how much of it is not russia's fold the fact that this very troubled relationship that it has been both countries you know first of all we have to take into account that we are living in a very difficult time when soviet empire had been collapsed and everything just have been changed relations between the people. let's say values which were just familiar for us so the new life which brought. a lot of problems you can see

in relations to we. between russia and georgia or between the ukraine and russia how much of a percentage is fall of fresh air or georgia you know i think we all make mistakes in the past i guess the point of my question do you see that just happenstance that happened that's history or do you think that it was encouraged that it was a goal of somebody policy and yes i don't i mean obviously western you know first of all we are all under illusions we georgians and they think ukrainians that which is coming from the words this is good this is not like this there are lots of good things in the worst good values but the rest some things which are not acceptable for us and i think it was an illusion faced as the second of cause. and just fighting for independence you know i think it was not right when we begin to fight

for our independence and we are trying sometimes to find. this fall in the problems which we had we were not thinking about the problems which we have inside of the country of course. after soviet emperor. just from the side of russia as there was some kind of feel influence in georgia for example i mean you know. this was quite clear and russian policy was not clear for georgia and sometimes friendly for georgia but we georgians we made the mistake part of mistakes too i think it was a big mistake to just cut the relations with russia and to focus our relations only with the west but what is really right of course this is a struggle this is a battle and of course it was a battle for influence in georgia in ukraine as a places from the western countries. pressure from united states of course u.s.

wanted to strengthen. its influence in georgia in ukraine right now it's. really to even write an l. sustained time when russia was. not so strong so i think these this this is a problem which will create some problems in our country now. there is a clear asymmetry in political and geopolitical interest between russia and georgia and i know that you said once. when you were in government you were still able to balance those out and prevent. an actual conflict from breaking out how did you do that what was your thinking at that time you know i was always absolutely sure. georgia sure there was any kind of military confrontation with russia on not only georgia but any country should try to avoid any military confrontation with me

specially when this neighbor is super power and i have enough influence is the governments it's time to stop somehow. of the present of my previous government headed by mikhail saakashvili who was the surest rusher i will afraid he just threw in a wall in conflict in georgia russia will just take into account international reaction and what was agreed to stay i think a mistake of south australia and he's. they had the feelings that the west will hope i was absolutely sure that it will not happen that was why i was trying to do my best to prevent any kind of military conflict but i am not happy even when i was in government relations between russia and georgia where not to really perfect and i feel part of my fall in this direction too now you served in several interviews

that had you been in government in august of two thousand and eight the conflict in southeast asia may have been avoided and i wonder why do you believe that because. president saakashvili if least in russia is usually portrayed as somebody who was north through irrational in making those decisions is that your perception or do you think you in fact could have been persuaded otherwise to take a different you know i am not sure that it was possible to stop the war being in the government but i think i had the chance to do it because. before in two thousand and eight in april but it was a similar situation as in august. i'm sending. a lot of people around us really just the wise the heem to take applies in to begin a war in applies the time i was quite powerful and i was successful let's say to stop here kind of arguments are under used. you know first

of all i pressed him to call to president putin and i said that we have to avoid military confrontation because it might cost the price for george and you can destroy the country and. as the people have no arguments because i was sure that for will involve the country in that of confrontation with russia world. over loose. doubt and nobody will help us and fortunately saakashvili was. a clever enough in this particular moment and he decided to speak with the president would you seem changed that incident in a later bounce in southeast asia because obviously he took a different decision to use things very important was the international situation at the time because there were elections in united states and mccain and he's

a team where very close to us really more than sure. this team was trying to assure us is that in case of war russia will be not involved in this war even if russia world ect united states will help them i'm sure mccain and he's team gave such kind of guarantees and he just trusted. the second bird to. stay alone with the people who are let's see. for war not for peace. now. mr mckeon was very sad on tearing georgia away from the so-called russian sphere of influence and this is something that president saakashvili also supported but i wonder what exactly he meant by that because i understand that he wanted to be associated with the americans politically but what about the economy did he want to

cut all trade ties with russia in the same way that the ukrainians are doing right now you know first of all concerning ukrainians ukrainians are doing right now is a salute to say mistakes we we did before we tried president saakashvili and he steam did and unfortunately government destroyed their country i don't know maybe they don't understand this but they destroyed the country they lost not only crimea but they lost their own people in two regions calling these people terrorists. not to speak with these people and those things that ukrainians and russians they really have historical very deep roots and to cut roots and to try and just to show yourselves that you are absolutely separate and different. from russians this is absolutely stupid always this is a way to nowhere i am sure that this will create more problems for ukraine

will be very difficult for ukraine what about the. things that mccain and people like him and not only a lot of people in the united states and maybe not only in united states they of course wanted just to cut all possible links of georgia with russia and the ukraine with russia how do they envisage that to be compensated because you obviously georgia need some income it could not all really enjoyed you had this is possible because georgia is really small and i want to be objective we were receiving from united states lots of money after war for example to cells and eight we received. billions but consenting to ukraine you see is that ukrainian economy have been through. absolutely because ukraine is not receiving the money which is which kind of compensates of the. problem so is always a russia which can compensate somehow this economy which exists they existed between new ukrainian and the russia and they have been things that somebody really

cares about ukraine's economy and ukrainian people those people who wants to use ukraine as a buffer zone between russia and and there was these people in this case they're thinking about big policy and they're not thinking about the people well but i'm bridging as i have to take a very short break now but we will be back in just a few moments stay tuned.

