to see what the options are but certainly i think the illogical position as things stand at the moment for scotland for an independent scotland would be to be a member of efta and the european economic area so that gives you the benefit of being a in the european market with the don't side of being in the customs union a or in the agricultural policy or the fishing policy no with a nice easy solution to this it's no all one we all good and all bad but i think on balance that's a good way forward they wouldn't as the unionist parties would say would not cause problems on the scottish english border was so hard the government were working to the stop of our northern irish style backstop for scotland the only european negotiations were in the circumstances an independent scotland left the welcome before phnom separately but wouldn't be difficulties and trade between scotland england well i think you'd need to be a deal between scotland and england in terms over yuki single market but the s.n.p.

policy at the moment is if it happens in scotland becomes independent they laughed our policy in the moment is to go back into the european union i think that would present far more problems than being members of a fighter and the european economic area so it's a toss up between force the balances i mean when it came to the brakes of war like most people i wasn't a deal i'm no our borders johnson who's india logically one way and we don't hear a libya logical roommate or the other we i think it was a balance from was for can recent research has shown in scotland for example over sixty percent of the population in scotland describe themselves as you do skeptic that means at least a third of the people who describe themselves as you know skeptic remove what you do mean they have no idea logically attached to the european union but wouldn't it be still anomaly in europe just describe yourself an occasion as you go skeptic. in an f. death type style arrangement. like iceland norway switzerland and liechtenstein you

know free access to the european market of hundreds of millions of people but you might be find yourself with questions still to be resolved of the scotland england market well of course the differences mean obviously switzerland has got a completely different arrangement and there are variations in terms of for the deal can be i don't think you could be absolutely prescriptive until we see the u.k. deal ends up being but what i'm saying is that certainly at the moment it looks to me much more logical for an independent scotland to joint effort on the european economic a via rather than go back into the european union and i don't believe if we go back into the european union we would get away with north adopting the euro and i think the util would be a disaster for the scottish economy which comes with your effort orientated scotland how well my view is in scope becomes independent we should move towards the use separate scottish currency and the thing listening to the former greek

finance minister who's written on the stuff and who i think his experience is very useful for the scores we have he's basically seeing goof he would support scottish independence on one condition the know is that we have our own currency but of course iceland has a sort of norway has as one can say switzerland his own come say and lector well i think he uses the usual obsolescent rocking absolutely and the interesting thing about all of these countries is that the standard of living pay haid is far far higher in each and every one of those countries than as in scotland or indeed in the u.k. the timescale for independence i'm about to interview angus macneil who caused a big stir by saying by next march let's have a referendum a scottish in the palace you see the arjun say that this mcneil sees are you more cautious like the party with my view is that the quicker we get independence the better because if you look at the condition of the scottish economy in the.

challenges coming down the road with the artificial intelligence and all the rest of it and looking at the experience of the country just mentioned i use flint being a very good example of a small countries have the ability and the gelati to respond to global economic fight duels to their own benefit so the quicker we get independence the better i think realistically in terms of winning the independence referendum a new angus's will happen next march unfortunately a thing that's no probably going to happen apart from the deals that requires legislation that will take longer than the six months to get through this important point is that once we knew the deal between the u.k. he and the e.u. then i think they need to mop a very clearly a way forward as quickly as possible towards achieving independence we need independence is ultimately is possible so that can we can we can get scotland back up to the top wants of economic performance and realize the benefits of our own

resources for our own people and know any spate of a whether you're for or against blake said i think the one thing we're all agreed upon is that these are me another merry band of men and women in the tory party of shouldn't her not to run a country not only could we run our own country best of all name we can actually run england better than they have an interesting thought how it. some people are against a second referendum either in europe or on scotland some people are for both there are some people who want the second and the purpose referendum on europe but not in scotland let the liberals for example if you want another referendum in scotland but not while in europe how do you think we're sort of the conference is going to address these two or referenda once people of taken the decision to change in this case to vote for breaks it is very difficult in democratically to argue and away she said before that if i. i'm there once the deal was done there would be

