manufacture consent to public wealth. when the ruling classes protect themselves. with the merry go round. we can all middle of the room. hello and welcome to cross talk we're all waiting for considered i'm peter lavelle the gruesome plot thickens there are reports the saudis now will admit he died in

their custody after an interrogation that went wrong turkish media claim they have evidence of intentional murder nonetheless trump declares he's not going to walk away from saudi arabia will there ever be justice for jamal khashoggi. cross talking saudi arabia i'm joined by my guest joe maccarone in washington he's a policy analyst at the arab center washington d.c. and in bluefield we cross to call in kabul he is a associate professor of political science at bluefield state college gentlemen cross-talk rules in effect that means he can jump in anytime he wants and i always appreciate joe let me go to you first in washington. the more name in this program search for justice mean after everything is said and done do you think we'll ever really know what happened to jamal go ahead.

i mean the typically we know too much than the other you know a situation that happens in this part of the word i mean we already have a lot of leaking a lot of these that information we're not sure how much all of them are accurate but this one thing clear that he went into this consulate that he never came out so obviously there was. a crime there the issue is what with the turkish authorities would play now obviously they're playing a little bit the mind game with the intelligence game they leak gradually whenever they feel the u.s. easing the sort of the leak more so they are in control of the game somehow and of course they have help from the u.s. media was very much involved because special she was the washington post columnist so i think we know too much on this the investigation once it's and to have a clear indication the issue is no political one not anymore in the physician. who of us will do what turkey will do at what level of the saudi.

government would be would be involved what the future of your cell jubilation what the future of the home of the film and the current culprits so i think we know that the great the mystery now of the state we have to see if the u.s. intelligence will have access to it or turkey will eventually illicit or not if it's accurate or not there's lot of unknown sporran but this one thing clear that as i said he went into this consulate and he never came out ok come on why don't you weigh in on that there because i think we'd all agree the crown prince over the last two years or so particularly the last year has been on a huge charm offensive with the west and as we pieced this together and joe did put it said it very well the evidence that we have at hand or what we believe to be true would basically nullify that charm offensive because there is.

almost crystal clear here joe said it right he went into the consulate never came out and now we're hearing from turkish media some very gruesome details that we not necessarily have to repeat here on this program so what about the crown prince calling in bluefield. that saudi arabia. has possibly kill jamal because show is not something in the shocking to those who follow the wholesale slaughter what mohamed bin salman or m.b.a.'s for short people refer to him may have been startled by is the reaction of certain members of the united states congress. the twenty two senators are on alert or. calling for the global mcness the

act to be implemented because of this disappearance saudi arabia has killed lots of people over the years there are many bodies that the hassle so far is directly responsible for their own missing princes that the house of saud is directly responsible for so anyone who studies saudi arabian followers what they do over the years is not shocked by the flag. marcus garvey was probably dismembered and brought back to saudi arabia so that's not sucking what is shocking is instead their reaction the u.s. conference. ok well and also joe if i can go back to you i mean donald trump is really trying to play both sides here i mean he's a he sent pompei o two to riyadh and amazingly enough pompei i had a grin on his face the entire time about the optics were very bizarre. and it's

already been really mentioned here does saudi arabia feel that they can act with impunity they can and this is you know the the record that human rights record saudi arabia is quite clear but i mean this was a columnist for the washington post and it's one of the reasons why the washington post and western media have taken an interest in this story if he hadn't been that it would be very very different again the impunity issue joe go ahead. i mean i remember when he was the head of the cia he went to to riyadh and photos of seventeen a few months later a few weeks later i mean he went that he met the former saudi crown prince muhammad bin nayef was that he was very loved by the unwashed and here a few months after the visit he was that it was a clear message from from n.b.s. that he is the person to deal with not anyone else so would know after this open clear violation of with the with the trumpets on the low. this you had

a lot of puti in yemen in the al gore cult on the what he did with canada. that he was involved in that nobody can stop it if he has trouble on his side nobody can stop in this eventually lead to what happened in the stumbled over second so no the issue is what will trump do no he's still doing business as usual but this the pressure in washington i'm going to grow more and more and eventually he has to change nobody is talking about changing the nature of your cell jubilation but we have to change the approach of yes that would relations possibly m.b.a.'s must have done if he's not in power year and he's doing what he's doing imagine why. what once he becomes the king and he completely control illegally. and all parts of the government and then there would be no they versed inside the mourner should not diversity in the saudi media and would have an extension of what

