cross talking saudi arabia i'm joined by my guest joe maccarone in washington he's a policy analyst at the arab center washington d.c. and in bluefield we cross to call in kabul he is a associate professor of political science at bluefield state college gentlemen cross-like rules in effect that means he can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it joe let me go to you first in washington. the more naming this program search for justice i mean after everything is said and done do you think we'll ever really know what happened to jamal go ahead. i mean the typically we know too much than the other you know situations that happens in this part of the word i mean we already have a lot of leaking a lot of detailed information we're not sure how much all of them are accurate but this one thing clear that he went into this consulate that he never came out so

obviously there was a crime there the issue is what with the turkish authorities would play now obviously they're playing a little bit the mind game with the intelligence game they leak gradually whenever they feel the u.s. easing their sort of the leak more so they are in control of the game somehow and of course they have help from the u.s. media was very much involved because the special she was the washington post columnist so i think we know too much on this the investigation once it's and to have a clear indication the issue is no political one not anymore in the physician. who of us will do what you will do at what level of the saudi. government would be would be involved what the future of your cell jubilation what the future of the home of the film and the current culprits so i think we know that the great the mystery of the state we have to see if the u.s. intelligence will have access to it or turkey will eventually release it or not if

it's accurate or not there's lot of unknown this point but this one think leave that as i said he went into this consulate and he never came out ok come on why don't you weigh in on that there because i think we'd all agree the crown prince over the last two years or so particularly the last year has been on a huge charm offensive with the west and as we pieced this together and joe didn't put it said it very well the evidence that we have at hand or what we believe to be true would basically nullify that charm offensive because there is it looks. almost crystal clear here joe said it right he went into the consulate never came out and now we're hearing from turkish media some very gruesome details that we not necessarily have to repeat here on this program so what about the crown prince calling in bluefield. that saudi arabia.

has possibly kill jamal because show is not something in the shocking to those who follow the wholesale slaughter what mohamed bin salman or m.b.a.'s for short people refer to him may have been startled by is the reaction of certain members of the united states congress. the twenty two senators are on alert or. calling for the global magnitsky act to be implemented because of this disappearance saudi arabia has killed lots of people over the years there are many bodies that the hassle so far is directly responsible for there are missing princes that the house of saud is

directly responsible for so anyone who's studied saudi arabia and follows what they do over the years is not shocked by the fact that marcus garvey was probably dismembered and brought back to saudi arabia so that's not sucking what is shocking is instead their reaction the u.s. conference. ok well and also joe if i can go back to you i mean donald trump is really trying to play both sides here i mean he's a he sent pompei o two to riyadh and amazingly enough pompei i had a grin on his face the entire time about the optics were very bizarre. and it's already been really mentioned here does saudi arabia feel that they can act with impunity they can and this is you know the the record that human rights record saudi arabia is quite clear but i mean this was a columnist for the washington post and it's one of the reasons why the washington

post and western media have taken an interest in this story if he hadn't been that it would be very very different again the impunity issue joe go ahead. i mean i remember when he was head of the cia he went to to riyadh and photos of seventeen a few months later a few weeks later he went that he met the former saudi crown prince muhammad bin nayef was that was that he loved. and washed in here a few months after the visit he was that it was a clear message from from n.b.s. that he is the person to deal with not anyone else so would know after this open clear violation of with the with the trumpets on the low. this you had a lot of puti in yemen in the al gore cult on that what he did was kind of. that he's emboldened the nobody can stop it if he has trouble on his side nobody can stop and this eventually led to what happened in the stumbled over second so no

the issue is what will trump do no he's still doing business as usual but this the pressure in washington i'm going to grow more and more and eventually he has to change nobody is talking about changing the nature of your soldier relations but we have to change the approach of yes that would relations possibly m.b.'s must that don't if he's not in power year and he's doing what he's doing imagine why. what once he becomes the king and he completely control illegally. and all parts of the government and then there would be no they versed inside the mourner should not diversity in the saudi media and would have an extension of what you seem to know so yes the first should be over the congress i think that i think the lead move forward they're going to pressure the government that's a step that could be taken immediately to god think your support for yemen regarding the open channel between between question and b.s. should immediately and should be. thinking of how is the u.s.

