we hear you on our w. employees in gaza our picketing your office there are even people standing with signs that say mathy is out why hasn't the agency done more to keep its rank and file employed you know well you know for me the answer to this is we have here in gaza thirteen thousand employees thousands of which work on what we call the emergency appeal we have several pots of money one of which is the emergency of fuel not for the emergency appeal we ran out of money completely at the end of june we had to take a loan to continue the food distribution to one million people it's a huge hugely significant that we're able to continue this three hundred people of the thousands have kept their jobs full time about six hundred ten had to be moved to part time just simply because we do not have enough money and just over one hundred had to be separated now it's dramatic and tragic for the hundred or so losing their jobs but as

a manager i have to say it is overall remarkable that we had we we could limited to these numbers so the usa to you number three hundred sixty five million correct and like you said earlier other nations stepped up and reduced syria just this deficit to sixty five billion i mean that that's really huge why are there still layoffs if the loss of american money isn't as severe as it was thought. well you mentioned there is still a deficit so i have been very clear and you know the deficit is sizable it's more than sixty million dollars which is not small by any standard so we've are significantly reduced good but we are still below sea level we are still struggling to breathe and when you don't have enough money sadly then affects a couple of people i've consistently said from the beginning of the year and in these decisions in july if we get our complete deficit covered and new money for

the emergency appeal on top of it we can reconsider these decisions we are sadly not in that situation yet so there are there are other downfalls as well the agencies laying off local workers angry mobs are threatening international employees i hear you had to evacuate people that you and i are w.a. in gaza in real danger from all sides no. no i wouldn't say that and we didn't evacuate people because they are lives threatened what we did was there was indeed a serious security incident but what led to this is that some of our angry employees have really been preventing us from working in our main office and have chased us around our alternative work locations in gaza and then there was this one incident which could have turned into something very problematic and so i then decided with

my leadership that it would be prudent for a limited time to withdraw all non-essential staff from gaza to essentially give the clear message to the rulers here that is getting a lot of money to keep its services open and for that we need to be functional and you know then a few days later i was union actually stopped its industrial action we are currently in ten days of grace a grace period as they call it to negotiate and we have brought our international colleagues back because at this point we are functional again so let's talk about a little bit about the role of your agency you an r w a has taken care of gaza like nobody else since almost house of thousands are unemployed and most of them are considered refugees by your agency. your agency provides gazans with education job training health services might make her credit not to mention basic

stuff like food so are you guys essentially taking on a government role here have you become like the palestinians i don't know social ministry. that's a good question i indeed myself often say that the core of what we do here in gaza is to provide government like services to seventy percent of the population so we run two hundred seventy five schools for two hundred eighty thousand children at this point we run twenty two primary health care centers which are visited each three months each quarter by one million people to get essential basic medical treatment and care and we do some social work so these three areas education health and social services are indeed government like and because seventy percent and more of the population here are refugees we are indeed the biggest public service provider in the street in addition we are providing a couple of other services the biggest one is food distribution to

a million people half the population that i call humanitarian aid it's a response to the three wars that have happened here and we are doing in addition to our public services humanitarian work like the food distribution and cash for workers to beauty's so that you know that your funding has been cut well hamas been able to fill in the hole that will be left. that is not really on the table at all because we have a clear mandate from the united nations general assembly to provide these services to palestine registered palestine refugees and the the way this would end onerous stopping these services and potentially handing them over to host or sora these would be if the general assembly decides there is actually a just solution for palestine refugees and for the question of palestine this is

not the case at all so from a political and mandate point of view there is absolutely no reason why we should hand over these services to anyone else we need a political just solution for the refugees and then we can start discussing how we eventually hand over to water over ever all soroti is relevant but dr bell i have never thought that taking care of palestinians in such an encompassing way means that you kind of treat them like little kids who are unable to fend for themselves . in some way get asked that question from time to time but i don't think that providing basic education from classes one to nine and providing basic health care makes people dependent children because all we're doing really is at the end of the day prepare them for adult life and make sure they're healthy everything else is

not under all rose responsibility and by that i mean in particular the economy i think you made earlier a reference to very high unemployment here of over fifty percent by no saw or does not take care of all aspects of palestine refugee lives what we basically do is give them some hope and a basic chance to make use of the opportunities that come their way we are not like perry. and certainly do not treat the refugees like arabs so you wrote that good governance and unity government is what gaza needs to offset the effects of the israeli blockade and the lack of solution to the palestinian conflict that's great but i mean if we were to get real where will that good governance really come from if it hasn't been there for all these decades you know that's a good question i think the same question must be. everywhere in palestine.

