about how the western containment policy against the soviet union has now been replaced by russia's efforts to contain nato and i wonder if in the case of russia it's really containment as much as let's say the effort to simply keep nato away good first of all it's interesting from the historical point of view to see how old the this were the containment was exploited to the right after the second world war by the united states to you do need to to contain the potential expansion of the soviet union towards the eastern side of europe and at that moment containment became more or less one of the pillars of the foreign policy of the united states in nato was one of the tool of the containment not the only one but in europe need to was for sure the most important tool to try to contain the soviet union into a thing russia is doing the same to nato now because as you pointed out i think the

russian policy is much less multilayered than what you describe think that in in one sense of russia was waiting to see how far need to go how much need to cool me insurance in the former soviet republics because we had to the explosion of soviet union and many new independent counties but there remain may you piñon what the differential called to do man the result of the which means a privileged area of interaction between the former soviet republic we may understand that for instance in some of the counties such as in the states there will not always a huge drew friendship between some part of those population and there are also natural economic ties that sustain not only russia but i understand many in the baltics the correct and not only economic does but also a common often way of things. a common way of having more to our relations it is

a because of the history and even though the ballot ecstacy so they can of course concede that in the past there were other troubles they were independent between the two world wars and then the world including the soviet union at the beginning of the second world war. but with other former soviet republic such as crane georgia well may need a crane or crane or russia they have a common history they have come i would say cultural and religious but let's discuss does in detail but let me press here once more do you think russia current policy reserve in nato could really be described as containment i do consider that what i've been in in the very recent months sure is that russia on one side the east turning to were easier in order to create

a stronger each and block and even though you can ask the west yes and death would be a first step to stop a large amount of the western counters to work toward russian federation secondly the new generation of weapons the seer the president of russia for duration doing the speech and beginning of march he showed a new new weapons and that means a dem or a nato is acting in order to establish new military bases in sentence to europe or to morrow the you know the cities are looking forward the new system of listing misses and so on the more this has no saying let's look at it as far as i understand from the russian point of view there is a big difference between containment as an effort to contain to limit the spread of nato not only in the russian neighborhood but around the world and pure defense and trying to keep nader a big russia see the main different. but then there's to actions but from what

you're saying it looks like you believe rush is actually trying to deal with a low ball of concrete wayward to scorn tain meant containment is now creamy and don't bust on one side so to say it's unmarked at that because on the other side this is a very concrete step in action in order to stop to warn on the others or to do to step forward. this is a very concrete and those are military action and political action of course now we were discussing a lot about of the further potential step of nato in europe we should be the one of the former yugoslav republic of macedonia the last year montenegro joined in we had big troubles in montenegro huge discussion even the news of concerning the middle you can always the potential attempt to the life for me to do can only because he was in favor to join nato what does it mean today to join nato to join it to means for some countries this is an insurance policy but on the other side in the be part

of nato means to have some benefits when you can only benefits financial benefits also the fact that the county can rent some bases to the states that would pay for this the western policy during the cold war was based on the notion of ideological and competitive military with the soviet union there was a strong ideological factor there do you think russia ideologically also sees itself at odds with the west no i think that there is a different approach to life that is different culture. what is russia nowadays is russia. a democracy as we consider any other western european country probably not to in russia that is a special democracy the school like this very often my opinion is that. do the

western european counties and nato counters they tended to emphasize the danger to rational represents in order to create the in enemy that would produce the five new further actions toward death that kind of mean if somebody knows or russia. are we sure that of russia would like to invade the stone your lot it would be to india i personally don't think so are we sure that russia wanted to include to careen me if there was not a coupe in craning two thousand and fourteen that was allowed even by european counters and the european union this is the problem the problem is that sometimes we also have interference from the. western counties in the internal affairs of the former soviet republics and this is because this strategy of nato

