hello and welcome to cross talk we're all waiting for considered peter lavelle the gruesome plot thickens there are reports the saudis now will admit died in their custody after an interrogation that went wrong turkish media claim they have evidence of intentional murder nonetheless trump declares he's not going to walk away from saudi arabia will there ever be justice for jamal khashoggi. cross talking saudi arabia i'm joined by my guest joe maccarone in washington he's

a policy analyst at the arab center washington d.c. and in bluefield we cross to call in kabul he is a associate professor of political science at bluefield state college gentlemen cross-talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it joe let me go to you first in washington. the more naming this program search for justice i mean after everything is said and done do you think we'll ever really know what happened to jamal go ahead. i mean the typically we know too much than the other you know a situation that happens in this part of the word i mean we already have a lot of leaking a lot of these that information we're not sure how much all of them are accurate but this one thing clear that he went into this consulate that he never came out so obviously there was a crime there the issue is what with the turkish authorities would play now obviously they're playing a little bit the mind game with the intelligence game they leak gradually whenever they feel the u.s. easing their sort of the leak more so they are in control of the game somehow and

of course they have help from the u.s. media was very much involved because the special she was the washington post columnist so i think we know too much on this the investigation once it's and to have a clear indication the issue is no political one not anymore in the position. of us will do what turkey will do at what level of the saudi. government would be would be involved what the future of your cell jubilation what the future of the man the current conference so i think we know that the great the missile you know this tape we have to see if the u.s. intelligence will have access to it or turkey will eventually release it or not if it's accurate or not there's lot of unknown this point but this one thing clear that as i said he went into this consulate and he never came out ok come on why

don't you weigh in on that there because i think we'd all agree the crown prince over the last two years or so particularly the last year has been on a huge charm offensive with the west and as we pieced this together and joe did put it said it very well the evidence that we have at hand or what we believe to be true would basically nullify that charm offensive because there is. almost crystal clear here joe said it right he went into the consulate never came out and now we're hearing from turkish media some very gruesome details that we don't necessarily have to repeat here on this program so what about the crown prince calling in bluefield. well. let saudi arabia. as possibly kill jamal because show is not something in the shocking to those who follow the wholesale slaughter word mohamed bin

salman or m.b.a.'s for short people referred to in may have been startled by is the reaction oh of certain members of the united states congress. the twenty two senators are on alert or. calling for the global move. to be implemented because of this disappearance saudi arabia has killed lots of people over the years is there or minibus. that the hassle so far is directly responsible for their own missing princes that the house of saud is directly responsible for so anyone who studies saudi arabia and followers what they do over the years is not shocked by the flare. marcus garvey

was probably dismembered and brought back to saudi arabia so that's not sucking what is is instead their reaction the u.s. conference ok well and also joe if i can go back to you i mean donald trump is really trying to play both sides here i mean he's a pompei otoh to riyadh and amazingly enough pompei i had a grin on his face the entire time about the optics were very bizarre. and it's already been really mentioned here does saudi arabia feel that they can act with impunity they can and this is you know the the record that human rights record saudi arabia is quite clear but i mean bass was a columnist for the washington post and it's one of the reasons why the washington post and western media have taken an interest in this story if he hadn't been that it would be very very different again the impunity issue joe go ahead. i mean i remember when he was head of the cia he went to to riyadh in february tells of

seventeen a few months later a few weeks later i mean he when that he met the former saudi crown prince muhammad bin nayef was that he was very loved by the unwashed and here a few months after the visit he was that it was a clear message from from n.b.s. that he is the person to deal with not anyone else so would know after this open clear violation of with the with the trumpets on the low. and that he had a lot of punitive in yemen in the al gore cult on the what he did with canada. that he was involved in the nobody can stop him if he has trouble on his side nobody can stop in this eventually lead to what happened in the stumble on october second so no the issue is what will trump do now he's still doing business as usual but this the pressure in washington i'm going to grow more and more and eventually he has to change nobody is talking about changing the nature of your saudi