to the war. was still active. in the nineteen seventies as the chair of its board a man convicted of mass murder and slavery. a german company developed. a drug that was promoted as completely safe even during pregnancy. it turned terrible side effects what has happened to my baby anything. you know she said is just cut short mimics a little mind victims of to this day received compensation they never apologized for the saw something that not only won't. i want the revenge.

welcome back to worlds apart because georgia politicians you know. just before the break we were talking about the ukrainian government's current government's efforts to cut all ties with russia and i don't know if you heard just the other day. they banned all russian literature not only contempt for literature but from what i understand even classic literature like tolstoy and dostoyevsky which they call russian cultural products and i can see you smirking but this is actually a very unusual i would say on precedented social experiment do you think it is actually possible to purge all things russian from the ukrainian society. this is a stupid absolutely. if your cranium government and it's you know it's a sad and the funny it's the same time what they're going to do to burn the books russian books you know just to ban them they don't have to you know i'm not sure

because if you ring their literature i musical. or tolstoy or something like claim was all going. next day you can burnings the books and this is this is a very dangerous really really about ukrainian people because the government chose their face. a bad boy ten years ago when the events in south ossetia happened when the russia. when had to penalize not just mr saakashvili but actually all georgian people by recognizing the dependents of those two breakaway republics i'm sure the russian sentiment was very very strong and they have even the saakashvili government. didn't go all that down that route why do you see ukrainians reacting in such such an extreme fashion to all things russian because i understand the trauma of crimea understand the trauma of the war

but i think georgians have been through all of that and yet the reacted somewhat differently you know first of all and sending crimea as crimea was a first awful mistake of the ukraine and ukrainian government and people who came after my dad because when you're coming into the poland us things that all people should leave the crimea all russian language should be just. premier of course the people who were living there they decided to change their just to belong it's a consenting rusher of georgian relations into cells and eight it was very painful of course first of all it's difficult for me to say that but. let's say i'm brave enough to say that yes there was a main just person who begin a war really gave the order and rush. there's absolutely no

love lost for mr secretary in russia but i think people now can appreciate that he never went as far as cutting the ties which i don't think so maybe it was not so wheeze a bull it was no so just both for many russian people but russia really enjoyed was successful to create absolutely to russian feeling especially in generations so he was trying to do this. yes fortunately not fortunately so what is very important to say yes of course you mention a clinician of a president to say to you this was a very painful for me and for georgia for a cunt. and for the people i think it was a mistake from russian side i think it was an over reaction from the side of pressure and mistake because it brought in a very difficult situation and we have to find right now solution how to find

solution between russia and georgia between. georgia and. georgia but i hope that members the less i see that there is a political will in russia or to find. some possible ways of improving aggression joy generations including conflict solutions you know a few years ago when i was interviewing former president dmitry medvedev who made that fateful decision it seemed to me that he was actually kind of open to the idea of georgia regaining its territorial integrity i mean he obviously it was up to the people of those breakaway republics but it wasn't the closed file the way crimea for example is a closed file for russia do you believe that or is that a yes i relieved because pleased to hear it again from you because when i met. with him and put in when i spoke with him he openly in front of the journalist to

mention that if georgians and. georgians. decided to find. any kind of. political field any kind of decision how to leave the country in which countries they want to leave russia will not create a problem and i see that president putin and some people in russian government they are really ready to try to improve this relationship and i think that what georgians should do first of all we have to speak with us we have to speak with the sessions and of course we have to speak was. russians because i am sure that the key for these conflicts solutions. are exist but there are different keys one key and the one key to the whole me. and one key exactly in russia and

georgia in the current prime minister mahmoud tugs a said the other day that georgia intends to be a member of nato once the circumstances allow or do things statements like that are conducive to that reconsider process that you're dreaming of course of course not and you know there was a time before to cells and eight when i was once that advocates of georgian membership in nato and i had my own arguments as that time but it was an eight changed absolutely situation i was a grown political should take into account the reality which is on the ground which had been change and you can say the same what you were saying ten years ago right now we have russian military bases on georgian territory. what will happen if you will even imagine that one day georgia will be a member of nato it means a georgia will be do i did it in two parts this is absolutely unacceptable now since dimensions they are already i think it's clear that nato. figures front and