a confirmatory referendum that more since they had everybody said that was the final decision and that was obese and pushed people voted therefore. i also think there are practical problems for example if we take ill nominee have to have a break so reform in a because you need six months for the legislation you then under the rules need six months for campaigning i don't think the country whether we're going to scotland or the u.k. be we really want another year of the mayhem we've seen with the with the two days of conducting this and the s.n.p. conference next week are they going to be champing at the bet for another go at the independents as you well i think have to be in the same piece champing at the bit for they only really for they know his alias possible but i think there's a debate in the party about just exactly when the timing is thank you very much alec neal not only neil was above have as one of the few leading us and people were titian's who voted for brett said but now he's taken more or less common cause with pro european m.p.i.

this meal and calling for in seizing the independents moment i caught up with firing a fairly speaking from and he's hebridean constituency. cost quite a start in the run up to conference by putting a very short timescale on the next independence referendum you were calling for that by next march what was the logic can choosing that date well it's predicated on the fact of the possibility of minute detail out of the universe scottish government hospital ready with some life jacket some life work some life raft over it to get into the second ship that is that you keep teasing me for the locks the iceboat get whatever else you can slam into and it it's always good practice to beat appeared to have at least some sort of emergency drill waiting in the waves that we have to do it with. and of course you can still do months or so for the twenty ninth of march if you didn't feel it because that gives things a little because she might. born to december twenty twenty now we saw at the labor

conference in liverpool last week a step towards a people's vote on europe do you think at the s.n.p. conference will be a step towards a second the dependance referendum believe it has to be noted or plain policy related policy changes you know early and according to personnel and probably changing every day to so there's nothing fixed over what is called a people's evidence you've got to get it immediately not this meal you chair of the international trade committee of the house of commons the select committee you know getting a bit frustrated after producing report after report warning of the dire consequences of a no deal blacks are a bad deal blacks and your colleagues seem to be ignoring all the good reports that indeed many frustrating because people are living and you know wishful foxy well look i mean if you just one example the g.d.p. gain from and deal with the united states of america and remember the ice and i guess quarter of the ones g.d.p. the g.d.p.

again is only eight point two percent but the best is six percent or the eight percent i mentioned area that's a thirtieth or authorities of the damage they're going to do that means that the u.k. has to find its self fifty cents us if the it was a quarter of all the ones g.d.p. we're going to be eight to twelve planets for the u.k. to make up its lost in g.d.p. with its nearest large city block which of course you need an experienced parliamentarian at westminster and ask but a statesman as the speaker of the house of commons likes to call you what should assessment of what's going to happen in the country what some blacks at the thought of the first would be going to see or for the option of least damage the other option is of course they're both very damaging and you want to get back to a situation where you're not be stuck with least damage but you reach out if it works is a better scenario notice been in the customs union out of the single market both occurred. incidentally live on gusts there are of course just retaining membership

of the to be in and i think the type of transition really teach them a certain for something between two and three hundred years for the u.k. to get a section on final agnus meal what's going to beat you to vice to your colleagues and parliament and the deed to the s.n.p. in general about how they should react to whatever be able to resume a comes back with from brussels. and then myself if the advice would be get yourself on a footing for independence and use the mandate that the scottish government house do to the you to fit into most twenty sixty nine remember david counted and start over the scottish election by insisting it halle's e.l.e.c. european referendum or that same campaign we didn't like it at the time devoted to this given us no if we could agree on monday at the time knowing what was coming down the line it was nothing absolutely but i might get seven count it might conflict might it and it should be used and i think the opportunity and the time is

coming then he says i guess brenda mcneil from the beautiful island of baba thank you very much. thank you. so calls to advance independence agenda from both sides of the european debate join us after the break as we make the comparison between scotland and catalonia the two restless nations in the u.p.a. and five and that. the u.s. don't accept the sort of stars right to live my life for the. child

she's likely to receive. i don't bust i love me it. was somebody you know how does know it's a mask you never know what's happening and what they're doing with their it's your . mistrust the tibetans are. sad but then there. was. also to give me of myself just because of that interview but i'm addicted to sit with your middle class and muslims all these to deal with. quite frankly i think old legitimacy isn't the be or have deteriorated and have

