i don't know the big four order to go because well you raise the subject of the milgram syndrome you might have to explain the experiment because the violence that i have gone through because i was i have been facing somehow makes me what doctors call survivor i should not be here anymore because what i went through is somehow impossible to find when you are a single individual and namely because all the ones you trusted your colleagues your internal clients your management your company all are against you and obviously they are much more powerful because they are richer and well surrounded and they have the means to press where they can assist in age you psychology clearly so this milgram cinnamon is extremely interesting because it means that when colleagues in a company are being told by their boss to do something they're just too early

because they had to do it or many of your french journalists have said to be but why did you decide not to toss those documents why did you decide not to toss the archives and the question is why did the others do why did all the of those too. and when we come to the stakes of what whistleblowers do when it comes to tax dodging for instance because it's just again this book which is all of the press because this is a september twenty eighth dean figure way you talk about the amount of money we're talking about here which of course would have gotten the health service and lifesaving equipment and emergency services just describe what you mean with a hundred billion number one hundred. billion euros a year leave the country and it's a figure from the unions from that ministry in front finance and friends. and obviously on the one side we are being told that we suffer

a crisis that we have to reimburse the debt sturdy hardy and on the other side you have so many people. scaping. taxi is why you know the whole thing is that everyone has to understand it's it's a big lie you know we're just axing jobs then the people lose their jobs because apparently there is no money to. finance them because the administration has no money and on the other side is the people where just changing the tax jeter is the . wealthiest. clever tax. voiding companies because people would be doing that i don't know what your reaction is to the deputy prime minister of this country former deputy prime minister nick clegg becoming head of global affairs of facebook which i think the present government has been looking at for tightening tax measures because it only paid but this million pounds attacks on

mumbai to six billion what is the reaction it's exactly what i discovered this past ten years it's called connectivity it's a network of people who you know they play in their little playground and they are them and they are the citizens somehow as if they were above the lowest. the laws they imposed to all the citizens we are aware for the country this is what's incredible because i thought that france was the only country where we had wrongdoings with minister is julian assange wrote the preface in your new book and as you know arguably one of the most famous facilitators of ritual blows it how did he come directly writes about like pompei oh what does it make you feel they're reading the preface whether the book is. a journey in the road that last year not the text that you know i got yesterday morning and it's true that it's in that if you. like region two days ago well it sends me shivers because

we all see what we face it's always the culture of impunity of lies the culture of words but behind words they are only read only group of people who somehow play against the citizens with this passage t. of information of secrecy we see it in the government we're just talking about my pompei on the american mystery should that we suffered the same you know in france and everywhere in europe we know that what we're saying is is right we know i know but people in the promise to go to laboratories they know that you know some medication are really bad for people as health so now that we know what do we do and the one of the solutions is to stand together and to be. united. because this is not what is supposed to be seven zero zero thank you thank you for your invitation. well big banks involved suitable companies maybe crushing

dissent but is capitalism also crushing innovation jump and tourism a claim arms sales to saudi arabia or about jobs but a new revolutionary field doing the rounds of labor's shadow cabinet suggests a more complex picture of an entire war system that stifles originality and the socially useful the platen indorsed by. britain's greatest director ken loach is by steve sprong steve welcome to going underground the news full of people going if we stopped selling arms to saudi arabia to bomb yemen there'd be no jobs in this country your film the plan seems to cast doubt or at least gives a completely different context to that question yes well yeah i mean the film is about a story that took place in the seventy's when workers were workers jobs were threatened and they worked in the arms industry and they faced exactly that that questionnaire what do what do we do do we make comes or try to continue to make arms or do we try

to make something else and they came up with a complete alternative to make products which was socially useful which you and products which are environmentally sustainable and so what they did was they developed a whole range of products is the workers themselves all their claims in the works on the factory floor developed a hundred fifty ideas into beauty products that were feasible products that could be made using their skills and their equipment they they you know they put out a questionnaire to the workers around the factories they came in with all these ideas and the products included when the wind turbine because it's very close thing to go from what they were producing which used to bonds for military jets to shift that over to win two points is a quite simple operation you know the things they develop with things like a hybrid car which they then went on to actually build with the university department later on heat pumps which you larry days seemed to be the answer to how how do you create energy with low consumption levels and also a lot of ideas towards low cost energy efficient housing they're the main ideas

