pressing with a fit in both of these counts is a form of scottish justice secretary kenny macaskill alex spoke to him from edinburgh kenny welcome back to the alexander i'm sure oh thank you pleasantly by this case that it's been to the court a session and there's no been saying to the luxembourg court of justice this could be a really big deal could you explain it to us. well it's almost unprecedented retired the cases that have been sent by the scottish court to luxembourg for clarification minimum unit pricing on alcohol was one and there's been other things but i write my brains i can't think of anything that wasn't restricted to the scottish jew destruction and that's something we are scotland's going to be pivotal for the whole of the new key source a fast track procedure that will clarify the law in scotland but the law in scotland will have application across the whole of the u.k. now as i understand that the six parliamentarians from the european parliament the scottish parliament and crucially the westminster in the form of join the charity the the s.n.p.

spokesperson who have taking this case on the cross party basis and that's about the eleven billeted of article fifty plane passes language it means the m.p.'s could strike out if the court finds in their favor what would be the political implications of such a judgement was handed well are huge because at the present moment we've got today to me and indeed her colleagues are left supporting are saying it's how we checkers or the highway in new deal but exit this food sure that there is an alternative which is that you could straight both of them down and you could seek to withdraw article fifty if the court agree with it so she wouldn't have our own way that it's a bad deal even washed deal with new deal opens up the whole debate for parliament and it's sort of huge significance never mind the fact that scotland doing it probably is from our perspective my perspective shattered freud and it

won't go down well with aspects of the years so should be a touch significance to the fact that the court of session of the pew it was the law president look karlovy who's the the highest judge in scotland that he was presiding with other judges who decided to send it to the european court of justice is that in itself significant. oh i think so i think the fact that he dealt with it and self-assured see the gravity that they're viewing it the fact that the center we quite speedily requesting almost a quick decision sure is that they realize the importance of it so i think that perhaps our enjoying and relishing the moment because the scottish traditionally often marginalized with regard to ukraine supreme court never mind the english courts there's no center stage saw they've made it big they're making it big and it could be even bigger of member last year the supreme court in london ruled after

all fifty at the beginning of last year how to be voted on by the parliament and that was seen as a ruling which up held parliamentary sovereignty over the government it would destroy if it came forward from the european court of justice and then the call to session saying that that could be the vest by parliament without in that self be a for the underlining of parliamentary sovereignty oh absolutely i think it would dovetail the supreme court lay down in parliament scott its rights in a protected and this would sure there was an alternative to the in the blink picture been painted by today's and me and it would empower parliament so at the present moment the supreme court to say to the parliament has a power that you keep trade ministers trying to pretend there's nothing to decide other than her options are new deal if the european court courses we hope and expect then i think parliaments and powers to be able to not just to say and did. but to actually withdraw article fifty couldn't lead to these or me has been

struggling between a backstop and some hard cases in the democratic unionist party and indeed with a little bit but this would open up potentially a whole new dimension come to zambia come january when the ultimate votes of jus to take place if m.p.'s at that stage had available to them through the courts as it were a get. to see a well we have just good to say to a sudden dr who first day until an agreement which is acceptable is on the table. oh absolutely it changes the whole dynamic of being driven down and not in a group where there's only checkers or no deal i suddenly and powers polman as was are made by this supreme court decision that means that labor and same p. not just d u p have control and influence over to these amazing government for however long it's going to be there so looking forward to temps of the parliamentary mechanics you would think that most people would be pleased about an

opening up of options but i suspect that some of the political establishment will see it that way well they will see it as new european courts intervening in westminster sovereignty they'll see it as the luxembourg court telling people what to do even if it's only to see you're allowed to do this if you want to do it. oh absolutely i think the unity and reform group will be choking on the g n t's not only is that the wash night me of the utopian court that they saw despise the love of it but it's been brought there by the jocks who the very never mind anguish votes for english laws all of a sudden scots law is actually going to be able to deliver a decision on the floor of the power palace at westminster so it has their worst nightmare it means that there's an alternative option with the not all parameters of the painted and it does change the whole game for the u.k. so if that ingredient is injected into what is already

