and we're delighted to be joined by alex neil member of the scottish parliament for air jean shorts he voted for bricks in the twenty six thousand referendum on the u.k.'s membership of the i mean you still think the spade voted for bracks the european issue in this broadest sense is a big opportunity to push forward the independents because absolutely we saw in the last referendum in independence how the european union in particular the present but also actually used the power in the influence of the european union and to do during the who exactly the who gives for a scottish independence if you have brakes you do it how flood of seen in catalonia as well just what the real attitude is of the e.u. leadership towards any country within a steed wanting independence i mean the we in which they backed up the spanish government for its illegally devotee i think is not to do doormen for the e.u. been particularly prue independence or even staying neutral so your policy would be pro after the european three trade association will go to see the final deal to see

what the options are but certainly i think the illogical position as things stand at the moment for scotland for an independent scotland would be to be a member of efta a and the european economic area so that gives you the benefit of being in the european market with the don't side of being in the customs union a or in the agricultural policy or the fishing policy no with a nice easy solution to this is still all one we all good and all bad but i think on balance that's a good way forward but wouldn't as the unionist parties would say would not cause problems on the scottish english border was so hard that the government were working to the stop of a normal irish backstop for scotland then the european negotiations would in the circumstances an independent scotland after welcome before phnom separately there wouldn't be difficulties and trade between scotland well i think the need to be a deal between. scotland and england in terms over uki single market but the s.n.p.

policy at the moment is if it happens and scotland becomes independent thereafter our policy at the moment is to go back into the european union i think that would present far more problems than being members of a far and the european economic area so it's a toss up between force the balances i mean when it came to the brakes of words like most people i wasn't a deal no our borders johnson who's a deal logically one way and we don't hear a libya logical remainder the other we i think it was a balance from was for can recent research has shown in scotland for example over sixty percent of the population in scotland describe themselves as you do skeptic that means at least a third of the people who describe themselves as you know skeptic remove what you mean they have no idea logically attached to the european union but wouldn't it be still anomaly in europe describe yourself and occasionally of a skeptic. in an f.

the type style arrangement like iceland norway switzerland and let them stay you know free access to the european market of hundreds of millions of people but you might be find yourself with questions still to be resolved of the scotland england market well of course the differences mean obviously switzerland has got a completely different arrangement and there are variations in terms of for the deal can be i don't think you could be absolutely prescriptive until we see the u.k. deal in being but what i'm seeing is that certainly at the moment it looks to me much more logical for an independent scotland to joint effort on the european economic a via rather than go back into the european union and i don't believe if we go back into the european union we would get away with north adopting the euro and i think the util would be a disaster for the scottish economy which comes with your effort orientated scotland how well my view is the. scott becomes independent we should move towards

the use separate scottish currency and the thing listening to the former greek finance minister who's written on the stuff and who i think his experience is very useful for the scores we have he's basically seeing you goof he would support scottish independence on one condition the know is that we have our own currency but of course iceland has its own norway has its own currency switzerland or incumbency and lector well i think it uses the youth who are absolutely and the interesting thing about all of these countries is that the standard of living pay a haid is far far higher in each and every one of those countries than as in scotland or indeed in the u.k. . timescale for independence i'm about to interview angus macneil who caused a big stir by saying by next march let's have a referendum a scottish in the practice you see the arjun say that this mcneil sees are you more cautious like the party with my view is that the quicker we get independence the

better because if you look at the condition of the scottish economy and the challenges coming down the road with the artificial intelligence and all the rest of it and looking at the experience of the country just mentioned i use flint being a very good example of we are small countries have the ability and the gelati to respond to global economic cycles to their own benefit so the quicker we get independence the better i think realistically in thames of winning the independence referendum nor angus's will happen next march i unfortunately think that's not probably going to happen apart from the gales that requires legislation that will take it longer than the six months to get through this important point is that once we knew the deal between the u.k. the and the e.u. then i think they need to market very clearly a way forward as quickly as possible towards achieving independence we need independence is certainly is possible so that can we can we can get scotland back up to the. wants of economic performance and realize the benefits of our own

resources for our own people and no only than any spate of wolf whether you're for or against blake said i think the one thing we're all agreed upon is that these are me and not merely band of men and women in the party of should her not to run a country not only could we run our own country better the name we can actually run england better than they have an interesting thought our culture lastly some people are against a second referendum either in europe or on scotland some people are for both there are some people who want the second and the purpose referendum on europe but not in scotland like the liberals for example if you want another referendum in scotland but not while in europe how do you think we're sort of the conference is going to address these two or referenda once people of teak in the decision to change in this case to vote for breaks it is very difficult in democratically to argue and