talked about in the film for example in total one hundred fifty products which broached across medical equipment as well but the main emphasis was on this idea that all the products should be socially and environmentally sustainable and move our member this is in the mid ninety's seventy's that will be. ideas which we developed as feasible possibilities instead of making up tell me how this fits into a context within your fill of people know perhaps a fascist connections to pinochet but all of them you charged with chile dictatorship in portugal neo liberalism as well as ignoring climate change in the film covers a sort of range period of history in which that was taking place and the period of history really talking about is the ended the sort of post-war consensus at the end of keynesianism and it was at that point in time historically you had the beginnings of the new liberal or the senate seat of near liberalism in this country

it certainly came to the fore when the government had to go and borrow money from the i.m.f. and were put in diversity strict conditions that they had they could you know they had to cut back on government spending there to make a lot of cuts etc cetera i mean accepted that whole notion that you're going to squeeze down the economy public spending on all those facets they literally has the results show this is proof that you're it also actually the whole process what kade to be called factories and is merely the continuation of that i mean a lot of people will talk about the fact that you had thatcherism post that truism tony blair kind of continued with the same policies but actually what is film talked about looks at is the fact that the policies were actually prefigured even in a pre labor government project. so long approaches the pros is that forty year period of neo liberalism which you know which is kind of now run its course with the two

thousand and eight crash started at precisely that time all those things basically got the film is in a sense is about the fact that all these ideas that with their very strongly at that time had to be destroyed for nearly britain to take place and we have lucas aerospace workers actually being able to see. the stifling of innovation that happens through capitalism people know today steve jobs who appears in in your film and think of them as great innovators something of a look at this was discovering the balance sheets and realizing presumed like apple workers haven't. how far these big companies these great business success stories are basically subsidized by ordinary people that was an important part of what they did as well they really talk about it in the film they talk about the fact that. not only did they did both products but they start in looking at a company they started looking at the fact and one of them at one point quotes and

he says ok they made hundred twenty five million profit over and over they paid ten thousand five hundred in tax and then the next line is grants received from the government. ten million for getting tax grants received from the government ten million three hundred s. and so pretty much the exact amount that they paid in tents is then being given back to them by the government pay no tax at all so essentially what you've got is a situation where companies that need the whole development of companies to process the development of new technologies except for a set or is funded by the government set apples' the same app a lot of all the products that apple developed and all of the framework apple works on the internet except are so funded by in that case the american government you know is all of that would join the union blocks that don't work without government spending all that all that all or all that technology development huge amounts of it is publicly funded where is the image we get is if it's these private

entrepreneurs are actually creating all these innovative ideas and they're not is actually could is being developed in public institutions in research facilities university etc and then those companies are piggybacking on to that make inverse profit from it and there's an argument who says well they're not then pain in their taxes back on their moving their taxes to offshore hafe so they get in money coming from the government they're not then paying taxes so the whole thing is you know going in one direction so what the lucas workers were about was saying ok rather than pop. that money going to make profit for private individuals and private companies if that money is coming from the public purse it should be used and we should look at how we use that money to the public interest me to me that's what the important thing is about this story to start with a very simple i did why did we make things just so she would be used for other for profit and then you start to pick the whole thing and you start to get all those

relationships between production for profit toward the end if you control resources and the environment get destroyed in the process and the film that tries to talk through the whole range of the connected this is those things through a simple story which starts with a very simple idea. thank you and you can catch the plan at the lisbon film festival dr on the twenty seventh of october after the break what you going to do when the world's on fire from knife crime to grenfell to stopping such cattle we learned about institutional u.k. prejudice from the usa all this is. going underground.

wrong. just. yet to stamp out disdain becomes to advocate and in against women because betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart. just to look for common ground.