center in russia's relations with both georgia and the ukraine and that is partly the reason what happened to those countries of russia's policies towards those countries because russia clearly sees nader as an existential threat and in the grand scheme scheme of things i think russia believes that it can sacrifice its relations with both georgia and ukraine in order to protect itself i wonder if the same is true in the reverse perhaps for both of these countries that you see of russia as an existential threat which only needed can protect you from you know that russia is the existential the threat for georgia it will be clever and brief enough to speak openly about the problems which exist i'm sure that will find solution with russia sure that will have normal relations with russia russia have a right to be sure. he's its. borders will

be in the will not to bring the straits full of them and in today's situation we should take this into account because the world have been changed a lot and very seriously and i'm absolutely sure that if georgia wants to restore territorial integrity of georgia wants to be a. normal country and to develop the normal way georgia should be clear. georgia should not be member of nato first of all nobody will just. georgia to be a member of nato when we have a complex when we have two russian military bases this is paul policy and them very said today's georgian government they continue with this illusory declaration of sending georgian membership in nato and they are not brave enough to begin with dialogue and communication with the russian president and with russia to georgia

nato membership is not acceptable it doesn't mean i also ask you about crimea or heard you say that you believe. crimea is a closed file for russia that it will never go back to your green obviously and most of the people in this country feel the same way having said that i think there is also. you know a challenge for russia that sooner or later this country will have to reach out to ukraine and short of returning crimea it will have to make certain amounts to restore some sort of ties with the ukrainians. can i ask you as somebody who is standing at the sidelines i'm sure you don't have a particular stake in russia's fate or ukrainian you can be objective what should be russia do what lessons perhaps it could learn from its previous policies in order to. accommodated to the ukrainians to the degree that would allow it to protect its own interest but also be more respectful of its neighbor you know first of all i think that even the government of ukraine they know quite well that this

file a concern in crimea has been closed all day i remember quite well when we had some discussion and one military american asked me about crimea and said everybody should take into account that in crimea they're not pro russians this people who are living in crimea ninety percent of these people or maybe leave it to less but they're not pro russians they are russians and if you are not to protect their own interests and their language and their nationality of course these people will decide to leave or not in ukraine but in russia what consenting russia and ukraine i'm absolutely sure that as georgia and russia one day will leave in peace even good relations and good neighborhood relations the same will be with the ukraine and russia but before it will be quite painful time for ukraine and ukraine russian relations in case of georgia is things that in georgia necessary to change the government and to brings the people into this is obviously not something that

russia should or should no no of course not i mean. no case i mean georgian people should change the government about how how should the poster of the russian state change in order to allow both you know geography and destiny to be pursued so to say because obviously many in ukraine and many in georgia do feel that russia's presence is too overbearing and perhaps that they that they perhaps lack some space to develop their own country you know if you know if you are comes change a good joke a few changes you should not try to change anybody even if your children you should try just to explain what is important what is right what is not in in reality and in the political. live if georgia will decide to change russia and russian policy i'm not sure that it will be successful in that but if we will have

a good dialogue was fresher and if you will find some spaces where we can cooperate in this case that russia will be interested to have normal relations always. clever political and open minded politicians they should find the spaces where you can begin to move for the solutions of the problem step by step this is a very difficult issue and this is a very difficult job but we can do it and what i want to stress is one think in. a moment only people should change elect leave the government but in my country i want to see the government bring by my people into the power core will be not pro russian and who will be not prole american or australian or i don't approve what but which will be pro or georgette and which will think about georgia's national interest which will be bringing females to say that yes we want to have friendly relations with everybody we have to have good relations with the

western part of the world and the western community but we need to change our relations with russia impose a two way we have to cooperate we have to make a dialogue and we have to be close with this country because it's in the interest of. motherboards and as a really hold the majority of georgians share your message it's certainly pleasing to hear that as a russian thank you very much for your time and i encourage our viewers to keep this conversation going on our social media pages alan hope to see you again same place same time here on worlds apart.

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cool stuff is that it's about seeing new yorkers. just chill. with the lawmakers manufacture consensus instead of public wealth. when the ruling classes project themselves. in the final merry go round lifts only the one percent. nor middle of the room six. million real news real

world. is a. church secret indeed priests accused of sexually abusing children can get away with it quite literally i like to call this the do graphic solution so what the bishop needs to do then he finds out that the priest is is a perpetrator is simply moves him to a different spot were the previous standards not the highest ranks of the catholic church help conceal the accused priests from the police and justice system to that end i know that's not good as the i intend to include at tuesday's out and. his faith. that up the nation would have made

a pushover on this if not in the life of that innocent civilians and by all means we can be you know what i think even you know it all and you know i'm. committing a crime was to say is international along the same can sell out of its lives here as you mentioned and again also a lot of principles and values. the stories shape the way donald trump took center stage at the united nations general assembly in new york breaking one bold claim after another bus. i recall saying that the boy who assaulted me could someday be on the u.s. supreme court wifey family my name had been totally and permanently destroyed after a lot of emotionally charged committee hearing donald trump orders a.