relations but we have to change the approach of yes that would relations possibly m.b.'s must have done if he's not in power and he's doing what he's doing imagine what he what once he becomes the king and he completely control illegally eccles is usually end and all parts of the government and then there would be no they versus the inside them on a shoe no diversity in the saudi media and do it have an extension of what you see and know. so yes the child or first that should be over the congress i think that i think the lead move forward they're going to pressure the government that's a step that could be taken immediately to god think your support for yemen regarding the open channel between between question and immediately should be. thinking of how is the u.s. so delicious but there's a lot of challenge of the c. of the but going to change i think could actually over the coming weeks or months

you know cohen it's very interesting i mean it took this story. about jamal's fate to really shines some light on the monarchy in saudi arabia because you know in west in particular in american media they don't really talk about it very much and it's usually paid off people to say glowing things about saudi arabia and it's great reforms and i mean it's really pathetic p.r. job most of the time but because of this tragic event that we know what the details that we know of you know people are beginning to say yeah you're right there's a yemen and especially kidnapping the lebanese prime minister the whole thing in syria you know it's really put a lot of focus on saudi arabia in ways that i think the crown prince is not very happy about and this is what i think again also motivating congress and we have to remember everybody this is now a political football in american domestic politics

a cudgel to go against donald trump here it is that he was dealt a very weird situation and i have to say president trump hasn't handled it very well to date go ahead go on. well you. know just because. the biggest horns do in the world it was. the world's largest yaar. that yard eventually to donald trump so don't troll up is intimately connected to this. family and he is received millions of dollars from the over the you so would congress in these members of the senate are trying to do right before the midterm elections is to put on trial into a bar and make him do something about the relationship with saudi arabia oh of

members of congress know has been corrupt for decades ok to let me stay with you just for saying it so would you say in light of what you just said it's not really about the one hundred billion dollar plus military supply deals he keeps mentioning because i find it very odd that he mentions that is that it's really not and it hasn't been signed off on these are member memorandums of understanding so it's there's really no real money in play as of yet and these arms deals are projected to go into the future it is that one ok so you're saying the arms sale things are probably is not the real reason because i thought trump says go ahead go on. the democrats were brilliant power and they would do the same arms deals with saudi arabia just as barack obama did when he was an hour or so the difference is that the republican president donald trump is in power is going to major arms deals with

saudi arabia wrote now and the democrats want to put some smart. chick on to the republicans and on to the republican president ok in the whole colony and i mean let me go to joe let me go to joe here before we go to the break here. we have a break we're just sort of public as a congress are also supporting democrats on this just a quick sort of call and that republicans in congress are pressuring to throw more than democrats rubio lindsey graham and a lot of free there so it's not only democrats yeah you have certain republicans and you have democrats but these are goals who have been against truong for the last year and a half now they have not been. supporters of trump they see him as a danger or grab as his buddy that they go for the day so. also i think you know we're going to hang on hang on guys are going to go to a break real quick but you're actually highlighting really where there is

a very very deep relationship here that is not being i think very very well covered in western media because everyone's getting paid up in my mind we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on saudi arabia stay with r.t. . i believe that north korea will be ready to nuclearize very soon there could be well saying that i think women about some of the nuclear weapons and materials to be taken to russia and dispose of that if they're then on the basis of need. trust me the united states and russia could help north korea in the energy sector for example build a gas pipeline that's going to railway trucks. the grim reaper of the bond market has appeared with this see what this guy and he's

looking at the global bond market he's got all. this obama apocalypse it's a tsunami bad paper and it's. going to be the greatest financial collapse ever love it. news in the world. on the world. total room. not he didn't. owe your. post does this move for you. tracking gave americans a lot of new job opportunities i needed to come up here to make some money i

could make twenty five thousand dollars as a teacher or i could make fifty thousand dollars a year truck so i chose to drive trucks people rush to a small town in north dakota was an unemployment rate of zero percent just like the gold rush is very very similar to a gold rush but this beautiful story ended with pollution and devastation a lot of people have left here i don't know too many people here anymore just slow down too much they lost jobs got laid off the american dream is changing that's not what it used to be. and it's a tough reality to deal. welcome back to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing saudi arabia.