you seem to know so yes the first should be over the congress i think that i think the lead moving forward going to pressure the government that's a step that could be taken immediately to go to your support for yemen regarding the open channel between between question and immediately should be. thinking of how is the u.s. so delicious but there's a lot of challenges to see the going to change i think gradually over the coming weeks and months you know tony it's very interesting i mean it took this story. about jamal's fate to really shines some light on the monarchy in saudi arabia because you know in west in particular in american media they don't really talk about it very much and it's usually paid off people to say glowing things about saudi arabia and it's great reforms and i mean it's really pathetic p.r. job most of the time but because of this tragic event that we know the details that

we know of you know people are beginning to say yeah you're right there's a yemen and especially kidnapping the lebanese prime minister the whole thing in syria you know it's really put a lot of focus on saudi arabia in ways that i think the crown prince is not very happy about and this is what i think again also motivating congress and we have to remember everybody this is now a political football in american domestic politics a cudgel to go against donald trump here it is that he was dealt a very weird situation and i have to say president trump hasn't handled it very well today go ahead go on. will. your audience millionaire know the jomar because he. was the biggest on still in the world it was. known. who had the world's largest yacht who he

saw on that yacht eventually to donald trump so don't troll up is intimately connected to this. family and he has received millions of dollars from the over the you so would congress in these members of the senate are trying to do right before the midterm elections is to put on trial into a bar and make him do something about the relationship with saudi arabia oh all of members of congress know has been corrupt for decades ok karl let me stay with you just for saying so would you say in light of what you just said it's not really about the one hundred billion dollar plus military supply deals he keeps mentioning because i find it very odd that he mentions that is that it's really not and it hasn't been signed off on these are member memorandums of understanding so it's

there's really no real money in play as of yet and these arms deals are projected to go into the future it is that one ok so you're saying the arms sale things are probably is not the real reason because i thought trump says go ahead go on. it is the democrats were brilliant power and they would do the same arms deals with saudi arabia just as barack obama did when he was out so the difference is that the republican president donald trump is in power is going to major arms deals with saudi arabia wrote now and the democrats want to put some smart. chick on to the republicans and on to the republican president ok let's hope colony and i mean let me go to joe let me go to joe here before we go to the break here jeff we're going to have a break we'll go just sort of public as a congress lot of people supporting democrats on this just a quick sort of call and that republicans in congress are pressuring to throw more

than democrats rubio lindsey graham and a lot of free there so it's not only democrats yeah you have certain republicans and you have democrats but these are goals who have been against trial for the last year and a half now they have not been. supporters of trump they see him as a danger or grab as his buddy that they go for the all day so. most of all i think you know we're going to hang on hang on guys are going to go to a break real quick but you're actually highlighting really where there is a very very deep relationship here that is not being i think very very well covered in western media because everyone's getting paid off in my mind we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on saudi arabia stay with r.t. .

and you might say yo own pal dot com not that i am told paul enough. to know more i. know. him from pen there is a trade in young girls sold into an underground sex in the street sometimes but the people they trust the most. i've been saying the numbers mean something they matter the us has over one trillion dollars in debt more than ten white collar crimes happen each day. eighty five percent of global wealth you longs to be ultra rich feet point six percent

market saw thirty percent rise last year some with four hundred to five hundred three per second per second and bitcoin rose to twenty thousand dollars. china is building a two point one billion dollar a i industrial park but don't let the numbers overwhelm. the only numbers you need to remember is one one does not show you can afford to miss the one and only. prosecution will need to become almost. where you push us to stretch and finds somebody known to seem to i mean yeah i mean i mean political pressure on the. security jenison knows what the bundled up business models used by american corporations. to

use. and the solution. lies up in association because people don't seek out. a notice when he saw small dogs it is just simply his ability to maintain an investigative documentary. ghost war on oxy. welcome back to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing saudi arabia. ok jill one of the things i found really quite interesting after the the supposition that because she had been interrogated and killed the royal family instantly almost simultaneously said we can wreck our become your

