minute with the next world news update from the international a moscow. as a zombie bank plagued that spilled over to zombie corporations what is a zombie bank is on the back of the bank that's technically insolvent it's kept alive by bailouts continuing rolling balance from the central banks because of their friends in the other the banks the commercial banks the lawyers the h.s.b.c. b.n.p. citibank they're technically insolvent they're to live in a zombie. rolling the bailout they call quantitative easing or some other name that they come up with every few months. join me every day on the alex salmond shill and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you have.

a low in welcome across soccer all things are considered i'm peter lavelle on this edition of the program we discuss russia's relationship with the west ukraine and a lot of history. knocking cutting the gordian knot i'm joined by michael c. or moscow geoffrey roberts he's a historian senior fellow at the helsinki for advanced studies and a member of the royal irish academy and we have nick like petro he is a professor of political science at the university of rhode island all right gentlemen let's talk about cutting the gordian knot where we all know the poor

state of relations between the west and russia we both know that. how do we get out of this cold isaak or we just have to accept the status quo for a very long time and. i'm afraid it's the latter. i don't see any political figure on the horizon in the west who could take the lead and show that kind of innovative thinking that would lead to an era of mutual benefit and potential reconciliation between the east and west because i do think in the long run it will happen. because there's a lot of general frustration among many knowledgeable politicians and academics and observers but there's no one willing to step up to the plate as it were and assume that responsibility basically of saying you know the the emperor

has no clothes we need a different we needed a nixon to go to china or something something like that yes and to see it through the hope it been that trump would be able to do this but he seems to be bamboozled by his own advisors and unable to extricate himself from the general morass that is washington today. when there's this old marxist slogan which a lot which is pessimism of the intellect optimism of the will so you are right to be pessimistic about the common conjuncture it russia's relations with the west it's very difficult to see in the media forward whatever and i think we need to you know optimistic in terms of future prospects for this but in very. rational thought out russian relations before. china you know the situation. is ok there is lots of. specific issues that dispute between russia and the west at

the moment but there is something more. the general going on is in there which is the west trying to to isolate a marginalize russia and not succeeding by the way as an international player and that's what's happened in the past we're going to be talking about some some some history in just a moment i hope one lesson is that history is that if you want to solve world problems problems of peace security stability you have to involve russian i think that fundamental lesson will actually come to the full when this side of the pond people that i top to here there is. what's the i log again presumes that two voices are speaking not just not just one voice in an echo chamber taking a public stand too much is taking place in the public eye and not enough where it used to be international diplomacy in the in the quietness of rooms where

people can actually negotiate agreements with each other and then bring them forth when everything is done in the spotlight we see from. reverie thing in the news that the it brings out the worst in people the. public display diplomacy and need to mush know if this is called public diplomacy i mean it's almost intentional they're intentionally sabotaging it i mean it is there is no there's no genuine went up to be interested in doing it because unfortunately going back to this term or mis understood in and wrongly remembered term appeasement is that you're when you if you get involved in a dialogue you're involved in a dialogue with some of that is no moral stature and that's the problem we have right now i mean i like nixon went to china i mean two very different systems china had just gone through the was going through the great cultural revolution but nixon had the guts and foresight to do we don't have the problem of public diplomacy is

it it's a prisoner of domestic politics more often the problem i grieve the question of respect is just fundamentally i also think it's a question of trust. restoration of troughs restoration of respect. some political movement for. your earlier point about well you know how much longer should russia continue to handle the had the friendship of the friendship and cooperation when you know we can see what happens i've been really impressed by the persistence of it's to russia russian federation. putin lover of continue to actually try to. continue to try to find any way of actually found points i mean in the in the in the waning days of the obama administration two different cease fires were set up for syria and when we know what party broke those ceasefires because they didn't want to see russia on the same equal diplomatic playing field that

was intentional and we had iran agreement and we had the iranian grand we. much of what has happened with north korea is also thanks to the persistent efforts of russia to foster a peaceful resolution on that on that principle. so russia have a sensible policy. and i do believe that the rest of the world comparing russia's policy with the united states and some of its european partners sees that so that even if you have to take public stances. in favor of policies that are not sensible in the long run your own national interest dictates a more sensible approach and that brings you willy nilly closer to russia you know it's unfortunately we have no assistance zero sum game one side wins one side loses