prosecution will need to become almost. dissolved. cold where you push. the threat of fines. by the number one place you do i'm young yasmin political pressure on the bill do i need him in control to know through security jenison knows when to pull your bundled up business models he was my american corporations doubtless was incomplete please sold on could be mental disease as you need to use the controls on the scene and the solution. lies up in association with. the new can he saw as it is just simply deleting. an investigative documentary. ghost war on oxy.

welcome back to turn on the t.v. sets in the any major nation and you'll likely see condemnation of trump's usa based on identity politics tension but if we ignore the breathless near liberals maybe we can hear that the rot set in long ago and londoners just like the people of louisiana depicted in a new documentary may recognize stories of different life and death outcomes of their determined by class and color we went to the mayfair otel in london to talk to one of the stars of what you're going to do when the world's on fire judy hill to talk about where class and race interests act judy over here gentrification is a big issue poor areas boy as a community of people who are being moved out in favorable to the national companies what happened to your book well my bar was.

had a bar for three and a half years or was pretty girl and i first got to the number maybe that eight months after being in a for it was the number number fifteen best bars in wall-e. and after eight months at the party year and a half it was number eight. just before i left about five months if i left it was number i bet it's bars in new orleans. the young lady she was on but like people it's on my blank people. and. she had a problem with me because every commercial comes to the wall has their own issues that the board she wanted all of all the money in with anything you know whatever so it's always a money issue or money always when you know it is pretty sad so she had to offer. some guys came around i guy offered her you know. we'll pay you two

thousand she pain twelve hundred whatever because i had them at the spa popular but after a while that she kicked me out the door and everything come to find out the guy didn't want to be in an area she went to give it to some other people it is about money yeah but in the film you're talking about slavery to really badly and you talk about how to break a slave it's really the new slavery because kanye west was with donald trump saying the thirteenth amendment didn't go far enough your take a slightly different to that when i spoke about a break a slave that was a book i read. and that's what it was about breaking slaves have a comb like people down and. put them in have a minute or not this kind of stuff so i mean slavery slavery is no way you can sugarcoat it you can't throw not them on it but you know how the media in the

united states talks about american society how can you possibly can today as everyday life for african-americans or people of color with a time of slavery. i can compare it because i feel like it's the same way. i mean it from anson in question right it's this very same thing. no difference only when we're changing it's pretty scary for us what are. we lose to at least in the every day you know just in my neighborhood i think you might say it's not always k.k.k. skill and always that. be black on black on white is it comes from a point. from where there was never no happiness in the house when it was a baby because the mom was already worked up

a practice she raised five dollars to purchase the whole house as a price and i found the whole comeback from way back when my grandmother was young the price for x. slavery that the mentality of one of the people of as you're talking about these issues says that it was like suddenly in the one nine hundred eighty s. the drugs and guns poor in these cities and it wasn't happening when welcome wix was giving speeches about black power power is one of the themes of the film. how did it suddenly happen in the movies like that how not what happened. i don't know i really don't know but i do know that's when the drugs came in i remember when i was a teenager i would say ninety eight. hour remember that crack up epidemic that hit. it was worse and they could train for new orleans because you prichard

there was already no food in the house in here come this time what drugs and whatever you came good you left somebody in a family and i don't. we instead call it painkillers as time went on it every family i was in there. you know. we didn't need it but we we did it but when i went in and before nineteen it we never knew nothing about cracking freebase in that in our. act i don't know what could have been with that with the new black friends of the film would presumably say it's wars in central america. rocks coming from yeah because we don't have it but now it's in every family why black japanese everybody get behind them. now they look in a helpful way when they get to the white community like oh well. these people or.