one of the things i found really quite interesting after the the supposition that because she had been interrogated and killed the royal family instantly almost simultaneously said we can wreck our become your economies in the west particularly the united states we can use the word the oil weapon and i'm paraphrasing here but that is not been said for forty five years that is taboo and everybody knows that we could gain because it can really make the markets volatile but that was the first card that they played does that make you feel confident that they're going to come through with a legitimate investigation because it was so quick and threatening if we're sanctioned you will pay for it that is remarkable and for a country that is pivotal in the oil markets it is traditionally belief in the last

four decades played a very reasonable role as that pivotal. producer that all changed almost in a matter of hours go ahead joe and yes you're right the best time to use this weapon was the nineteenth of the three and that's the whole change and u.s. policy the whole of the middle east so obviously this is the first impulse of. has obviously the signature on it it's the message was meant to be alone in this message alone so official message was i have to throw the book the congressional the congressional election in november that we can change and this may be the whole . was to change his calculus on that level after the us embassy the saudi embassy in riyadh the issue of the fifth which is no we believe in yourselves your relation if this will happen this will impact so that it be as much as with the word because part of being in order to produce so as a producer you have to have as

a for the flow of otherwise people going to go somewhere and now the market this experience expanding. no longer need saudi oil europeans have more diversity so the market is changing you know they're not as much as influential and they will impose themselves more they impact the word but they are doing this good i think because they want to say that there is a reaction from them and they had one audience in mind as donald trump a colony how is that how do you see trump playing this here because like i said before when to the break i don't think he's playing it very well because you know there will be serious consequences again paraphrasing and then he within one news cycle he he backed off and he's talking about the importance of the relationship here i mean in its critics are really savaging hear him here i mean it's it's kind of theoretical do you support human rights or real estate when you when you talking intellectually like that that's fine but when you're using a specific example it doesn't come off very well i mean it in and trump is it

doesn't seem like he has a really good grip on it for maybe reasons that you mention in in the first part of the program is the saudi arabia has its tentacles everywhere in the u.s. economy and you know as bob dylan said money doesn't talk it screams and i hear oh i think a lot of money is screaming right now go ahead collen. don't drop isn't. money for him money for the country moving through. and he wants to keep. saudi arabia in the money flow so when he has the contrary to what use. senator early niece and the saudi arabia has admitted to killing jamal because. but from my. information right now all that has been reported is that they are thinking about it maybe yes yet when they're very they

it's assumed they're dave did change their position then reports say that there's an interesting patient that indeed yes that he accidently died during an interrogation keep going calling in a truck has indicated that we don't know the facts here so that's going to be his position and he's probably going to jail the n.b.a. has not to admit to killing because sharkey even though the amount of evidence in a little there's poet up to the point where it is pretty evident the what happened and you can see that by the fact that u.s. intelligence has already said they have caught. the online giving orders to undertake this capture of a charge. in the interrogation and the killing of the sharky now the turkish security has said their video in audio. either through the

apple watch because sarkozy was worried or through the bugging the turkish the saudi consulate in istanbul but they have not released that information yet so this initially led me and mr joe to think that this was a shakedown by turkey and u.s. intelligence just says b.s. last a year ago in november got over one hundred saudi princes billionaires and millionaires into the ritz carlton and shook them now and so the u.s. and turkey want to. being from saudi arabia we're going to do the same thing so it was either a shake going on of saudi arabia or winds or us foreign policy we're realizing that india's is a total failure. is right the court ice is in

syria is war in yemen is leading to the dimona is of this traditional honeypot for members of congress and for the us ruling class and so they want to get dislodged so they can put that in another war favorable royle as mr joe talked about earlier before him be as was the heir apparent you know it joe it's interesting i've been reading reports that american intelligence sources were aware of jamal's of visit and the intentions put potential intentions of the saudi government here. and that kind of backs up a little bit what colin was saying right there and because there is criticism of people that are aware of this saying that there was an interview it wasn't an intervention warning him off so again like i started this program the plot thickens because the more we learn the more we understand that there are different motives