lay she said before the day for in them that once the deal was done there would be a confirmatory referendum not more since they had everybody say that was the final decision and that was the bases and which people voted therefore i also think there are practical problems for example a way to kill not to have a break so referendum because you need six months for the legislation you then under the rules need six months for campaigning i don't think the country whether we're talking about scotland till the uki we really want to know the year of the mayhem we've seen with the with the two days of conduct with us and the s.n.p. conference next week are they going to be champing at the bet for another go in the pan this issue well i think you have to be in the same piece chomping at the bit for a daily referendum is alias possible but i think there's a debate in the party about just exactly when the timing is thank you very much elliot meal the only meal worth of hair was one of the few leading us m.p. forward titian's who voted for brett. but now he's taken more or less common cause

with pro european m.p.i. in this meal and calling for in seizing the independence moment i caught up with buying a sailor speaking from and he's had to be inconsistency. cost quite a start in the run up to conference by putting a very short timescale on the next independence referendum you were calling for it by next march what was the logic can choosing that date well it's predicated on the fact of the possibility of minute detail and safely out of the scottish government hospital ready with some life jackets on life with some life after all that if you get it on the second ship that is the u.k. season me he said for the oaks the ice that it would have an ocean slamming too and it it's always good practice to keep appeared and have at least some sort of emergency drill waiting in the waves so that we have to do it with and of course yes no no do let's assume from the twenty ninth of march if you get to feel it

because it gets things a little because she might lead born to december twenty twenty now we saw at the labor conference in liverpool last week a step towards a people's vote on europe do you think at the s.n.p. conference will be a step towards a second the dependence referendum believe it has to be noted or plain policy related to that policy change you know early and according to personnel and probably change in eighty two so there's nothing fixed what is called a people's evidence of gods you need not just meal you chair of the international trade committee of the house of commons the select committee you know getting a bit frustrated after producing report after report warning of the dire consequences of a no deal blacks are a bad deal blacks and your colleagues seem to be ignoring all your reports it is indeed very frustrating because people are livid and you know wishful filed to see what looks mean if you just take one example the. g.d.p.

gain from and deal with the united states of america remember the isis america quarter or the ones g.d.p. the g.d.p. again it is only point two percent but a better system six percent or the eight percent i mentioned area that's a thirtieth or authorities of the damage they're going to do that means that the u.k. has to find its itself fifty cents us if the it's a quarter to one of the ones g.d.p. we're going to need eight to twelve planets for the u.k. to make up its lost in g.d.p. with its nearest large city block which of course he needs and i guess you're an experienced parliamentarian at westminster i'm asked but it states one as the speaker of the house of commons likes to call you what should assessment of what's going to happen and the crunch what some blacks at the start of the first we're going to see or for the option of least damage the other option is of course that both very damaging and you want to get back to a situation where you're not be stuck with the least damage but you reach out if and what is a better scenario notice been in the customs union out of the single market both

occurred sedan to live out. there are of course just retaining membership of the to be union and i think the type of position deal that tees a major in for something between two and three hundred years for the u.k. to get its house in on final agnes meal what's going to be you would have vice two your colleagues in parliament and the deed to the s.n.p. in general about how they should react to whatever be able to resume a comes back with from brussels. and then myself if the advice has to be get yourself on a footing for independence and use the mandate that the scottish government house do to the you to fit into my twenty sixty nine remember david cameron and start over the scottish election by insisting he held these. european referendum over that same count didn't get it we didn't like it at the time devoted to this given is no if we get a clear mandate at the time and on what was coming down the line there's nothing

absolutely but i might get seven counting concrete mounted and it should be used and i think the opportunity and the time is coming then he says i guess brenda mcneil from the beautiful island of baba thank you very much. thank you. so calls to advance independence agenda from both sides of the european debate join us after the break as we make the comparison between scotland and catalonia the two restless nations in the u.d.p. and for a moment. the way to the united states is dangerous for most of the illegal immigrants. but first there was a simple i want to become lost and i won the last post on this topic but many of them look for refuge in the so called sentry sides of the draft used to share information about undocumented migrants with federal authorities the best person to

ask than. most needed more don't have it up on i guess i'm in a lot of class and what data. they have what are the options to stay in the country with donald trump in the white house all. the. troubles of many couples. deal with the push to put impulse response both. of you out to the popular hope of the. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy confrontation let it be an arms race often spearing dramatic development only really i'm going to resist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical time to sit down and talk.