and of the western counties is to grow to include more counters in their group in order to have a more broadly economic economic profit and benefits you mentioned there the crisis in ukraine i think we both will agree that it was precipitated by this very tenuous relationship between russia on one hand and nato on the air on another hand. both sides still blame one another for what happened but do you think internally at least has there been any of revaluation of what happened in ukraine why it happened and what are the potential cause this is what we try. to who try to discuss because in your opinion what is very interesting is what provoked the cries of pain mainly there was a movement in a crane there was a movement in the beginning of the new millennium it was the orange revolution a movement the. leading the count to two words of the west. but then there

was a one year who called bush was elected the game of. was that there was a new position of the majority of the koreans but then i saw news that the european union. had a wrong behavior the rupee needs an international going to zeeshan this should be a neutral international organisation while it is hard to be neutral when you. fear your neighbor but. one interesting thing you said was the. european union was on the path for many years the european union wasn't the path of an lodgment but just last march the european commission issued a white paper in which it described five possible scenarios for its future and none of them mentioned either the integration or ukraine or the e.u. enlargement in general do you think that has crystallized over the last four years

or do you think even before they might down in bounds that was more or less understood then the european officials who are very active during the might on process protest in encouraging that probably european sentiment was it were essentially misleading the ukrainians and the onus but they don't have evidence of this will be learned is to the on the diplomatic papers when who would have access to these i think that the. strongest senior g. very often between the european union and nato. need to we have. to see the role of the prominent role of the united states of america and the united states they have the capacity to to make pressure on the other members of nato in order to go in in that direction and when they talk about dupion union i talk about to the. do kind of

a propaganda that european union deed in new crane through the high representative for reforming policy which was lady catherine ashton when she went to my then square with the european flag to promote a dupion union but that was an email you opinion a wrong behavior because european union should say to any county that members we do not close the door so that if the counter is respect to the parade it was this but we will not make insurance in the internal affairs of the county in order to promote european union and to seduce the counter towards the rupee has specially when the hero has no intentional following up on that and actually accepting the country into the european union ukraine is now facing presidential elections and the political tensions in that country are pretty strong there are five declared candidates more than a dozen of possible candidates the incumbent president has

a somewhat low rating if there is a political crisis another political crisis in ukraine say without in two thousand and nineteen do you think the european union would be just as eager to interfere in and take sides. his you know to these that is it big competition in the field of communications how do you communicate how do you make interference you have a lot of chances to do that i think the dupion union shoot a bit slow down its. presence in this framework and should leave the county to decide so democracy also means that the county should be free to take the best possible solution but it didn't turn a lever there shouldn't be a lot of interference from outside but very often we do have the you know where all the ukrainian politicians for example would. want the european union to interfere

actively. you know a essentially endorse their political candidate saying let's one. doesn't mean to be part of the pm union it means a for many county means or disses a good opportunity it means a good living standard thinking examine the pieces it will do for to need you to become a b. to each other because we will get some money from european union so it's a good opportunity but what does it mean from the moral point of view that means to shield the european values and not they sure that in all the little p. and member state there is the same european speed the same european co-leader ukrainians definitely claim that they have that european spirit in fact they believe that they are at the forefront of the founding the european a member of the sentence of a victorian call of nature some years ago when he said that we are a european country but we have a spatial relations with russia but when he said we are european country means the

worries you create ease in europe if we can see that you will goes from the atlantic ocean to the mon things you create easily loys russia so part of russia is there but can we include two powerful russians of opinion or does russia wish to be part of dupion union we are skeptical in front of this of this option the problem is that when we seduce a new member of the opinion we should also think about to the consequence of this in the bailout the release of that countered with diprivan use friends and partners such as russia and ukraine well too late for that i guess professor thought i have to take a short break now but we will be back in just a few moments stay tuned. i've

been saying the numbers mean something they matter to us is over one trillion dollars and. more than ten white collar crime stamped this. eighty five percent of global wealth you want to be rich eight point six percent market saw thirty percent mismanaged your home with four hundred to five hundred three per second per second and bitcoin rose to twenty thousand dollars. china is building a two point one billion dollar a i industrial plant but don't let the numbers overwhelm. the only number you need to remember is one one business showed you know forward to miss the one and only boom boom. that's kaiser sign it looks like they say money the delegates to. clinch it is it this is the central

