political science at the university of rhode island all right gentlemen let's talk about cutting the already and not we're we all know the poor state of relations between the west and russia we both know that very well. how do we get out of this cold isaak or we just have to accept the status quo for a very long time and. i'm afraid it's the latter. i don't see any political figure on the horizon in the west who could take the lead and show that kind of innovative thinking that would lead to an era of mutual benefit and potential reconciliation between the east and west because i do think in the long run it will happen. because there's a lot of general frustration among many knowledgeable politicians and academics and observers but there's no one willing to step up to the plate as it

were and assume that responsibility basically of saying you know the the emperor has no clothes we need a different we needed a nixon to go to china or something something like that yes and to see it through the hope had been that trump would be able to do this but he seems to be bamboozled by his own advisers and unable to extricate himself from the general morass that is washington today. when there's this old marxist slogan which i wrote a lot which is pessimism of the intellect optimism of the will so you are right to be pessimistic about the concrete juncture in russia's relations with the west it's very difficult to see in the media full of what you have are enough that we need to you know optimistic in terms of future prospects for this but in a very. russian thought that russian. so relations before.

trying. to situation one. is ok there is lots of. specific issues that dispute between russia and the west at the moment but there is something more general going on this and that which is that the west is trying to to isolate a marginal russia and not succeeding by the way as an international player and that's what's happened in the past we're going to be talking about some some some history in just a moment i hope one lesson is that history is that if you want to solve problems problems of peace security stability you have to think that fundamental lesson will actually come to the full when this side of the pond people that i talked to here there is what's the point in trying to talk they don't want to talk isolation the soviet union was sanctioned in isolated it's not something that's new keir i mean. i think that the willingness to reach out to him the russian hand go out to the

west is quite limited right now what's the point when's the next round of sanctions based on what you've never produced to us or to the public i think there's there's a lot less of a sense of initiative on the russian side now after all this. true and. there is this sense that there is the know the idea that the ball is in the other person's court and we're waiting it to for it to be law back but one of the things that i think distinguishes this period of hostility from previous periods is the lack of basic respect for the other side. and there's a sense in washington among people who seem to have lost touch with reality and and lost any awareness of history specifically that.

respect somehow is due only to people who have power who can hurt you. but. respect actually has to go deeper it has to be a more general respect and awareness for the cultural and cultural tradition of other other people not only for what they how they can potentially harm you and until we regain some broader sense of how russia fits into the west is part of the western community i'm afraid we won't be able to talk to each other yet if you mentioned history here we have the enter bursary of the new new agreement preamble to the start of the second world war in europe what can we learn from that because there's one big people always remember from that they don't always remember the year they don't

always remember the characters and watch it on cable t.v. they screw it up all of a piece of it right now that we are in a moment now kind of echoing what nicholai had to say is that it even venture forward to try to get involved in some kind of dialogue to cut this gordian knot you are committing that is a really bad place to be. it was always felt to sign the lesson of history is that people don't learn from history now often he was wrong i think the lesson from histories to people do learn from history but i learned the wrong lesson and the wrong lesson that from the munich crisis is that peace. is wrong that concessions are wrong completely the wrong question there's nothing wrong with appeasement in the current international conjuncture that's what we need we need appeasement we need concessions we need negotiation we need to come in and they start to lessen the mean across this was that you could piece hit the analysis but that doesn't mean to say you can't a piece of a tektites is old the old appeasement comp. noble foreign policy which which

was before before the i mean across this so let's learn from history let's learn the right lessons of history. we're going back back to what i said about respect respect presume that you are trying to listen to what the other side has to say and that's where dialogue comes in. dialogue again presumes that two voices are speaking not just not just one voice in an echo chamber taking a public stand too much is taking place in the public eye and not enough where it used to be international diplomacy in the in the quietness of rooms where people can actually negotiate agreements with each other and then bring them forth when everything is done in the spotlight we see from. reverie thing in the news

that the it brings out the worst in people you know. if it does fall too much public display diplomacy and international it would be like this is called public diplomacy i mean it's almost intentional they're intentionally sabotaging it i mean it is there is no there's no genuine went up to be interested in doing it because unfortunately going back to this term or mis understood in and wrongly remembered term appeasement is that your when you if you get involved in a dialogue you're involved in a dialogue with some of that is no moral stature and that's the problem we have right now i mean i like nixon went to china i mean two very different systems china had just gone through the was going through the great cultural revolution but nixon had the guts and foresight to do we don't have the problem of public diplomacy is it it's a prisoner of domestic politics more often the problem. the question of respect is fundamentally i also think it's

