well. for. all. the headlines this hour president putin and the u.s. national security adviser hold talks in mosco and americans plans to pull out of a key nuclear missile treaty threaten to trigger an arms control crisis. donald trump makes his toughest statement yet on the murder of journalist jamal khashoggi in saudi arabia call to list it was carried out pulling the cover up was one of the worst in the history of go. to savings champions league football time between a house where men c.s.k.

mosco is modifying fun violence and an escalating failure on the one metro which left tens injured. you can find all of these stories in full on our website it's all about what the headlines and in our in the meantime it's cost so. low in welcome to crossfire for all things considered i'm peter lavelle on this unique edition of cross-talk we reviewed a new and very important book john mearsheimer the great delusion liberal dreams and international realities it's a real bombshell. cross

sucking the great delusion liberal dreams and international realities i'm joined by my guest here in moscow mark slaughter he's an international affairs and security analyst we also have dmitri bobbitt he's a political analyst we spoke nick international and we have these and he is a professor at the higher school of economics as well as arthur of the decay of western civilization and resurgence of russian origin across the rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it ok glenn let me go to you first hear a really big fan of your summer's work he is a realist what does that mean. all in political theory to me to me in theory is the political realist i believe. to explain how states behave this see this essential being dependent on external situations so there's no good state or about everyone based on the international distribution of power so and this contrast with the liberal theory in which we look more at the internal characteristics of state

so whether or not there are democratic if they're if they're of economic if they're into the pendants if the humans rise to seriousness a human right. such you have these two theories which competes against each other to explain how the world works in. his liberal germany and he says it's doomed to fail mark you know this is this is in many ways maritimers magnum opus of what has now been several decades of his fear of critique of u.s. foreign policy basically since the end of the cold war and how it has emerged not only as as the hedge in modern terms of power but it has quite i would say selectively use that power to try to reshape the world in its own image rather than say the more real this notion of balancing power centers and trying to present another head to mine from a. merging regionally it has delved into in ideology of exceptionalism which which

mirrors heimer identifies as just another type of of nationalism and he also specifically addresses the way that the liberals have not only you know dominated you know the foreign policy in terms of action but the inner circle such that there is a real it's no longer even really accepted now in the discourse it's something that's taught in universities and mediately rejected in favor of you know liberalism and it's. good to see it on the other hand the neocons have exhibited this whole liberal approach to international relations is going to mention it sounds nice and that's if you have the power and how fair trading relationships but it never works out that way mearsheimer would argue that makes things even worse because these end up being wars of choice. well i think there. is very soft spoken

he stays more or less in the frame you meet him but he would be a medically correct language i mean he germany all yes well i think that what he calls government you know this is from my review of the book by the american conservative. you know. they called it a dagger pointed at the heart of america's governing feel or syfy progressive liberalism well i think that you should call a spade a spade progressive liberalism what altered liberalism as i call it now it's not even a governing philosophy in the states it's the parian ideology which determines not the only the states action by which determines education. arts sports and of course foreign policy and of course military so when for example a writes about doing other states or business in the states militaristic behavior is almost certain to end up. threatening its own liberal their use liberalism abroad

leads to illiberal is a pool and of court well it's not just the liberals you know put in people like chelsea manning in jail for life you know organizing walled white cheney's for for edward snowden this is not deliberate and this is ideology that mearsheimer is criticizing promotes for example. the war in syria and promotes the legal regime change in in ukraine in two thousand and fourteen because if you look at the liberal gemini in it's really surprising to me that you when you get into an argument you know with a counter position to the things i just mentioned they all have this defacto default position of i mean even liberal person because i'm not going to project my values i mean they can't even they're not even self aware of that ok go ahead right

now there's nothing democracy human rights these are all good things but they have to be based on power foundations otherwise this is essentially from the realist mind at least what drives international politics mark mentioned at the realists to some extent been purged out of the discipline from after the cold war and this there were systemic incentives for this of course because during the cold war it made sense to look at things through this balance of power however if you would still follow this theory after the cold war then you would have to see the west was now overwhelmingly powerful the soviet union didn't exist anymore if we didn't follow this there then logic suggest we should start to pull back and essentially dismantle nato which is what this actually people are commercial and walt walt and others have argued however then how this is to make incentives for liberals because they said no actually we create peace by expanding that of course we're promoting democracy we're promoting human rights we should actually go and topple governments around the world. cost us because they're promoting democracy so also mentioned