and it's black and white but that if i mean you can go through the great power rivalries of the the seventeenth eighteenth nineteenth century and then even in the early twentieth century we've never had a complete zero so. you know it's some point you know the going back to national interests you should be able to find your national interests and be able to co-exist with your adversary well even your national interests there there's no reason why it should. i mean. that's a political choice that's a choice. but political choices and. we need to go along with a foreign policy that is based on on respect mutual respect creates a positive dynamic creates what social scientists call a virtuous circle so you can. by fostering hostility lead to the withdraw all of. the good really of the damaging of relations and of trust

or you can reverse that cycle and lead to a positive this is zero sum game concept is really in the middle where you are on one side of it or another and moving in that direction so i think just as we have been moving in a direction which heightens tension and creates crisis. by reversing this the policy that we're now doing that will lead us in the opposite direction hold that thought here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on russia's relations with the west state with our team. that officially. made a push to ruin this if not through the logic of that innocent civilians in them by all means we can be you know i think even you know. and you know. committing crime was the sec is a national long this is

a lot of it's six. months and again also a lot of principles and values. you know world of big part of the law and conspiracy it's time to wait to dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door. and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. welcome back across the uk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing russia's relations with the west's.

can we go back to jeffrey it was one of the things where russia in the united states popped up over the last few days was president trump's address to the general assembly of the united nations he talked about all lot of things we could make an entire week of pro. graeme's on everything that he mentioned but what caught your eye when it came to russia what what the. speech problem is that we should actually stop. trump speeches we should stop watching we shut because watching trump speak gets in the way of standing what he's trying to say so i think we should actually concentrate on the on his tax revenue only performance so if you read the text of his speech to the u.n. what what what struck me about it was that how ideologically driven trump is as a political leader and the figure is if you look if you actually deconstruct the ideological perspective he's putting forward in that space and he talks about

sovereignty a nation states patrick is critical realism his kind of vision of global politics isn't actually that much different from the vision of russia to be one of china the vision division of other countries but of course at the same time he's doing he's saying yeah let's return there's a return to nativism and co-exist happily together he is also trying to boss. trying to boss the whole world like it used to trying to interfere friend here deep to deploy its power now what that tells me is this is that trump is very much a transitional figure in this process of a movement away from american globalism ideologically and politically so in a way that kind of gives me hope for the future is that this is just. going for and the direction of this is in that is in the direction of a kind of reconstruction of russia relations with the rest and you know the fundamental thing which we need is the integration of russia into the western

system that's the fog of mental thing we need. i agree i think that well i agree with some what you said i think we are seeing a conflict right now. and it could be as you say transitional but we could be there could be a. a reaction of what trump calls the globalist forces but one of the reasons that in this speech and in his healthy speech. the text is ignored and the gaffes and. that's what is is highlighted in the american media is in order to distract from he is the sensible ness of some of his idea of and to portray him as a lunatic and with him by portraying him as a lunatic all of the ideas that anyone associated in any way with

being critical of the democratic establishment or so. i would call the the lobel global liberal internationalist establishment in the united states is shocked at the fact that it is it is no longer seen as it's no longer in power and no longer universally reviewed in the united states and and but it is retrenching and it's not keeping up and it will see this fight with to the end it's very interesting after the helsinki summit i noticed it was quite glaring to me is that even his inner circle the people around him did not defend him in public or tried to explain nikki haley after the general assembly she went on the on the cable stations and tried to convince them that the people of world were laughing with trump and not against him ok or not it is an expense and i think that's it together

collectively what you're saying is very interesting because because you know. it's going to soften that you know one of the trumps problems that she's got many problems but it. but one of the problems is that you know he plays into the hands of liberal globalist critics like. sleep. elements at the. adventurous militarist. a program and second they tempt trampling all over the. us. multi-lateralism in every and every at every opportunity yes and that's not that's not right you know it's possible to come by a concept of global politics based on nation states by some sovereignty and all of that kind of thing with no sensible multilateralism united nations includes groups of various kinds yeah that's about it it's a prerequisite if you're going to have a multi serious multilateral agreements you need them to be among nation states that are sovereign going to feel themselves to stand for something that they know

what they're standing for well the whole discussion of sovereignty was quite peculiar in many ways because he was talking about how every country has a right to defend their sovereignty it's their responsibility to do so but then he was threatening the sovereignty of other countries that was rather contradictory you've spent some time recently in ukraine elections are coming up western media doesn't talk a lot about ukraine these days what's going on there what's the political situation and what can we expect that the elections and ukraine's relationship with the west and russia that's about ten questions in one go ahead. we started this discussion with the phrase the gordian knot and at the heart of that gordian knot between russia and the west is ukraine it's probably the central issue of contention between them. that situation i fear is only going to be exacerbated next year at the end of this year next year precisely because of the