you know as a representative of the united nations of course what we would say is good governance comes from elections i mean people the citizens in the habitants of the gaza strip of any country need to give a proper or a mandate to the point and political parties and actors that present themselves for elections so what what we would urge is that there are proper political processes like elsewhere and as you will know part of the so-called reconciliation talks that started last year about a year ago was indeed in the central element was to at some point reach elections so i think until there is space is not is created for proper political processes we will not see good governance we need good solid political processes including elections ok but once again how will they know who to vote for if their government

services are provided by you know their own officials. well there is a lot more that the government does than providing these essential services i am thinking all the infrastructure you know roads i am thinking of water provision i'm thinking of elec tree city i'm thinking of security i'm thinking all the legal framework for the economic sector for the private sector all those things are an essential government responsibility and if there was a free and fair elections here and also already came into being that took care of these services that would not at all contradict with water all right is doing for the refugees in terms of education health and social services i think this would become still could be seen as very complementary the government and the elected government as has happened here in the past by the way and is ongoing the thirty

percent of the population that are not registered refugees are being taken care of in education and all the terms by the local authorities already read that fish while they aware of going to take a short break right now when we're back continue talking to dr jasser director of the united nations relief and works agency discussing whether there is a glimmer of hope for palestinian refugees stay with us. join me every thursday on the alex salmond and i'll be speaking to guess what the world of politics or business i'm show business i'll see you then.

when the whole make this manufacture come sentenced to public will see. when the ruling closest to protect themselves. with the crime and clear your own lives and neither will most of the. week in the middle of the room six. million more you need proof. obama codified the worst tendencies of wall street institutionalized a kleptocracy journal a blind eye to the excesses of the really though the raps on on on financed in america who are still frank with impunity and cannot sell this is draining the

sloppy of us fortunately i must say that it does mean that interest rates are going to start going higher and this is for the first time in thirty two years the bond market bull rally we've had with thirty two years or longer this looks like it's coming to an end and that is a fundamental shift huge change in the economy for the world and for the united states going forward so that will be the big story of the next twenty four months. news you know one of the. on the world. total room going to. be. a lot of money we didn't know. oh you're to go to post due to this move for your.

community. well bad weather doctor about the director of the united nations relief and works agency for palestine talking about the challenges. facing gaza is obviously very hurt by the israeli hostility that is one thing but this fight between palestinians is another just recently west bank palestine tried to stop a shipment of fuel for a power plant in gaza palestine how does this rivalry affect what you have to do in gaza how do you offset the effects of this infighting. we are not directly affected by the challenges. in your leadership because as we discussed earlier all drop here is to provide keep public like services education

house and social services that are not dependent on on the local authorities we need to have good cooperation but they are not dependent on any in-fighting or differences of opinion what is happening is that whenever they fight and don't agree and when the west bank takes measure of course it effects the population at large if there's not enough fuel to run and electricity everyone is affected including the refugees and that increases the pressures from the population the refugees in our case for additional services so there is a knock on effect in terms of additional humanitarian needs but it does not directly the rift between the west bank and here does not directly affect the provision of alcor services fossella in the west bank is trying to make life worse for hamas in gaza life gets worse hamas sends people to the israeli border to blow

some steam clashes break out people die and next thing you know there's another israeli operation in gaza spurred by the interim palestinian right. only in the schools goodbye and your employees. how can you be working in a place like base and stick to them in day when you see how the politics of this whole affair are making it almost impossible for you to be successful. one of the two comments i would have to that is number one we sadly have had three wars here over the last decade or so and through these through wars and hostilities kept working we kept providing our basic services the twenty fourteen war was largely in the summer so in a sense we were lucky then because the schools were not there were not open because of the summer holidays and instead our schools were actually became a shelter for desperate people trying to flee and seek shelter from the hostilities

but in essence our health centers for example through all three wars have been operational so that's one comment the second comment is we all hope that there will not be another outbreak of was still a to end war because you are right with your question if that were the case it will not only make everyone's life here more miserable put lives in danger it will make also our or the provision of our core services much more difficult and if it is an outright war possibly impossible so for the sake of the two million citizens here including the one point three million refugees we must do everything possible and the political players on all sides must do everything possible to avoid another war that's not about hamas hamas is considered by most of the world a terror organization and it's not exactly a democratic one un valley it's spousal groups right how do you deal with hamas interfering in your activities i've heard for instance that hamas fire bombed your

mixed gender summer camps that extremists try to kill one of your predecessors why is hamas in call flaked with you i mean you're not even part of this large war anyways. there is and there are many different sides to hamas and i don't really want to be drawn into a political discussion into a political discussion of i do want to describe to you how we work together you cannot operate as united nations this is not just wouldn't but you in d.p. world health organization and in fact other international organizations like the international committee of the red cross you cannot work in a place like gaza without pragmatic corporation with the locals or eighty's which are hamas in this case hero or have been for most of the last few years and what that pragmatic cooperation looks like in the interest of the people we're serving is on the one hand technical cooperation with line ministries for example