some nice idea and that soon if we go out to promote democracy as a form of security because democracies apparently go don't go to war with each other the not everyone benefits but at the end of the you see that it is such an elder mind and the. itself in science or in the sympathy for anyone else because they get and or look at the no one can prepare his loyal american foreign policy since the end of the cold war it is just been a trail of tears for the people that are on the receiving end of it democracies don't go to war with each other except when they do have us attack on serbia. no i don't agree that the pursuit of democracy and human rights in international relations is any way a good thing. but it might not but i think what glenn is saying i mean if that if that can be attained ok without use of violence i mean that no and i think that sure i should do so defending and promoting ideas it's the actions to promote

one mouth or something isn't that a problem first of all it's obvious selectively and hypocrisy you know the us is the biggest allies of the middle east are the powerful liberal democracies of saudi arabia qatar and bahrain and you have. the united arab emirates so the us supplies you know i their successive liberal four regimes of liberal foreign policy the us arms over seventy percent of the world's dictatorships according to us researchers and they're trying to cut russia out of the remaining twenty five percent that russia and china share amongst them so you know it's it's really a case of liberal foreign policy is an exercise in a park or see it's weaponized liberalism as as a basically a means of demonizing propaganda for my enemies and for my dictator friends well we all see the press coverage that muhammad. it's really interesting because it

really isn't p.r. travel because even if it feels like iraq afghanistan syria what's going on. it's still your intentions were good ok and that's why no one loses their job and cable t.v. in the u.s. with the first time that the lofty ideas lead to the more stable results in fact that there was two wars in the life of humanity were not for years i mean the put it when it was which destroyed europe in the early the beginning of the nineteenth century that were all formally spread to and republican values and in the lied to them and to and human use them and even weiss people like the famous german boy it even they kind of good clued into this into this trap basically i just love these this called from. impulse is deeply wired into the

liberal democracies you specially their elites and of called well this is something that a lot of muslims don't understand when the western democracies came to them with arms where polls on the war beginning from the ninety s. the initial thought the crusaders are back with their christian ideas not the crusaders but what with christian ideas with something much worse with something very very deep gauged from christianity from tradition something something you talk and something terrible demon hits on exactly which is i could get the problem with if you're still going to bother seeing liberalism it's universalism whether you're talking liberalism today christianity at one time communism at another time if for all your verse all this the earth again the crusading impulse the desire to force other people that live your a little to your savior good life to save them that is what is so. parable about

a liberal foreign policy and we have time or even says although he contradicts himself later that he prefers a liberal style of government instead of hope and hope but in the anarchic world of international politics with no world government competing power centers it is a recipe for militarism and imperialism and disaster and a loss of rights at home just to push back on the one thing mark mentioned and i think a marsh i would agree with me. is let's say that you have a you know human rights democracy but if it's found founded on power then it will be fine for example after the cold war let's say we would have created a greater europe based on what a bunch of common european home so everyone becomes part of the same club and we agree on certain machinery humanitarian standards or you know democratic freedoms will go to your well some good no. matter how we're not instead we've developed it may have been just useful you know turns over a degree so slowly and it became it became an instrument of power suspension now we

can expand and using democracy as a reason so i get very much a new civilizing mission so the new white man's burden is to go out and bring democracy to the poor of the. rest of the world and what hold that thought we're going to go to a short break and after that she will break we'll continue our discussion on john mearsheimer new book stay with r.t. . join me every thursday on the alex simon show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics or business i'm show business i'll see you then. i've been saying the numbers mean something they matter us has over one trillion dollars of debt more than ten thousand dollars fine tempting. eighty five. percent

of global wealth you long for the ultra rich eight point six percent market saw thirty percent just last year some with four hundred to five hundred three per second per second and when he rose to twenty thousand dollars. china is building a two point one billion dollar a i industrial park but don't let the numbers overwhelm. the only numbers you need remember in one one show you know for a minute the one and only. welcome

back to crossfire all things considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing john mearsheimer new book. let me go back to glenn here was getting a bit heated there and everyone's trying to grab space here to continue your point my friend well i was just going to make the point that according to this new liberal theory and a liberal ideology there's less scope for compromise because if you have if this realistic you know you can always agree that you should have a balance and you can reach a compromise but for the liberals if you think that you know spreading your empire your liberal empire will bring perpetual peace then any compromise with the other serious ascension of peace meant and so instead you have this incentive to pursue a perpetual war in order to cheat. perpetual peace and i think that's what makes