a fraught difficult political debate it means that the outcome of the parliamentary process is even more uncertain the more options open up the pool of potential conclusions we can have to this long running saga or absolutely and it begins to leave a party on the spot over suddenly come into play not only does jeremy corben perhaps to be have to be far more and more decisive about actually taking the labor party but those recalcitrance like cullen plenty seem to think that they can vote with the tories against the better instance of their constituents whatever they voted in the referendum are also going to be put on the sport so it's no longer just the majority propped up by the dea you p.c. all of a sudden everybody has a vote the same people live a considerable influence not just because of the scottish court's decision but because of their numbers and it was all police all they have to play for in terms of whether breck's it even happens and whether we can get article fifteen percent

so we could have a situation where it's not just the daily staples of for mana and so tyrone it's not just the the a lot some bug european court of justice is the court to say edinburgh who's affectively dictating the future of britain in europe. well certainly been the trojan horse which is how i think the g. could be small to the world look the scottish court has might well have hopefully managed to deliver the opportunity to withdraw article fifty that then puts alternative options on the changes the whole nature of the bee empire is a new parliament not just theoretically as the supreme court to said that parliament should ultimately be sovereign but they're going to have a choice that is i think probably one that the majority of the people of the native kingdom not just scotland would probably go for which is let's just call a halt to things at the moment until we see just what the alternative is it's not what was painted on the raid say on the sate of our bus. two years ago we've got to

take stock and consider whether this is wise with its best and these things can't be rushed can occur school as the foremost goal is just to say to your well versed in these matters that relatively the mark of us had very little coverage in the metropolitan media in london is that just because it's a scottish issue of you think people have been walking up yet to the potential significance of this forthcoming court ruling so i think it's a lot of i think the just be ignoring scotland it as a backwater it doesn't matter everybody's been focused on northern ireland of all of a sudden i think you might wake up to discover that actually there was a route into the e.c.g. it was by the scottish courts it doesn't have to defer to the supreme court to nestle to the martyrs can be referred to the supreme court when e.c.g. has a post here and been called in by the scottish court so i think the metropolitan focus

has been to ignore scotland who cares it doesn't matter of fact it does matter and it's going to change the nature of the debate and hopefully perhaps even the situation that we're completely facing politically because just the famous football fund a little bit your list backcourt do you think is the most likely as it will be but exit or scott was qualification for the forthcoming european championships. on in scotland qualify. kind of augusta thank you very much. scotland may have added a substantial headache to the prime minister's bricks and broke leo by opening up m.p.'s options in the house of commons however she may still have something to fear from the other essential physicists in the upper chamber the house of lords joined us after the break when we'll catch up with banks that on the lords.

prosecution will need to become almost. equal where you. just read you'll find. somebody going to see do i mean yeah yeah i mean political pressure on the. security industry knows what the pundits business models used by american corporations. does it doesn't. matter what. the solution. to this is he. going he saw as it is just somebody take. an investigative documentary. ghost you'll. see.

off to seventeen years of war in afghanistan the country is stuck in a vicious circle of violence elections assassinations and reconciliation talks with the world around afghanistan changing the country be able to escape its bloody cycle. cranking gave americans a lot of job opportunities i needed to come up here to make some money i could make twenty five thousand dollars as a teacher or i could make fifty thousand dollars a year truck so i chose to drive a truck people rush to a small town in north dakota was an unemployment rate of zero percent like the gold rush is very very similar. but this beautiful story ended with pollution and

devastation a lot of people have left here i don't know too many people here and just slowed down so much they lost their jobs got laid off the american dream is changing that's not what it used to be. and it's a tough reality to deal. welcome back i school fifty may come back to haunt the prime minister in the house of commons however its original author sits in the house of lords and he is a note that it can be revoked. my last point is one that i've made before and i'm afraid i made it tedious then. but i have to again an article fifty eight invocation is not an irrevocable act withdrawing the invocation would carry no problems political or financial we would never have left the terms of our membership wouldn't have and couldn't be changed without our agreement if the government cannot negotiate a break which even remotely resembles what was promised in june twenty sixth if

hypothetically if they can't and if the red lines which mrs meyrick in september tried to sixty in the party conference speech turn out to preclude any workable solution to the irish borders if hypothetical then i believe the country should certainly be honest whether knowing what we know now they would prefer the new discussion should be withdrawn i'm not delighted to be joined by one of the most active campaign those in the house of lords on the brakes issue ludwig leave the former leader apply comely death welcome back to the alexander thanks very much indeed let's start with this court case coming up at the european court of justice in luxembourg which could produce a ruling which says that article fifty could be default unilaterally if the house of commons under the laws decide it's course that's the point that it could be done unilaterally i think there's always been