presidential and then parliamentary election presidential of elections in march and then parliamentary elections in the fall. right now the candidates are running to their respective extreme corners and that leaves the middle position the one where dialogue could take place in a lonely place right now. but who in twenty fourteen. ran as the candidate who would end the war in a matter of hours and he could have gone to the don there was still that opening where he might have been able to do that yes and and he vall said he would and he would eat but crucially he ran as a candidate for peace. that peace has now been formally sanctioned as

a resistance to russian aggression and until russia is defeated in this war that's increasingly the terminology and it is really game right and and this is this is his new campaign platform. but. is running at six or seven percent of the popular vote. i think his strategy now has to be to shore up his base which is very much a regional base that if they in the west the only chance he has in my opinion of reaching the second round is to dominate and win in the west and gain enough votes that way and then veer sharply to try to reach out to the east and south where his popularity is nil essentially you know. is this another frozen conflict you just like i can't see really. i mean i mean if you give in the

domestic politics in the rest of ukraine your compromises for both you can't compromise on leads issues very much hope is frozen conflict seems to me at the moment in the shelter better than the australian prospect. could bring a little bit of history back into this. crisis one thinks of the comparisons off between you know the crimean secession from your crying and the learn german. was actually the wrong historical analogy for correcting sturrock analogy is what happens six months later. when when hitler sponsored the breakup of the czech is it looks like you have a need to plan the slip and german troops march into into prague now you compare that with what russia's role in your current process did russia occupy you crying a lot of the country which could have done. you know what it is that she

tried to find a resolution that the conflict the civil war on the bison even of the separatists terrorists actually becoming part of ukraine again so it seems to me that's the best historical power. russia has acted to leave huge restraint in relation to the process so that gives me some hope for the future. what the. going to i'm concerned about the west and meddling in the conflict but i'm hopeful that russia is going to try and consign the control of the whole discussion in russia during all of this in juxtaposition in the west is that putin is doing too little i mean that's how far apart we are at looking at this they're going to follow up on this point. the chords are the consensus view of all the signatories including russia that the done by us must become part of ukraine again. the question arises why has that not yet

happened. i think one serious concern is that the ukrainian government is extremely reluctant to see forty five million voters enter the pl the political spectrum in ukraine that are essentially opposite in opposition to their view of ukraine and as long as they can keep that at bay. they can continue their current policies. so essentially that would be. i'm not assuming under any conditions that i can think of that russia would accept the donbass and to the russian federation that's something that i don't think it's going to do your current situation is not going to change if he domestic politics changes. for the better but that could be quite a long time in coming we have one minute i heard this phrase once from

a friend of mine ukraine is a nationalism without a nation how do you feel about that. there is a ukrainian nation but it is a pluralistic it is culturally plural nation and it doesn't want to recognize the current government does not want to recognize that culture plurality it is therefore defeating it's going against the grain of its own national history and identity. twenty seconds to church. one of the examples of this is the current effort to take the canonical of the status of the ukrainian orthodox church which is the only canonical church in ukraine and destroy it and create a new national church which will not be in communion with the rest of the orthodox world. an unprecedented even thing even the church can you know have to know that's all the time we have gentlemen many thanks to my guests here in moscow and thanks

to our viewers for watching us here at r.t.c. a next time and remember. this is. a church secret indeed priests accused of sexually abusing children can get away with it quite literally i like to call this the geographic solution so what the bishop needs to do then he finds out that the priest is is a perpetrator is simply moves him to a different spot were the previous standards not the highest ranks of the catholic church help conceal the accused priests from the police and justice so something

that you know that's not going to ask the i don't think that i think you'll hear that it just is out and. it's. it's faith. that. seemed wrong but i. just don't. get to shake out. just being become educated and in the game and equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. so you don't accept the story just as strong as the right to be a little bit it's. a

little challenging way to do it. and i don't bust i love me a lot of. one of them somebody doesn't know it's a mask you never know what's happening and whether they're shooting whether it's your. mistrust out of. love. but it. was. just thinking of that in you but i'm addicted to sit with your middle class and in the muslims well he's going to win the.

eat eat eat. eat. eat and sleep look. as washington head into could be open to talks with taliban militants in afghanistan are to track down a commander of the group who rejects the possibility of any negotiation. with the leadership of the taliban doesn't want to negotiate with the americans and has never wanted this and the leadership of the taliban never gave permission to any member to negotiate on their behalf. iran says it's launched missiles against militants in syria it believes were responsible for last month's deadly terror

attack on a military military parade in iran. last donald trump professes his love for north korean leader kim jong un or pyongyang remains coyer over america's hostile sanctions.