fragmented and it is extremely important that you have it in your digital seat of a presidency that has the votes of the libyan people people who have aspirations like freedom and they do have aspirations like living in dignity it quite frankly to deny them the right to vote with the pretext that oh it's not time yet or you don't have bread so you should not be asking for the vote this would vote for people who will provide the bread and how will you provide the new services. welcome back one of the fascinating contrasts between scotland and catalonia is that while scotland secured an independence process in twenty fourteen the people's demonstrations in catalonia a nation tonight event to self-determination where much much larger the catalonia national day regularly attacks more than one million people onto the streets of barcelona in scotland even in the run up to independence for twenty fourteen thirty

thousand was considered a large crowd however i things changing i asked martin hannan a journalist with a national newspaper who's been covering the all i'm to one battle marches up and down scotland well cried they were expecting an edge and go for the march and rally on saturday martin had an welcome to the alex savin show so tell me a bit about the march of the been happening up and then the country under the banner all under one banner way to beat and how many people have been attending them it's been going for a couple of years no sense yet that this phenomenon that's taken off what started in me and go article when round about somewhere between thirty five and sixty thousand people marched through the city and they took everybody by surprise including you organizers nor gave you always so many people with some note for that march and rally and it was an incredible success and it's carried on from there. the original idea was to go around the country so for them to have been said don't

be so but of a ten thousand people in that tiny town which actually is. able to snore in that effort and that's been quite surprised to have such a large number and that part of the country absolutely but a lot of people traveled there and. there was also local people involved and then it carried on to. two. other than yourself in spelling and by mass. sunday sixteen thousand people times i know we're looking forward to next out today and then but when there will be a march rally done that all my all. we lead quite spectacular the estimates of the moment anywhere between fifty and sixty thousand people what part do you think marches play an independence movement among the people that they are not alone in there. and their campaign for independence not to say important people are sitting on that given that that is a network doing the right across the country and is growing by the day and i do say

that if we tried something like that and twenty sapien shot would see that and i think that it would have been there from i think it would have been i guess thought and i'm very confident that these marches and wealth are falling in the at the moment well don't speculate to walls of the next bend the senate's referendum whenever that may be and the people will that i did see goal to campaign on to when independence of scotland which is long overdue martin hannett joining with the national newspaper thank you very much indeed for your insight. you're more than welcome korea i'm absolutely delighted to be joined from catalonia by ellis end up losing the president of the catalan national assembly elyssa joe welcome to the alex salmond sure it's lovely to see you again clearly feelings are still high in barcelona and of course across ca to lodhi and did this week in scotland there's going to be on another march an edge but you may have heard of i'm keen to pick an understanding from you of what you think the importance of marches are to

a independence movement whatever that might be in catalonia or indeed in scotland. was very important in choosing what we didn't want to. show was that turkey is a man's our home. rather than on our there are. people who have that. have. jettisoned they are willing to demonstrate they are willing to organize things they are willing to organize. for most he had. the opportunity thinking they are. going to have three seasons well i think it's lovely to see you thank you so much for your time wishing you all the very best indeed ellice end up losing the present at the castle and national assembly thank you very much i have no desire under my medical bank you very much needed to discuss in detail the contrast between scottish and catalonian politics and their campaigns for independence alex is joined by former presiding officer of the scottish parliament

to share marek and catalonia government representative to the u.k. sergey marson. trisha welcome to the alex alban show thanks thank you said it is almost a year to the day since the referendum the unofficial referendum of catalonia how things moved on since that is a difficult moment because we have people in prison as you know we have a member of the parliament that in the modern tribes with sedition and these are really really strong or charge because thirty years of freedom for all of them is a difficult situation for the politicians and the society in this morning to tell me. as a former presiding officer of the scottish parliament you've been an observer of the catalonian situation that effort end of the elections are not a frequent visitor to catalonia what's your assessment of the situation assumed spend a lot of the time and catalonia over the last year i think things are difficult i think it's difficult for the political parties to keep the momentum going and i