a question of trust. restoration process restoration of respect. some political. your earlier point about well you know how much longer should russia continue to hand up the had the friendship of the friendship and cooperation when we can see what happens i've been really impressed by the persistence with which to russia russian federation putin love for us continue to. continue to try to find anyone who actually found points to meaningless in the waning days of the obama administration two different cease fires were set up for syria and well we know what party broke those ceasefires because they didn't want to see russia on the same equal diplomatic playing field that was intentional and we had it wrong agreement and we had the irani ground we. much of what has

happened with north korea is also thanks to the persistent efforts of russia to foster a peaceful resolution. on that principle. so russia has a sensible policy and i do believe that the rest of the world comparing russia's policy with the united states and and some of its european partners sees that so that even if you have to take public stances. in favor of policies that are not sensible in the long run your own national interest dictates a more sensible approach and that brings you willy nilly closer to russia you know it's unfortunately we have no assistance zero sum game one side wins one side loses and it's black and white but that i mean you can go through the great power rivalries of the the seventeenth eighteenth nineteenth century and then even in the

early twentieth century we've never had a complete zero so. you know it's some point you know going back to national interests you should be able to find your national interests and be able to co-exist with your adversary well even your national interests that there are just there's no reason why it should. i mean. that's a political choice that's a choice. but political choices and. a foreign policy that is based on on respect mutual respect creates a positive dynamic creates what social scientists call a virtuous circle so you can. by fostering hostility lead to the withdraw all of. the good really of the damaging of relations and of trust or you can reverse that cycle and lead to a positive this is zero sum game concept is really in the middle where you they're

on one side of it or another and moving in that direction so i think just as we have been moving in a direction which heightens tension and creates crises by reversing the policy that we're now doing that will lead us in the opposite direction hold that thought here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on russia's relations with the west state with our. what politicians do. they put themselves on the line they get accepted or rejected

. so when you want to be president. or somehow want to. have to go right to be the person that's what the forty three of them or can't be good. interested always in the waters about how. am i should and. that up a nation would have made a push to ruin this if not to the life of that innocent civilians and to help by all means we can be you know part i think even you know it all and you don't. committing a crime was the sec is the national mall of the said guess what it's six he says he'll months and again also a lot of principles and values. good by. the

church secret indeed just like priests accused of sexually abusing children can get away with it quite literally i like to call this the geographic solution so what the bishop needs to do then he finds out that the priest is is a perpetrator is simply moves him to a different spot were the previous standards not known the highest ranks of the catholic church help conceal the accused priests from the police and justice system to that it has not been as the i intend then i include out it used this out in the . stuff. as.

welcome back across the uk where all things considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing russia's relations with the west. we're going to go back to jeffrey one of the things where russia in the united states popped up over the last few days was president trump's address to the general assembly of the united nations you talked about all lot of things we could make an entire week of programs on everything topic that he mentioned but what caught your eye when it came to russia what the fault that speech prompted me is that we should actually stop watching. speeches stop watching we shut because watching trump speak gets in the way of understanding what he's trying to say so i think we should actually concentrate on the on his tax revenue on these performance so if you read the text of his speech to the u.n. what what what struck me about it was how ideologically driven trump is as

a political leader and the figure is if you look if you actually deconstruct the ideological perspective he's putting forward in that space and he talks about sovereignty a nation states patrick is a critical realist and his kind of like vision of global politics isn't actually that much different from the vision of russia to be one of china the division of other countries but of course at the same time he's doing he's saying yeah let's return there's a return to nativism and co-exist happily together he is also trying to boss the united states to try to boss to whole world like it used to trying to interfere friend here deeper to deploy its power now what that tells me is this is the true. a transitional figure in this process of the movement away from american globalism ideologically and politically so in a way that kind of gives me hope for the future that this is just a thought. and the direction. is in that is in the direction of

a kind of reconstruction of relations with the rest and you know the fundamental thing which we need is the integration of russia into the western system that's the father of much of the meat. i agree i think that well i agree with some what you said i think we are seeing a conflict right now. and it could be as you say transitional but we could be there could be. a reaction of what's to trump called the globalist forces but one of the reasons that in this speech and in his healthy speech. the text is ignored and the gaffes and. that is is highlighted in the american media is in order to distract from he is the sensible muslim some of his idea of sort of and to portray