them so dangerous that you can't you can't compromise you can't negotiate the this essentially goes against the whole idea that we can actually reach this point where the world becomes this peaceful democratic utopia so. i guess that's my main but it's sort of and that's the saddest thing because compromise means evil you can't compromise with with evil with evil with with with well with certain tanks we cannot provide us with saudi arabia just not russia and china will explain that ok it's simply because saudi arabia other countries go to our border and long ago geo politically aligned themselves with us foreign policy interests it's it's not the principle that matters when you're considering whether to ally yourself with illegal countries whether you're considering saudi arabia or russia or china or you know any turkey or any number of countries it's not principle that actually determines it it's just rank hypocrisy it's a it's

a lie they tell and believe themselves really that's why you know these things. don't just because realism describes the real world and liberalism describes made up world and a made up set of conditions of human nature real ism and maritime or elaborates on this you know real ism views the world that we are all social animals that we are born into a culture a society and we naturally interact with each other liberalism views that we are all this atomized in the vigils who fink about and signs social contracts with each other and this. eroni assumptions about human nature at the fault of liberalism to be a theory for foreign policy in the world real world and that fill your two to act the real world in real human. major leads to the disastrous consequences of war

inevitable violence and tensions that arise with a liberal foreign policy. mark raised an important issue why did the united states . ally themselves with saudi arabia this is the question that a ward of russian establishment figure so well the russian elite is asking if so would you arabia can be an ally why can't we you know the answer i think is the following saudi arabia will never be a truly independent sovereign state with their elite with the kind of morals that they have made although it's not a state that's a family there will always depend in the same way the united states could allied with the mileage china in the seventy's but it cannot allow itself with more or less normal china or to be. so basically what happens is their. russian elite will have to make a choice you know they wanted to have good relations with the united states they

tried to accord with the united states for many years the whole idea was that if they want to give money if we want territory to develop all oil and gas we can do do it together why aren't you doing that well because these people don't want all your money they want to change you they want your soul they want your soul they want to change you profoundly and then that sounds you know when. you know that will sony an idea to make the wall safe for democracy there is all it is that the world is not safe first for other countries and then in the end it becomes unsafe for democracy too so when for example even some russian diplomats say we have no idea what differences with the united states or with the west know we do because the whole difference is methods george of can say that it was the most important thing about ideology methods russia does not want to change are the countries more deal in them in its own image the united states wants and here i

think gives that accident called from george w. bush exactly before the invasion of iraq how drudge bush saw iraq and liberated iraq can show poll freedom to transform that vital region by bringing hope and progress into the waves of millions america's interests and security and america's belief in liberty borscht lead in the same direction to a free and peaceful iraq and accord with isis. a lot of other things that really have a lot of on it one of those occurrences here another famous but i think flawed because a bit of francis fukuyama we still have this the last man in the end of history i mean people dismissed the book as they should but that's still kind of the g. net. code of liberalism we actually it was heralded by the liberal i know i thought it was a. little piece this is awful that's all he like legally wrong lately mission of

it's right he keeps revising it well he just made a lot of money off of that you've been trashing his own book it but what that's one point here it's messianic is that when you have a missing link view of the world you can tweak it because it's perfect it's secret it's a deity in a of itself and any doubting of it it collapsed completely go ahead kind of a beautiful theory for liberal lead to money because what it really said this last man and that history the thesis was that no all ideologies works also there was only one left i was a liberal democracy and every country if they want to meddle in the world would have to embrace it and everyone would follow on the u.s. leadership as you try to emulate its model and again this is i think it's important to point a book out because it's been the foundation of this liberal delusion which points to and i think therefore one of the main issues that emerged on looks at this is

the western relationship with russia because this is probably been the most toxic of this liberal hedge amount to be because from a realist perspective every realist even ken and especially ken and george kennan that i see they recognize that if you expand the world's largest military alliance up to russia's borders russia will be very anxious it will start to push back and when it pushes back it's a mutual security best thing is to get a settlement in place and try to recognize ok let's not cross this border let's find a mutually beneficial solution but this liberal delusion what we're seeing is well we're just promoting democracy russia it's democracy it's afraid of them are they hate our values. and so smug by allowing russia to essentially balance us this is the biggest threat to peace and we have to. defeat them that's just the logic so that liberalism is this peaceful ideology or theory it's. just it's you know this is so it is a little in her head you only if it's you couldn't you can recast it in in