economies in the west particularly the united states we can use the word the oil weapon and i'm paraphrasing here but that is not been said for forty five years it is taboo and everybody knows that we could gain because it can really make the markets volatile but that was the first card that they played does that make you feel the confident that they're going to come through with a legitimate investigation because it was so quick and threatening if we're sanctioned you will pay for it that is remarkable and for a country that is pivotal in the oil markets it is traditionally belief in the last four decades played a very reasonable role as that pivotal. producer that all changed almost in a matter of hours go ahead joe and yes you're right the last time to use this weapon was the nineteenth of the three and that's the whole change in u.s. policy the whole of the middle east so obviously this is the first impulse of.

has obviously the signature on it it's the message was meant to be alone in this message of unselfish will the message is i have to throw the. the congressional the congressional election in november that we can change and this may be the hope was to change his calculus on that level after the u.s. embassy the saudi embassy in riyadh issued a statement which is no we believe in yourselves you to. if this will happen this will impact saudi arabia as much as the word because part of being an old produce so as a producer you have to have as a a sustained flow of energy otherwise people going to go somewhere else and now the market it's expanding the u.s. doesn't no longer need saudi oil europeans have more diversity so the market is is changing now they're not as much as influential and they will impact themselves more they impact the word but they are doing the scut i think because they want to

say that there is a reaction from them and they had one audience in mind is donald trump. cohen me how is that how do you see trump playing this here because like i said before when to the break i don't think he's playing it very well because there will be serious consequences again paraphrasing and then he within one news cycle he he backed off and he's talking about the importance of the relationship here i mean and its critics are really savaging hear him here i mean it's it's kind of theoretical do you support human rights or a realist and when you know when you're talking intellectually like that that's fine but when you're using a specific example it doesn't come off very well i mean it in and trump is it doesn't seem like he has a really good grip on it for maybe reasons that you mention and in the first part of the program there's the saudi arabia has its tentacles everywhere in the u.s. economy and you know as bob dylan said money doesn't talk it screams and i hear oh i think a lot of money is screaming right now go ahead collen. don't drop. money

money for money for the country money and for girls and he wants to keep. saudi arabia in the money flowing so when he hears the contrary to what you did earlier recent the saudi arabia has. a killing jamal because a from my. information right now all that has been reported is that they are thinking about yes. they it's assumed there dave did change their position then reports say that there is an interest of patients that indeed yes that he accidently died during an interrogation keep going calling true are indicating that we don't know the first so that's going to be years but it is probably going to be not to admit to killing. even though the amount of the evidence. in

a little there's poet up to the point where it is pretty evident the what happened and you can see that by the fact that u.s. intelligence has already said they have caught. the online giving orders to undertake this capture of a charge. in the interrogation and the killing of sharkey now the turkish security said their video and audio. either through the apple watch their cars are he was wearing or through the bugging the turkish the saudi consulate in istanbul but they have not released that information yet so this initially led me and mr joe to think that this was a shakedown by turkey and u.s. intelligence just says b.s.

last a year ago in november got over one hundred saudi princes billionaires and millionaires into the ritz carlton and shook them now and so the u.s. and turkey want to get some money from saudi arabia we're going to do the same thing so it was either a shakedown going on of saudi arabia or wives or heads and us foreign policy were realizing that india's is a total failure. of qatar is right a port isis in syria is war in yemen is leading to the demise of this traditional honey part for members of congress and for the us ruling class and so they want to get him dislodged so they can put it back in another more favorable

royal as mr joe talked about earlier before him he has. well. you know it joe it's interesting i've been reading reports that american intelligence sources were aware of jamal's of visit and the intentions potential intentions of the saudi government here and that kind of backs up a little bit what colin was saying right there and because there is criticism of people that are aware of this saying that there was an interview it wasn't in vention warning him off so again like i started this program the plot thickens because the more we learn the more we understand that there are different motives from different people in play go ahead joe. yeah that's a big question because obviously a lot of reporting said that the u.s. intelligence was aware that there was a plot to kill him and possibly kill him so why he was not informed why the washington post was not informed he's arrested and virginia is known he's a known. figure for for all you know officials involved so why he was not.