they don't i don't feel they have mental problems now that it's in the white house and white person but as we brought down dope fiends the and everything and still and we are the same habits so why and how could you call me i don't fini you when you're black on black crime crime in london is reportedly. in new york murder in particular actually. but often it is just this is getting black on black crime. how easy to do you think is it for the government to dismiss murder of where that occurs in one community over another and then i mean where i'm from i can't speak for everyone because i mean that there are gangs in your i don't have games there i don't. we live in war i live in the thinks war that's seven war the war my have the

seven war beefin with war beef it mean we've got a problem. you don't come out in a six war i can come in and step in or where i'm from has nothing to do in new orleans you know no there's. there is no game room and we have one way the matter whatever there is no is not there for his kids to do with these people in wallace they depress you can't see you cry in. snow well you can go to jail you won't get a record when you twelve years old you got there are going to automatically i mean you get that quick again you get a driver's license or a good education you won't get that. you won't get a wreck of a trust. and in french our own neighborhood. mandatory will get you but

i think ups most of the time you're going to get and i'm sure it's all over you know and now that's one of the things about the pact with the panthers was talking about how the police kill in the asian children. and how their racist stuff is really really bad and the reason why i can say i have a have a never went anywhere because my mom is eighty nine and she told me that it never change in home and in every year is going to get stronger and strong enough why she has you know that is getting really really bad you know because it we read cases here of russian charles mark duggan people of color short by police in britain why do you think that is the police are acquitted because most slept most of them is white. we don't have a choice and we scared to death for our boy it's as i was just suddenly there's

nothing for one our kids to go to the store and no don't make it back home because the police felt i feel a need to draw down schumer you. know going to jail it's going on everywhere is that racist out you've got the racism a cold house you've got the races police you've got the k.k.k. instead doctors you've got the k.k.k. is all over the plates you know less than any given k.k.k. is were they that naturally evil you know. and. that's the scary thing you know and the reason why they get acquitted because like people never did of oh we don't stay in for nothing in the eyes of these people have been change your nose is just. as everywhere i don't for the life of me and it makes me want to cry sometimes because. we don't know.

we don't we are looked up we are looked up on air as animals. is this is heartbreaking you go in a place. i've been to. when this. is my first time traveling in my life fifty one years old. and my first thought is. the speed of light. so i got a put on but i don't know how to produce an m g stupidly. but i have a watch my friends are my friends not my color so i moved behind me and when i need a supposed to be in front of. a sponsor always look at myself as a queen no matter what it's a matter of who are get me around. the queen of england sports always stand on silent not under. a mistake. and i move around with these people.

and i'm like white man here was my. i want to be accepted i want i want the slam play when you walk out when i walk in the door you like a judy shipment i want i want that everywhere because i give it a pitcher that has been like me or a gay player that you like the players because it may show a little girl for the girls in. live she always if sent you can even buy a code ring when she like you and there is the style for you you found your place now you got to. make a little girl say in a little bit catch white t. shirt catch phrase standards you call your ship and she like you they like we love you but when you step outside the door it's

a possibility you want to come home. but hands on a wall he already don't like you you just gotta pray that he's not a killer. you understand which is that we're in the make up shouldn't know a. poll is really shot at poll is got to go you know it is just it's just too much we lose in our boys like i don't know i think the young girls are one that will mean twenty twenty five. bunch of young girls oh guys still is going to really believe that jill thank you. thank you judy hill speaking to me in central london that's it for the show on wednesday we talk to both sides of the border question after the e.u. said island could sink any deal on such a deal that you would not try social media only back on wednesday as you knowing me

is ten years to the day of two major wall street crash. tracking gave americans a lot of new job opportunities i needed to come up here to make some money i could make twenty five thousand dollars as a teacher or i could make fifty thousand dollars a year truck so i chose to drive truck people rush to a small town in north dakota was an unemployment rate of zero percent like gold rush is very very similar to a gold rush but this beautiful story ended with pollution and devastation a lot of people have left here i don't know too many people here anymore just slow down so much they lost their jobs got laid off the american dream is changing that's not what it used to be. and it's a tough reality to deal with. what

politicians do. they put themselves on the line to get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president or injury. or somehow want to. have to go right to be close to see what them before three of them or ten people that i'm interested in always in the waters of our. first sit.

president hawkish national security advisor john bolton. the u.s. say it's dropping a landmark nuclear arms treaty with russia. toil and trouble a spell of all a night in new york as a coven of witches perform a hexing ritual on supreme court judge brett kavanaugh the event is met with protesters condemning the black magic. in the u.k. to protest a frightening british government press is ahead with the controversial gal six.

seven year suspension. it's really doing.