him as a lunatic and with him by portraying him as a lunatic all of the ideas that anyone associated in any way with being critical of the democratic establishment or so. i would call the the lobel the global liberal internationalist establishment in the united states is shocked at the fact that it is it is no longer seen as it's no longer in power and no longer universally reviewer's in the united states and and but it is retrenching and it's not giving up and it will see this fight. with to the end it's very interesting after the helsinki summit noticed it was quite glaring to me is that even his inner circle the people around him did not defend him in public or tried to explain nikki haley after the general assembly she went on the on the

cable stations and tried to convince them that the people of world were laughing with trump and not against him or her or not it is an expense and i think that's a together collectively what you're saying is very interesting because you know. it's going to sapphic that you know one of the problems that's he's got money problems. but one of his problems is that you know he plays into the hands of the liberal globalist critics by firstly by embracing elements of the you know the neo con adventurous militarist kind of a program second they trampling all over. yes. multilateralism in every car and every at every opportunity yes and that's not that's not right you know it's possible to combine a concept of global politics based on nation states based on sovereignty and all of that kind of thing with sensible multilateralism which includes united nations includes groups of various kinds yeah it's a prerequisite if you're going to have

a multi serious multilateral agreements you need them to be among nation states that are sovereign going to feel themselves to stand for something that they know what they're standing for the whole discussion of sovereignty was quite peculiar in many ways because he was talking about how every country has a right to defend their sovereignty it's their responsibility to do so but then he was threatening the sovereignty of other countries that was rather contradictory you spent some time recently in ukraine elections are coming up western media doesn't talk a lot about ukraine these days what's going on there what's the political situation and what can we expect that the elections and ukraine's relationship with the were . in russia it's about ten questions and one. we started this discussion with the phrase the gordian knot and at the heart of the gordian knot between russia and the west is ukraine it's probably the central issue of contention

between them. that situation i fear is only going to be exacerbated next year at the end of this year next year precisely because of the presidential and then parliamentary election presidential of elections in march and then parliamentary elections in the fall. right now the candidates are running to their respective extreme corners and that leaves the middle position the one where dialogue could take place in a lonely place right now. who in twenty fourteen. ran as the candidate who would end the war in a matter of hours and he could have gone to the don there was still that opening where he might have been able to do that yes and and he vall said he would and he

would eat but crucially he ran as a candidate for peace. that peace has now been formally sanctioned as a resistance to russian aggression and until russia is defeated in this war that's increasingly the terminology and it is really game right and and this is this is his new campaign platform. but. is running at six or seven percent of the popular vote. i think his strategy now has to be to shore up his base which is very much a regional base that it's they in the west the only chance he has in my opinion of reaching the second round is to dominate and win in the west and gain enough votes that way and then veer sharply to try to reach out to the east and south

where his popularity is nil essentially you know. is this another frozen conflict you just like i can't see really a way out i mean i mean if you give in the domestic politics in the rest of ukraine or compromises for both you can't compromise on leads issues i very much hope is frozen conflict seems to me at the moment in the short term better than the us you know the prospect of. what history back into this. crisis one thinks of comparisons off my between you know the crimean secession from your crying and the soon to learn german succession was actually the wrong historical analysis of the correct text or commonalities what happens six months later. when when hitler sponsored the breakup of the czech is it looks like you have a need to find the slip and german troops march into into prague now you compare

that with what russia's role in ukraine recurring crosses did russia occupy you cry and take up a lot of the country which which which could have done you. know what it is to try to find. somebody who has seen him if you. look with the showing of the where. he think it should be you know you have this and thirty. of shipping. you haven't lost it. the book hit the wall with the books in your book still you say no i do know what the movie. was the latest movies in the put this. stuff no worries and you write so you have put. listeners through some really stupid.

you know world of big partisan lot and conspiracy it's time to wait to dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door. and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now we're watching closely watching the hawks. know you don't accept the slow just as well that's because it's illegal business it's. the seat. of television.

and i don't buy the stuff i put it on me. while i'm somebody that doesn't know it's a mess you never know what's happening and what they're shooting whether they're scared. out of the. when the.

three pm today from moscow was washington could be open talks with. the commander of the group who rejects the possibility of any negotiations. the leadership of the taliban doesn't want to negotiate with the americans and has never wanted this and the leadership of the taliban never gave permission to any member to negotiate on their behalf. today ron says it's launched missiles against militants in syria it believes. deadly terror attack on

a military parade in iraq. professes is love.