so delicious but there's a lot of challenges of that. but going to change i think could actually over the coming weeks and months you know tony it's very interesting i mean it took this story. about jamal's fate to really shines some light on the monarchy in saudi arabia because you know in west in particular in american media they don't really talk about it very much and it's usually paid off people to say glowing things about saudi arabia and it's great reforms and i mean it's really pathetic p.r. job most of the time but because of this tragic event that we know the details that we know of you know people are beginning to say yeah you're right there's a yemen and especially kidnapping the lebanese prime minister the whole thing in syria you know it's really put a lot of focus on saudi arabia in ways that i think the crown prince is not very

happy about and this is what i think again also motivating congress and we have to remember everybody this is now a political football in american domestic politics a cudgel to go against donald trump here it is that he was dealt a very weird situation and i have to say president trump hasn't handled it very well today go ahead go on. will. your audience million dollar no the jomar because sharkey. was the biggest on still in the world it was. no longer shark who had the world's largest yacht who he saw on that yacht eventually to donald trump so donald trump is intimately connected to this shoddy family and he is received millions of dollars from the sorry over the years so would congress in these members of the senate are

trying to do right before the midterm elections is to put on trial into a bar only make him do something about the relationship with saudi arabia oh of members of congress know has been corrupt for decades ok karl let me stay with you just for saying so would you say in light of what you just said it's not really about the hundred billion dollar plus military supply deals keep to mention him because i find it very odd that he mentions that is that it's really not and it hasn't been signed off on these are members memorandums of understanding so it's there's really no real money in play as of yet and these arms deals are projected to go into the future it's just that one ok so you're saying the arms sale things that probably is not the real reason because i for trump says go ahead go on. to the democrats worry and power in there with do the same arms deals with. barack

obama when he was an hour or so the difference is that the republican president donald trump is in power is going to major arms deals with saudi arabia wrote now and the democrats want to put some smart. check on it as to the republicans and on to the republican president. ok let's hope cohen hang out here let me let me go to joe let me go to joe here before we go to the break here. we're going to have a break we're just sort of public as a congress a lot of people supporting democrats on this just too quick to call in the republicans in congress are pressuring to throw more than democrats rubio lindsey graham a lot of the that so it's not only democrats yeah you have certain republicans and you have democrats but these are those who have been against for the year and they have not been. corners and they see him as

a danger to grab as his buddy that they go for the day so. i think you know we're going to hang on hang on guys are going to go to a break real quick but you're actually highlighting really what there is a very very deep relationship here that is not being i think very very well covered in western media because everyone's getting paid off in my mind we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on saudi arabia stay with r.t. . and you'll dump out the kind of that. type of time talking point out.

in some plan there is a trade in young girls souls into an underground sex in the street sometimes but the people they trust the most. i don't have faith in this government i don't have faith or love president i don't have space in the system nice to have god i'm too liberal the system designed for people like me who move. as broadly. defined the poor here for different reasons the loss of job loss of home.

most people in philadelphia ballot two paychecks away from homelessness. i've been saying the numbers mean something they matter the u.s. has over one trillion dollars in debt more than ten white collar crime tamping each day. eighty five percent of global wealth you longs to the ultra rich eight point six percent market saw a thirty percent rise last year some with four hundred to five hundred three per second per second and bitcoin rose to twenty thousand dollars. china is building a two point one billion dollar a i industrial park but don't let the numbers overwhelm. the only numbers you need to remember is one one distance shows you can't afford to miss the one and only.