plank support dying at the moment kind of problem right now so you stop the. welcome back to all the parties to fund a a lot the professor at tree yes university in italy professor bill out of speaking more broadly about transatlantic errors i think nothing tests friendship friendships more effectively than bickering about money and president transoms to be very unequivocal about europe having to pay more to then that and they don't budge and do you think he's going to get what he wants from europe i'm not sure because of the economic crisis and take the example of my county italy italy spends less than two percent of the g.d.p. for the fans. president who was asking that very clearly and

it's absolutely understandable because the. goodies should be the principle of bargain sharing and of course we do not have the same financial capability than other states are the most important kountry is the most important g.d.p. of the world but there is a percentage so in generally think you should at least i think two percent of your g.d.p. is the sense now we are facing a huge crisis in italy they're discussing in these days the new financial. moreover the new forces that are in the government they problem is the the to deliver some resources to the poor people that we call the idea to ditch it at the nuns and they are now trying to find the resources in order to maintain what they declare during the campaign because this is accordance course but. much of mattick is mathematic

and very often figures are figures and it's not easy to find these compared to the available resources now speaking about mathematics i learned recently to my own surprise that. italy's real per capita g.d.p. is now lord and the euro while the euro zone experiment began in two thousand in one thousand nine hundred eight even greece has actually registered some growth but italy hasn't while this supposedly populous politician say that your hasn't delivered for italy don't they actually have a point this way and they want the last elections yes they have a point the people the general the people they feel to be who are concerning the chase power and but the problem is that in the last years we were affected by

a huge world economic financial crisis and we had also to to put that in that would combine reason we did the european crisis that we had asked of two thousand and five when the european constitution was rejected then we had the huge prizes india little zone no we do not really we do not really have a lot of resources. to the to deliver to the defense of the to the military is as we may say and very often they tally and sadoon in the period of the cold war they were thinking that there is no need to invest a lot of money in defense because in any case we would be protected by the united states and by nato but this is exactly what the americans now do reject and say you cannot continue to survive like this and they have a point or now sometimes the the current italian government is actually compare it to the trumpet ministration in terms of at least f one point three and i heard some

european politicians are european. to express the same sentiment that you know we should just wait down out as we hope to wait outrank do you think that is a sustainable approach do you think that kind of those kind of political forces. temporary and a more permanent be honest i'm not a politician and i don't do soup or to this government or in order to go in there just a new story and story just as a straight to theater to see things from an objective point of view even do word the popular in the sometimes is a wrong word in my opinion we have a new political movements in europe we have to respect from the point of view is no to correct to just to define does movement as a pop would is that which means balkan is very often means extremist to know because of this movement to the they have success also because they represent the will of the population to brutus in front of some through problems that we have we

we have next year elections in the european free more we will see which will be the result of this so called the populist movement in dupion parliament and then we will we will come see that as an indicator of the problems that the europeans have nowadays as you mentioned some real problems. and i think the two main factors that may have influenced the telly in their electorate are immigration and the economy and on both of which decision making was mostly done. in other european capitals rather than rome much of that was done in brussels some of that was done in berlin do you think the the change within the taliban politics is germanic enough to encourage some change in the decision making on the european level with regards to both immigration and the management of quantum in this is partly true the problem for room is to obtain to get

a spec to buy the olders the problem of immigration was in the interesting indicator because the room was left to the very often alone or to manage a disposal and instead of having the necessary support of from the order european partners so when i was mentioning before which is the european speedy european speed to me is also a coma. in europe if we have to get there if we decided to be together then we should ensure dissolute that india there should be the same principle of burden sharing that to mention the in nato context so but then surely means that if we have a problem of him eagerly surely in society he lumpy do you sell a neat alley or in greece or even denmark even the street and even the filo maybe even poland even poland they should cooperate to not just say this is no there were program because this is very far from our borders it depends on those. of the skills of the politicians you know now we have

a new generation of politicians not everybody is convinced about the fact that they are very well prepared to face the challenge maybe yes maybe no we will see can i ask you specifically on our on it elise prospect of exiting the e.u. because later this month the european commission may take an unprecedented decision of rejecting italy's national budget. if the government does not improve its deficit figures and it's an interesting conundrum i think for the european commission because on the one hand and doesn't want to the you know about example for others but on the other hand if it defies the talim government it may actually increase the prospect of down taking that step and leading the country out of the euro zone. what do you think would be a last damaging both for the e.u. and for him telling a very good question first first point it out not from you but from the and exactly