throughout the last couple of years the ministry of health here which is under the control of the of the union government has done a good job a good service and we have pragmatically worked with our health teams have worked with the health professionals in the ministry of health similarly ministry of education we have over all healthy pragmatic relationship with the ministry which again is linked also to the p.a. so there is this kind of pragmatic technocratic corporation let's say and then the other area is security must be a factor of control security here and we would not be able to function none of us from the international side and that includes visitors media people if hamas did not provide the basic security and for most of the time they actually do provide that this does not mean we agree with them politically i'm not making a political statement on the water does in political terms or in military terms i'm

purely describing to you that we have over all a functional relationship with them well your organization also comes under fire from. pro israeli side one of the main american arguments against un r w a is that it enables a mass of people to leave on entitlements do you feel that maybe you were providing livelihood to so many people also makes them used to you dependent on nate not be able to live without it basically from an american point of view it's like having people on welfare all the time do you see their point here. i think that's a nonsensical argument if if indeed the one point three million people were deep and entirely in terms of their livelihoods that would be an argument we would have to deal with but to repeat what i said earlier walk we do is provide basic

education if you go to any american city like chicago or new york there is public education system if you go to any city in the united kingdom for example or in germany there is basic primary health care being provided by the state so no one talks of people using those services being totally dependent on the state and our relationship with the refugees is the same we provide core services like education and tells to give them a chance in life to have perspectives because they have a basic education to keep them healthy in terms of what they make their life that is not our responsibility that each individual's responsibility and then also of course the responsibility of refugee and other political leaders so what i keep reading everywhere what your critics say in israel and in the united states is that your agency inflates the number of palestinian refugees that if the u.n.

criteria is to be applied there are number of would be ten times less than the way you count them i don't know if it's true or not but if it is then why is your criteria for palestinians even those who have citizenship or citizens' rights in other countries different from other you are an agency is criteria. ok first of all it's just in correct this claim that we use criteria that are different from the ones the united nations high commissioner for refugees u.n.h.c.r. uses is nonsense the u.n.h.c.r. similarly has for certain situations a system where they register and support descendants of an all regional refugee population examples of this you can find in afghanistan as an example so it is simply not true that we have different criteria and different approaches the reason we keep registering the descendants of the or original generation of seven hundred

thousand or so that seventy years ago were thrown off their land is a question of justice we think that for as for any population in history in if you get removed from your land forcibly you are entitled to a just solution and so the main purpose of our registration of refugees even those who may for example by now be in the united states or germany or elsewhere is to keep alive the question of justice because if ever there is a just solution then all these registered people will be able to participate in that just solution it doesn't mean obviously that a refugee who now lives in the united states and possibly has a green card there prob benefits from all services we only provide the services we've talked about to the refugees who are actually here in gaza in this case and need them so there is a difference between registration as witnessed function just as function and the

provision of services so another thing israel says is that by broadly designating palestinians as refugees you know agency indirectly as support to palestinian political costs their right of return mainly do you think that's the main reason for united states and israel to be hoss. out towards your are that is ation. well our perception as is the perception of others and the refugees themselves to start with is that indeed they are attempts to take the refugee question off the table and what i mean by that is to take the question of justice of the table no the united states is one of the member states as is israel by the way of the united nations that has made clear commitments through various resolutions of the general assembly to the palestine refugees to find in call of course dialogue with israel

a just solution and so for us it is not a question of perpetuating the problem through the refugee status and giving them services the real problem is the absence of a just and fair solution and the united states and israel and the international community in deed need to as a whole not focus on what we do but must focus on the question of where is a just solution once there is a just solution will go away i would love nothing more than to be the last director in gaza not because we run out of money but because there is a just solution and we are no longer needed to provide services to the descendants of those who were thrown off their land and the fish really just really briefly you're part of the united nations to your organization is adamant about being nurtured in the israeli palestinian dispute but still by supporting the right of return aren't you losing go on

a trial it is since in case of this particular conflict it is a major political issue. no i understand the question we are not a political organization we are a service provision instrument as we have talked of. the right to return is found in resolutions of the general assembly there are political processes within the united nations chiefly in the you're not in the general assembly of which all member states are part of that's where those discussions take place we focus on providing services to the refugees until the politicians find a solution for the problem thank you for this interview you were talking to dr matthew as a director of the united nations relief and works agency for palestine discussing how the u.s. funding cuts will affect it's help to refugees that is it for this edition of so i'll see you next time.

take tyranny you too can be disappeared in broad daylight also the fate of a saudi journalist is testing washington's relations with riyadh is the crown prince is ruled out and much much more on this edition. of face the love president facing the system. the broken system. there are. different people here for different reasons.

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angela merkel says voters have lost confidence in politicians after the chance of this key ally suffers an upset him to various regional elections. the consulate in istanbul of the claims a journalist was murdered by a hit squad inside the building riyadh has denied all accusations. that he's been given instructions on how to behave online to having his internet access partially restored by the ecuadorian embassy.