a different way the united states in its imperium they are post modernist when it comes internationally lation russia is a modernist ok because they believe in borders ok the west says they believe in what values ok with you and will and then the method is the method right it's ok this is really interesting let's talk about another book that dovetails on with this just like r.b.s. loved this stephen walt who is a political ally of john mayer's i remember his book came out of the same just after where the hell of good intentions america's foreign policy elite and the client of u.s. primacy and that he has previously cooperated with john mearsheimer on a piece critiquing the corrosive influence of israeli influence in washington right now and they were pretty much exiled from the sea you know from

after that because of its reception and. if you go on you tube you can find there's a video ad from harvard's belfer center the liberal world disorder reflects on grand strategy and not so great assumptions this is why marriage simer together discussing both of the model steroids on steroids right now you have a liberal voice to challenge them there as well i strongly suggest you watch that video and we have this zinger in there from walt liberal the gemini is a full employment strategy for the us as foreign policy elite and i think it's really great he also develops the idea what you're talking about how liberalism it actually rode the foundations of what a state. it's because the liberal elite their cosmopolitan nature they don't believe in borders that you know their free flow of people of of of value spread

across the world they don't actually care for the idea of a nation they're at the end that they opposed to it and because of that that this mirrors timer analyzes in his book he focuses on this trifecta and how they interact with each other real ism liberalism and national that's you got it done the thing is there's these little liberal. hema you don't have to know anything about culture you don't have to know anything about nations you don't know you know anything about forty languages with nothing on nothing because you your values are your guiding light ok and you were absolutely right and you must defeat the heathen and convert everyone using the sword of innocence inside every black brown and yellow person and that little white liberal consumer just waiting to be freed with the good ole truth when he remarked just paraphrased you go to school with the ninety s. as a translator for

a wall street correspondent here she said that the first thing she heard from her boss us when she went to moscow she asked if she had to learn russian they said let's not make it a language club very soon all the world will be speaking english you know what we what i what i'm afraid off in this libero hegemony is one of the it is it is it's a tendency to have a monopoly and tendency to have a government intervention because this is exactly what michelle writes in his books he basically defend it he basically divides liberals seem to the so-called more. you know from the times over the ones that have nothing against and the so-called progressive liberals who say that a government action is required to promote positive rights meaning gender rights all these things that we know about so. this is what this is the way towards to terrorism when basically you have an ideological monopoly in there and you end up having monopolies in economy all these transnational companies say you know high

tech companies you have a monopoly in science which is detrimental to science and basically you have government interfering. if i can fake it you'll get out of time but everything you just said. what it ends up being in toto is in tolerance exactly what it becomes and monopoly gentlemen that's all the time we have here many thanks my guest here in moscow and thanks to our viewers for watching us here argue see you next time and remember.

definitely on the dollar as a camp they are warning goal they're building goal play to dollar rise they are looking for the dollar to trade significantly lower. prosecution will need to. be called where you put. the threat you'll find. somebody. on the. road to. business models used by american corporations. the solution. lies up in association with people. i know who can he saw as it is just simply delete him to enter an investigative

documentary. ghost war on agin. this is boom bust broadcasting around the world and covering the world of business and finance and the impact upon all of us i'm part chilton in washington and we're glad you're on board with us coming up today there is new data out from the organization for economic cooperation and development some of it troubling alex mohajir all of it just standing by to discuss and there are new consumer credit just announced today molly barrows will join us to talk it over plus a massive food recall spread kaufman's bet the farm will discuss the very latest

and his take on what it means to all of us and well cryptocurrency seem to be multiplying like rabbits how do financial regulators look at it and look at the new players around the world will be joined by new york walk professor ron schiller will tell us and later the cars coach is back to talk chrysler earnings the e.u. emissions candle and a way to avoid voicing your warranty lots on our plate let's go. we start with the markets and volatility seems to be the name of the tune in china which saw the largest one day gain in the shanghai and shan's and composite index since november of two thousand and fifteen but the progress slowed some yesterday hong kong's hang seng also rose but is now down from last week as are other asian markets including.