warned there's some reporting saying that he was lured from here from officials here and watch the saudi officials to go it to stumble because obviously it's easy for them to to operate there. so i think they they didn't expect this reaction of the they were expecting maybe to have to hide the evidence but they i mean the turks i mean i don't believe that the approach to obviously the only option is they had. they were spying on what's happening inside the only with the way they're a little bit at that and showing the video maybe because there were people will discover there were bodies the well i mean in general in general let me ask you a question i mean if they if he was lured if he was lured there and he is a resident to be united states why didn't he go to the saudi consulate in washington d.c. to get this marriage document why would he go to a place where he because he believes he could you know i mean it you know that's a third party turkey is not disinterested from what you and colin have said here i

mean it looks like it was very callous unless he had another reason to go that far to get this document because apparently it's been on say he was outside the consulate with his phone he didn't bring the phone in with him this is what we're learning here go ahead joe i mean it. can't just speculate we can't know really what's happening with the reporting is said that he had meetings with the saudi ambassador here and he gave them the impression that he's welcome and he can do whatever and he needed the papers to get mad at them stumble in turkey so he needed a letter from the saudi call sort of the report to give. on the go the get get the paper to be more. in line with what this official to us is want to indorse your age it is we can just speak it doesn't matter as also i'll just if you

went to washington he went to stump or there was an intent to to basically sign the senate some way that happens that's happened so the question is from the u.s. politics perspective is that the u.s. intelligence know you don't know why they don't inform and they inform the white house of the white house and inform. you know authorities involved in turkey or elsewhere we don't know that's a lot big of questions that are yet to be answered or maybe never we don't know or maybe never cohen you know again another one of the threats that from the house of saud is that they might realign their foreign policy or buy weapons from other countries that is just bluster that is absolutely nonsense it would cost saudi arabia billions and billions and billions of dollars to reintegrate let's say russian or chinese technology i mean almost all of it is american british and french i mean again it's just bluster and you know who's doing the p.r.

over there i mean it's is it's very i'm sorry juvenile sounding and sound that i got child stomping on the ground go ahead cohen. well it is true the mama didn't. believe the with him and the leadership of saudi arabia they could be much more. in the region you know the. iran that iran gets to. with impunity and the people who in the country of iran support the government much more than they do in saudi really everybody knows that the royal corrupt everybody knows that there's no. just as in saudi arabia instead it's just that the saudis rule for themselves and they don't care about anybody else but mom and and soul and thinks that he. can move saudi arabia into a position where he can intervene. in syria and yemen in other places and then

eventually. i mean calling can call and he's he has been doing that. with disastrous effect. disastrous results and. you know we have to look how it's being presented to the american public. the people who are watching his case will go are shocked about saudis killing someone they said oh here's a humanitarian a freedom writer. and that is why i said that's why we ran out of time here that's why i've said two years of p.r. charm offensive seems to have gone nowhere many thanks to my guest in washington and in bluefield and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t.c. next time and remember us topples.

don't have faith in this government i don't have faith in love president i don't have faith in the system. i've got a. broken system that is not designed for people like this for me. as well as they. defend the poor here for different reasons loss of job loss of home. most people in philadelphia ballot two paychecks away from homelessness.

most people think just stand out in this business you need to be the first one on top of the story or the person with the loudest voice of the biggest race in truth to stand down the news business you just need as the right questions and demand the right answer. questions. pranking gave americans a lot of job opportunities i needed to come up here to make some money i could make twenty five thousand dollars as a teacher or i could make fifty thousand dollars a year truck so i chose to drive truck people rush to a small town in north dakota was an unemployment rate of zero percent like the gold rush is very very similar to a gold rush but this beautiful story ended with pollution and devastation

a lot of people have left here i don't know too many people here anymore just slow down so much they lost their jobs got laid off from the american dream is changing that's not what it used to be. and it's a tough reality to deal with. crimea in warning the first funerals are held for some of the twenty killed in wednesday's college massacre survive his chance of a clone of them with clothes on the scene down for. the bones of cheney. yeah for us though the folly of false flag. false was fraught is outrage in the u.k. off for the release of a notorious radical islamist cleric who served only half the sentence he received for supporting islamic state. at his facebook and twitter to take different approaches.