from different people in play go ahead joe. yeah that's a big question because obviously a lot of reporting said that the u.s. intelligence was aware that there was a plot to attack at the pentagon both to kill him so why he was not informed why the washington post was looking for his rest of the new virginia he's known as a known. figure for for all you know officials involved so why he was not. warned there's some reporting saying that he was lured from here from officials here and watch the saudi officials to go it to stumble because obviously it's easy for them to to operate there. so i think that they didn't expect this or. action of the they were expecting maybe to have to hide the evidence but they mean the turks i don't believe for the applause obviously the only option is they had. they were spying on what's happening inside only with the way they were a little bit at that and showing the video maybe because there were people will

discover they were bugging the well i mean joe in general let me ask you a question i mean if they if he was lured if he was lured there and he is a resident of the united states why didn't he go to the saudi consulate in washington d.c. to get this marriage document why would he go to a place where he because he believes he could you know i mean it you know that's a third party turkey is not disinterested from what you and colin have said here i mean it looks like it was very callous unless he had another reason to go that far to get this document because apparently it's been on say was outside the consulate with his phone he didn't bring the phone in with him this is what we're learning here go ahead joe i mean you. can't just speculate we can't know really what's happening the reporting is said that he had meetings with the saudi ambassador here and he given the impression that he's welcome and he can do whatever and he needed the papers to get madder than some bull in turkey so he needed

a letter from the saudi cause the reporter goes they ask him they go there get the get the paper to be more. in line with what this official to this is want to indorse your. age these days we can just speak any it doesn't matter as also i'll just if you went to washington he went to stumble there was an intent to so basically sign the senate some way and that happens that's happened so the question is from the u.s. politics perspective is did the u.s. intelligence know you know why they didn't inform and they informed the white house of the white house and in. former. you know authorities involved in turkey or elsewhere we don't know there's a lot big of questions that are yet to be answered or maybe never if you don't know or maybe never call i mean again another one of the threats that from the house of saud is that they might realign their foreign policy or buy weapons from other

countries that is just bluster that is absolutely nonsense it would cost saudi arabia billions and billions and billions of dollars to reintegrate let's say russian or chinese technology i mean almost all of it is american british and french i mean again we're just bluster you know who's doing the p.r. over there i mean it's this it's a very i'm sorry juvenile sounding and found that i got a child stomping on the ground go ahead cohen. well it is true the mohamed bin sloman believes that with him and the leadership of saudi arabia they could be much more. in the region you know the. iran that iran gets to the with their impunity and the people in the country of iran support the government much more than they do in saudi really everybody knows

that the royal for which corrupt everybody knows that there's no justice in saudi arabia instead it's just the saudis rule for themselves and they don't care about anybody else but mom and been song and things that they hear that. moves saudi arabia into a position where he can intervene in syria in yemen in other places and then eventually i mean call it can call and he's he has been doing that with disastrous effect. results and the. you know we have to look how it's going to be presented to the american public. the people who are watching his case will go on about saudis killing someone they said oh here's a humanitarian

a freedom right here. and that is why i said that's why we ran out of time here that's why i've said two years of p.r. charm offensive seems to have gone nowhere here many thanks to my guests in washington and in bluefield and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t.c. a next time and remember. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guests of the world of politics small business i'm show business i'll see that. you know world's big partners movie lot and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that made stream media refuses to tell more than

ever we need to be smart we need to stop slamming the door on the bath shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. don't have faith in this government official of president i don't have faith in the system i sort of got it so i'm too liberal the system is not to sign for people like me who moved a lot less. difficulty for you for different reasons the loss of job loss the whole.

most people in philadelphia are only about two paychecks away from homelessness. prosecution will need to become almost. where you. just read you'll find somebody number one place you do i mean yeah i mean i mean political pressure on that i needed to know the security dimension knows when to put your hand on that business models he was my american corporations. he's sold them to mental disease has he. seen. the solution. please all the dissociation. i knew going he saw it is just somebody he's of deleting. an investigative documentary. ghost war on oxy.

breaking news on r.t. international saudi arabia claims the journalist who went missing in. the russian woman is. allegedly trying to meddle in the upcoming midterm elections through social media. and the funerals. of the twenty people killed. yesterday seven. of them on the same.