think it's difficult for the civic society who want the process to be even quicker and. i think there's a bit of pragmatism another of a mind to some class moment. leading cattleya an independent to start with the could be a potential role for us independent politician or i'm not coming back. or not come back after not the importance i do think is interesting because a card me for cattail who was the president of the catalan parliament is in jail this moment without trial on charges that she allowed to be the police in the parliament so that's a dramatic thing i'm in a special of a salute to a former presiding officer or perhaps if we go back in history for former speakers of the house of commons as the reason they get dragged to the chair is that the

ended up in the in the tower of for do the wrong thing but you know this is the twenty first century you will expect a presiding officer or a speaker to be jailed for allowing the parliamentarians to phenomena that has been a tradition going back thirty forty maybe move years of the catalonian people coming in and she is a very very strong civic organizations as well as a political organization what do you attribute to the rising numbers now demonstrating in scope i think there's a desire for the process of in the pained to be me forward by many people i think we see that as a we play on everybody involved to see there is a case for this we want to we need to move quickly and the ultimate decision is going to be you know when up or say this is going to be just after break is it

going to be afterwards because of course there is also a political monday treasure and surgery for. thank you so much and thank you. in contrast to the other major parties the s. and p. is largely united on europe the arctic dance breaks it and believe that the tory and labor plans for dealing with the european union are doomed to failure the debate in the s.n.p. is rather concentrated on how quickly to push forward on another independence referendum the activist base is champing at the bit but the leadership is more cautious fitting that a second defeat could finish the cause for the forseeable future from two ends of the european debate alex and i'm just mcneil now unite to press for urgency in addressing the independents test they are moved by the thought that the westminster establishment has never been weaker while the european future for scotland whether it be in the european union or s stuff would never be easier to negotiate one thing

is for certain when all under one banner rally takes place a saturday an edge of drama and the crowd are asked in the time honored fashion what do they want the answer will be independence on the on strong time scale will be not. thank you for watching i'm from alex myself and all of the show we're seeing. you see a good bye. and it is a new school this isn't the only. church secret indeed just like priests accused of sexually abusing children can get away with it quite literally i like to call this

to do a graphic solution so what the bishop needs to do then he finds out that the priest is is a perpetrator is simply moves him to a different spot were the previous standards not the highest ranks of the catholic church help conceal the accused priests from the police and justice so something that is as old as the eye and then i conclude that it used this out and. it's faith. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy confrontation let it be an arms race in this on off and spearing dramatic development the only place really i'm going to resist i don't see that strategy will be successful very critical time time to sit down and talk.

cooked additional subversive so i'm not of what was an answer to the callender some at least it's just a good usual conditional. simply . yes so when i'm with you to. look at with a showing of the. last two and a chit. he think it should be. your fish so to. both of shipping. most of those who booked it the work of the person you will have still to say no i do know what the full. cost was the latest news in the posts. boise in the show yet of putting this list of those to move. through some really strong.

so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy phone foundation let it be an arms race in this on off and spearing dramatic development only personally i'm going to resist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical time time to sit down and talk. when a loved one is murder it's natural to seek the death penalty for the murder i would prefer it be known in the death penalty just because i think that's the fair thing the right thing research shows that for every nine executions one convict just

found innocent the idea that we were executing innocent people is terrifying those just newly the arrogant and that we're even many victims' families want the death penalty to be abolished the reason we have to keep the death penalty here is because that's what murder victims' families what that's going to give them peace that's going to give them justice. and we come in saying. not quite you know we've been through this this isn't the way. baseless politicized claims hypocritical bodies and institutions unjust prosecution damages the cause of human rights the latest in a series of us withdrawals from international justice commitments it seems washington take measures to protect itself from being sued if the un's call. a u.n. agency for palestinian refugees has hit hard times often the u.s.

cuts its funding for the organization we discussed the impact this has had with the head of the un body in gaza. most work would be made easier if there are stable predictable funding arrangements so all the countries that helped us this year need to continue this next year. and the bronze butchers have written to the president amid a spate of attacks on school.