prosecution will need to become almost. where you. just read the fine. by the number one place you do i mean. business models used by american corporations. he's sold on good mental disease has a new album use citric shows the amana was macomo seen. through the solution. eyes up in association with people. i know who can he saw some of those it is just really his ability to maintain an investigative documentary. ghost war on oxy. welcome back to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to

remind you we're discussing saudi arabia. ok jill one of the things i found really quite interesting after the the supposition that because she had been interrogated and killed the royal family instantly almost simultaneously said we can wreck our become your economies in the west particularly the united states we can use the word the oil weapon and i'm paraphrasing here but that is not been said for forty five years that is taboo and everybody knows that we could gain because it can really make the markets volatile but that was to first card that they played does that make you feel the confident that they're going to come through with a legitimate investigation because it was so quick and threatening if we're sanctioned you will pay for it that is remarkable and for a country that is pivotal in the oil markets it is traditionally belief in the last

four decades played a very reasonable role as that pivotal. producer that all changed almost in a matter of hours go ahead joe and yes you're right that's to use this weapon was the nineteenth of the three and this. whole change in u.s. policy the whole of the middle east so obviously this is the first impulse of. has obviously the signature on it it's the message was meant to be alone in this message alone so official the message is i have to throw the book the congressional the congressional election in november that we can change and this may be the hope was to change his calculus on that level after the u.s. embassy the saudi embassy in riyadh the issue of the fifth which is no we believe in yourselves. if this will happen this will impact saudi arabia as much as the word because part of being in order to produce so energy producer you have to have

this is a sustained flow of energy otherwise people going to go somewhere else and now the market it's expanding the u.s. doesn't no longer need saudi oil europeans have more diversity so the market is is changing now they're not as much as influential and they will impact themselves more they impact the word but they are doing this cut i think because they want to say that there is a reaction from them and they had one audience in mind as donald trump. a colony how is that how do you see trump playing this here because like i said before when to the break i don't think he's playing it very well because there will be serious consequences again paraphrasing and then he within one news cycle he he backed off and he's talking about the importance of the relationship here i mean and his critics are really savaging hear him here i mean it's it's kind of theoretical do you support human rights or a realist and when you know when you're talking intellectually like that that's

fine but when you're using a specific example it doesn't come off very well i mean it in and trump is it doesn't seem like he has a really good grip on it for maybe reasons that you mention and in the first part of the program there's the saudi arabia has its tentacles everywhere in the u.s. economy and you know as bob dylan said money doesn't talk it screams and i hear oh i think a lot of money is screaming right now go ahead collen. don't drop. money money for money for the country moving from girls and he wants to keep. saudi arabia in the money flowing so when he hears the contrary to what you did earlier recent the saudi arabia has. a killing jamal because. from my. information right now all that has been reported is that they are

thinking about yes. they it's assumed there dave did change their position then reports say that there is an interest of patients that indeed yes that he accidently died during an interrogation keep going calling it true or indicating that we don't know the facts so that's going to be years but it is probably going to be not to admit to killing because even though the amount of the evidence. in a little. to the point where it is pretty evident the what happened and you can see that by the fact that u.s. intelligence has already said they have caught. the online giving orders to undertake this capture of. the interrogation and the killing of sharkey now the turkish

security said their video and audio. either through the apple watch because sarkozy was worried or through the bugging of the turkish the saudi consulate in istanbul but they have not released that information yet so this initially led me peter and mr joe to think that this was a shakedown by turkey and u.s. intelligence just says b.s. last a year ago in november got over one hundred saudi princes billionaires and millionaires into the ritz carlton and shook them now and so the u.s. and turkey want to get some money from saudi arabia we're going to do the same thing so it was either a shakedown going on of saudi arabia or winds or heads and us foreign policy were realizing that india's is

a total failure. of qatar is right a port isis in syria is war in yemen is leading to the demise of this traditional honey part for members of congress and for the us ruling class and so they want to get him dislodged so they can put back in and another more favorable royal as mr joe talked about earlier before him he has. well. you know it joe it's interesting i've been reading reports that american intelligence sources were aware of jamal's of visit and the intentions potential intentions of the saudi government here and that kind of backs up a little bit what colin was saying right there and because there is criticism of people that are aware of this saying that there was an interview it wasn't in intervention warning him off so again i started this program the plot thickens