. ok that doesn't mean that the country would leave the european union even though that mechanism of separating that to has not been determined in any case i think that it's up almost impossible do you believe would be the oval sword what is possible is to have. a new conflict between the do a peon union and the italian government on the decision of the government with concerning the financial forecast and in the financial budget. the new government must tain the promises that the have we devoted to us. they know they are extremely squeezed between. do need to respect of the european part of meters and didn't need to to prove that the situation of the county and population as a whole would doesn't mean to improve the situation of the italian police really

often means to create a new opportunities for citizen leaving also when he says in which requires mining activity for us that. yes i think that it will be a commission meet may make a pressure on rome on this they are doing debt. what is not acceptable from the principal point of view is that the european union should see what the government should do or not do well there is another european country that is facing not the same but how it's similar about principles i'm talking about poland or which is. in a pretty frayed relationship with european commission and the european union as a whole how far. do you think both war i was willing to take that dispute over principles whether the head this is a this is part of the mocha c i mean some things we have different opinions or we must respect each other what is that dangerous is to say now you are not allowed to

be part of the opinion of anymore if you don't share the same principle this is of course it is a fundamental aspect but you have to understand how do they interpreted this in the local level so there should be those a bit of flexibility and utopian you know maybe not too much for exhibit but a bit of flexibility in some things we have different cultures in brussels we have heard the north koreans are which is quite a region and the sound in part of europe culture which is more flexible and there is a polish with korea somewhere in the middle east those i think know the polish or leaving me in a really interesting moment because a they also have their own culture sure just consider the ball and the walls are for many years is socially scone but also it was probably the only socially scone to have the very deep christian catholic feeling of allegiance and this mixed is very strange because it could be go

see that is a paradox isn't in quince now it comes out and they want to strength to do on the specific polish identity and did the radio show to you know to fight against do a peon union and to send messages i sometimes hear the poll say that they brussels elites do not really practice what they preach they say it's about principles but they themselves are not always live up to those principles and i think that's very similar to how the russians framed their disagreements with europe before that you're craning crisis which makes me wonder if you in the european union will have to redefine how it sees itself and how it defines its prints. it falls in the face of both this external tensions and this internal defense that we're seeing from poland and to some extent from italy yes european union is now in the in a very interesting stage in the sense that the goal or no so it would appear and

you know and becomes more and more difficult because the more european news and large itself the more we have more and more member and is more and more and more difficult to find would say senior jean said the opinion breaks it would be a big defeat of do in any case starting to have come to that that leaving do opinion no duels on the opinion that could represent enough spect they could be followed by other countries in the future if they're not happy about the policy of the libyan you know so for the next elections next year of the it will be an pon them and the both of these of the peon you neal and they should do recall seriously we can see there they are approach to the international relations inside of european countries and which could be part of the flexibility that they can have to meet in order to avoid the explosion of the european well professor felt we

have to leave it there really appreciate your being with us today and thank you very much for your insights thank you do you encourage your peers to keep this conversation going on our social media pages and i hope to hear again same place same time here on all the part. i don't have faith in this government official of president of the f.c.c. this is just a license i've got it's a law i'm just a broken system that it's not just for people like me. as long as there are.

different people who are here for different reasons we also just we also have. most people in philadelphia are only about two paychecks away from homelessness. and. leave. it. to. the

lead. a little bit for a good. idea of what he did. to your family if i'm going to be. in the week's top stories just minutes off to blast off a malfunction on a russian soyuz rocket forces the crew's escape capsule to reject and send the astronauts back. almost two weeks gone and there's still no long to won't happen to a prominent journalist who vanished after entering the saudi embassy in istanbul turkey claims he was murdered there something riyadh's denies. the german chancellor is conservative allies score a dismal was.