church secret indeed just like priests accused of sexually abusing children. gets away with it later literally i like to call this the geographic solution so what the bishop needs to do then he finds out that the priest is is a perpetrator is simply moves him to a different spot where the previous standard is not normal highest ranks of the catholic church conceal the accused priests from the police and justice system to that end as old as the eye and then the law i think you'll hear about it used to seattle do you know. welcome back one of the fascinating contrasts between scotland and catalonia is

that while scotland secured an independence process in twenty fourteen the people's demonstrations in catalonia a nation tonight event to self-determination where much much larger the catalonia national day regularly attacks more than one million people onto the streets of barcelona in scotland even in the run up to independence for twenty fourteen thirty thousand was considered a large crowd however i things changing now i asked martin hammond a journalist with a national newspaper who's been covering the all i'm to one battle marches up and down scotland well cried they were expecting an edge a brawl for the march and rally on saturday martin had an welcome to the alex salmon show so tell me a bit about the march of the been happening up and then the country under the banner all under one banner where if they beat it how many people have been attending them it's been going for a couple of years no sense yet that this phenomenon that's taken off what started in me and go article when in rome to go somewhere between thirty five and sixty

thousand people marched through the city and they took everybody by surprise including you organizers nor gave you eyes so many people with some note for that march and rally it was an incredible success and it's carried on from there you know. a general idea was to go around the country so for them to have been to east of of ten thousand people in that tiny town which actually is both is it. able to snore in that effort and that's been quite surprised to have such a large number and that part of the country absolutely but a lot of people traveled there and. there was a lot of local people involved and then it carried on to. two. other than yourself in spelling and fun last. sunday sixteen thousand people times i know we're looking forward to next out today and then but when there will be a march rally done that all my all. we need quite spectacular the estimates of the

moment anywhere between fifty and sixty thousand people what part do you think marches play an independence movement among the people that they are not alone in there. and their campaign for independence not to say important people are sitting on that given that that is a network doing right across the country and is growing by the day and idea say that if we try something like that and twenty sapien shall we say then i think that it would have been there from i think it would have been i guess thought and i'm very confident that these marches and well to falling in the moment though especially towards the next then the senate's referendum whenever that may be and the people will that i did see goal to campaign on to when independence of scotland which is long overdue martin hannett joining with the national newspaper thank you very much indeed for your insight. you're more than welcome korea i'm absolutely delighted to be joined from catalonia by ellis end up losing the president of the

catalan national assembly elyssa joe welcome to the alex salmond sure it's lovely to see you again clearly feelings are still high in barcelona and of course across ca to lodhi and did this week in scotland there's going to be a another march anetta but you may have heard of i'm keen to pick an understanding from you of what you think the importance of marches are to our independence movement whatever it might be in catalonia or indeed in scotland. was very important in choosing what we didn't want to. show was that turkey is a man's our home how rather than on their own that's how people have about. how the gestures are they are willing to demonstrate they are willing to our best things they are willing to organize. for most he had. the opportunity thinking they are. going to have three seasons well i think it's lovely to see you thank you so much for your time wishing you all the very best

indeed ellis end up losing the president the cattle and national assembly thank you very much i have no desire under my medical bank you very much needed to discuss in detail the contrast between scottish and catalonian politics and their campaigns for independence alex is joined by former presiding officer of the scottish parliament to share marek and catalonia government representative to the u.k. sergey marson. to show welcome to the likes of and shillings thank you said it is almost a year to the day since the referendum the unofficial referendum in catalonia how things moved on since that is a difficult moment because we have people in prison as you know we have a member of the parliament that in the modern tribes with sedition that is of really really strong are charged because thirty years of freedom for all of them is a difficult situation for the politicians and the society this morning to tell me. as a former presiding officer of the scottish parliament you've been in the observer of

the catalonian situation that effort and of the elections are not a frequent visitor to catalonia what is your assessment of the situation assumed spend a lot of the time and catalonia over the last year i think things are difficult i think is difficult for the political parties to keep the momentum going and i think it's difficult for the civic society who want the process to be even quicker and. i think there's a bit of pragmatism another of mine to some that a class moment. leading cattleya. an independent to start with the could be a potential role for us independent politician or i'm not coming back i'm not come back after not the importance i do think is interesting because carly for cattail who was the president of the catalan parliament is in jail

this moment without trial on charges that she allowed to be the police in the parliament so that's a dramatic thing i mean especially a little a former presiding officer or perhaps a bit go back in history for former speakers of the house of commons as the reason they get dragged to the chair is that the ended up in the in the tower of for do the wrong thing but you know this is the twenty first century you wouldn't expect a presiding officer of a speaker to be jailed for allowing the parliamentarians to debate what they wanted to debate the gesture of a president or the presiding officer rather indeed a speaker is to make sure the happened in the parliament that is what the of the of to do to make sure that all of the voices ahead of you were of the presiding officer when i was the first minister and that the gleeman was made between scotland and london to have a process by which of independence referendum could be legally held do you see any