because the more we learn the more we understand that there are different motives from different people in play go ahead joe. yeah that's a big question because obviously a lot of reporting said that the u.s. intelligence was aware that there was a plot to print both to kill him so why he was not informed what the washington post was looking for because the rest of the virginia he's known he's a known. figure for for all you know officials involved so why he was not. warned there's some reporting saying that he was lured from here from officials here and watch the saudi officials to go it to stumble because obviously it's easy for them to to operate there. so i think that they didn't expect this reaction of the they were expecting maybe to have to hide the evidence but they i mean the turks i mean i don't believe for the upper washed obvious the only option is they had. they were spying on what's happening inside the only with the way they're

a little bit of that and showing the video maybe because there were people will discover they were bugging the well i mean joe joe let me ask you a question i mean if they if he was lured if he was lured there and he is a resident of the united states why didn't he go to the saudi consulate in washington d.c. to get this marriage document why would he go to a place where. he believes he could you know i mean you know that's a third party turkey is not disinterested for i'm what you and colin. said here i mean it looks like it was very callous unless he had another reason to go that far to get this document because apparently it's fiance was outside the consulate with his phone he didn't bring the phone in with him this is what we're learning here go ahead joe i mean you. can't just speculate we can't know really what's happening the reporting is said that he had meetings with the saudi ambassador here and he give them the impression that he's welcome and he can do whatever he needed the

papers to get mad at them some bull in turkey so he needed a letter from the saudi call sort of the report to give the us can they go there. get the paper to be more. in line with what this official to this is want to indorse your. age these days we can just speak it doesn't matter just if you went to washington he went to stumble there was an intent to so basically sign the senate somewhere and this happens that's happened so the question is from the u.s. politics perspective is did the u.s. intelligence know you know why they didn't inform and they informed the white house of the white house and inform. you know authorities involved in tokyo or elsewhere we don't know the big of questions that are yet to be answered or maybe never we don't know or maybe never cohen you know again another one of the threats that from

the house of saud is that they might realign their foreign policy or buy weapons from other countries that is just bluster that is absolutely nonsense it would cost . billions and billions and billions of dollars to reintegrate let's say russian or chinese technology i mean almost all of it is american british and french i mean again to just bluster you know who's doing the p.r. over there i mean it's is it's very i'm sorry juvenile sounding and sound that i get child. being on the ground go ahead cohen. well it is true the mohamed bin song believes that with him and the leadership of saudi arabia they can be much more proactive in the region you know they. went to iraq that iran gets to act. with their impunity and that the people in the country of iran support the government much more than they do and sort of really

good sort of maybe everybody knows that the royal family it's corrupt everybody knows that there's no justice in saudi arabia instead it's just that the saudis rule for themselves and they don't care about anybody else but mamak been solon thinks that the head. moves saudi arabia into a position where he can intervene in syria and yemen in other places and then eventually i mean movement calling concow and he's he has been doing that. with disastrous effect. disastrous results and. you know we have to look how it's going to be presented to the american public. the people who are watching his case will go are shocked about saudis killing someone they said oh here's

a humanitarian or freedom right here some more and and that is why i said that's why we've run out of time here that's why i've had two years of p.r. a charm offensive seems to have gone nowhere many thanks and i guess in washington and in bluefield and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t.c. next time and remember the last couple. seems wrong. to me you get to shape out these days you can get educated and engaged with equals betrayal.

when so many find themselves worlds apart. just to look for common ground. i don't have faith in this government official of president i don't have faith in the system i see i've got it i'm too liberal the system designed for people like me . is bloodless. defend the poor here for different reasons lost a job lost a home. most people in philadelphia ballot two paychecks away from homelessness. pranking gave americans a lot of job opportunities i needed to come up here to make some money i

could make twenty five thousand dollars as a teacher or i could make fifty thousand dollars a year truck so i chose to drive a truck people rush to a small town in north dakota was among the employment rate of zero percent like the gold rush is very very similar to a gold rush but this beautiful story ended with pollution and devastation a lot of people have left here i don't know too many people here anymore just slowed down so much they lost jobs got laid off and the american dream is changing that's not what it used to be. and that's a tough reality to. cure

. amy in mourning the first funerals are being held first some of the twenty. first we call the trunk of. the separation. of some of. the bones of. the bali one. as facebook and twitter take different approaches over. video politics whether you're content gets a blog.