prospect of an edinburgh agreement coming to pass and in catalonia i think we've got to this there will be that there is going to come a day it's pressure externally on spain chill it to happen is the spanish government will have stopped such an agreement because the queen is against the. constitution even to discuss the matter of cattle on in detainees or indeed any other in the. and so i think the place has got to be on speed to concede because you can see. every week but particularly this same with the other national dhea a few weeks ago with the events that owning one of their city all of. the first of october last year. it detailed nation of the people of catalonia the voice is going to be halved so absolutely new socialist government in madrid been they've started at least

a dialogue with catalonia leadership do you have any hope that that dialogue is good to lead to a substantial change we are really young democracy and we are coming from forty years of dictatorship franco and some of the infrastructures of these dictatorships come to the market. we haven't changed. some of these powers so i think that spain is a great country. and i think that need some help to understand what democracy is you must be disappointed that if you are looking for outside intervention to help the madrid government come to towns of self-determination and ballot box determination the response of europe to catalonia was pretty poor one of two voices supportive but basically the institutions of europe hostile to catalonia an ambitious well it's true that from. power we don't we didn't have in supports

but it is important to remark from justice for the rest of justice for europe we have received some mr jesus saying that there are things that are doing or growing in a spin we're talking here about the politicians who were in exile in the case of course of the former president to germany in college but saturday in scotland and others the various jurisdictions. the seem to want to hand them back to spain the thing is that the movement is really peaceful and if your peaceful is impossible did you have an avatar for reveal your one one final question to you i'm assuming about demonstrations because a lot is that we were going through the independence process scope and i think the biggest demonstration was about forty thousand people there but no that's big in scottish terms because the only of the you can tama a movie of people into the streets of bustle over the drop of

a heart and no interestingly enough it seems that demonstrations perhaps the one this coming saturday in scotland getting bigger when we don't have it in the perms process do you have or around sort of the phenomena that has been a tradition of thirty four to maybe more years of the cuttle in people coming in the street is very very strong civic organizations as well as the political organizations what do you attribute to the rising numbers now demonstrating in scope i think there's a desire for the process of in the pained to be me forward by many people i think we see that as a we place on everybody involved to see that as a case for this we want to we need to move quicker and the ultimate decision is going to be you know when up or say this is going to be just after breaks is it

going to be afterwards because of course there's also political monday pressure and surgery thank you so much and thank you. in contrast to the other major parties the s.n.p. is largely united on europe the arctic dance breaks it and believe that the tory and labor plans for dealing with the european union are doomed to failure the debate to the s.n.p. is rather concentrated on how quickly to push forward on an. other independence referendum the activist base is chomping at the bit but the leadership is more cautious fritted mehta second defeat could finish the cause for the forseeable future from two ends of the european debate alex and i'm just mcneil now unite to press for urgency in addressing the independents test they are moved by the thought that the westminster establishment has never been weaker while the european future for scotland whether it be in the european union or s tough would never be easier

to negotiate one thing is for certain when the all under one banner rally takes place a saturday an edge of drama and the crowd are asked in the time honored fashion what do they want the answer will be independence on the on strong time scale will be not. thank you for watching i'm from alex myself and all of the show the phoenix . people. cooked additional some so i know what was it gets up there to look at some of these it's just a butcher looking it's nice to not. lose the audience. simply

yet so when i'm at regional shall proceed. to look at with a showing at the plant which up a skeleton is lost when i try it. you think it will show. your view of the state so to. both of shipping. yet when you lost it does the book hit the wall with the post in your book that still missing you know i don't know what the all good. books was the latest news in the puss. stuff no boys and all right so yeah i've put it this was one of those. little fish through the summer in the store oh yeah. it doesn't. quite frankly i think only just in the season to be i have deteriorated and have

fragmented and it is extremely important that we have a new digital scene of a presidency that has the votes of the libyan people people who have aspirations like freedom and they do have aspirations like living in dignity and quite frankly to deny them the right to vote. the pretext that. you don't have bread so you should be asking for the. people who will provide the bread and who will provide the services.

i. have. been carrying out. to get an orchestrated propaganda campaign rundown on thursdays war of words. in other news america holds its breath away to. the supreme court nominee accused of sexual misconduct we look at it unexpected effects. of it in escalating trade war the us vice president claims the chinese tyrus a design to influence america's upcoming.