a belief that it could be done although the government's tried to prevent that being acceptable if it can be done you would electorally it becomes very relevant if the house of commons and perhaps i was a rose as well fail to support any alternative proposals for bracks it's in those circumstances we're going to find ourselves running up against a time barrier twenty ninth of march and if there's going to be a referendum as many of us would like to see on the outcome or possibly even a general election. and then there has to be a facility for delaying the article fifty until the outcome of a referendum or a general election unknown and in the from the vantage point of the house a lot of you must be said scratching your head that seems to be a commons without a majority for any proposal if there's a proposal to put to the commons well that undermines. scenarios which you yourself were part of at one time when the house of commons wanted to reform the house of

lords but couldn't get a majority for any single proposal it's a similar situation that we're heading for and it's a matter of frustration in the house of lords at this point in time that it is a wish to get on with it or whatever the outcome is let's make sure that it's a coherent to and try to avoid the cliff edge no deal scenario but things are bogged down in a quagmire i'm good to draw on your experience long experience as a parliamentarian somebody who had the case in a clash with the chair other than your and your time as a name for. the government very anxious it seems to try and prevent the common sporting up the options by the mandible motion knowing what you know about the come and speak of the house of commons john bethel do you think you'll be giving the commons a reasonable choice i think john bercow is certainly his own man he may have a set some people in the way that he has used his code was but by and large he's not captive to the establishment and therefore if there was

a motion raising in the house of commons to give a greater freedom to the house perhaps to set standing orders on one side for those purposes i can well imagine speaker bercow being amenable to that sort of way forward i was a parliamentarian surely that is the right thing to do well the right thing to do is to allow parliament to consider all the options that the best deliver the best outcome in what is an immensely serious issue now that we must not allow the rule. the regulations of the red tape and the procedures of parliament to prevent the reaching of the best outcome for the peoples of these islands. the company of just elected a new leader price if used to sit in the commons vote with us both and for members of that they become a part of the campaign to impeach the then prime minister tony blair the iraq war adams come to the leadership like of me as a member of the national assembly how do you see his prospects of lifting plied to

greater success so i don't as an outstanding parliamentarian who's here and the character in the national assembly he has a vision that runs way beyond wales and he has an inspiring quality that can boost played camry's membership and activism and i think we are opening a new chapter perhaps we might even be following the road that scotland has shown this but as i remember i think under your leadership like oh poor old the s.n.p. and they can make a name wasn't like that oh well that was a great election in one thousand nine hundred ninety if we did go to some three percent more off labor would have been the largest party and you think that in place a bill to to make it well i'm quite certain here's a capability but even more so that is the vision to do something with the job when he gets there and that he can play a role for wills as you did for scotland ludwig you know a member of one of the key committees studying blacks i know you're limited in what you can say about the evidence that you received in confidence but generally speaking i mean that evidence does that indicate that some of the the warnings that have been freely given them publicly at club are not exaggerations or do mongering

but may well come to pass of those are a no deal bracks oh very much so i mean it's the trades of committees that i'm on and we look at matters such as the transport issues such as. london is going to cope with with bricks it and the evidence in public session that to have been given has shown quite clearly that people who are at the sharp end just wants to the detail we want to get on with it. i don't want to perpetuate holding back and getting fairly straight with bono about it now the city has a lot has plenty of politics played out tenet and of course we should remember there's an anti but exit majority in the in the house a lot but generally speaking people would argue that the lords committees often go into an element of detail that sometimes they have the house of commons mess is because they're people too busy scoring political points do you think the house a lot is committed has that emphasis is oh i think there was

a lot of committees can do two things they can they have more time to look at some much as the house of commons just don't have the time to do so and they also have a degree of expertise people whose background to a certain walks of life industry commerce and all the rest that bring that to the table and enable them to ask the right question at the appropriate time so large as the the watchdog of the constitution yes and to feed the information that comes to the commons of that they can take better decisions but you still in favor of an elected house so very much so that i'm a democrat that's what glee thank you very much like. logically if that convinced you to appear however how did the crossbenches in the lords believe that the breaks into a new war will play out in the upper chamber i'll expect a large nazir on it and botanists it in the city in. delighted to have your bell examined show thank you very much and we're delighted to be on your show madama clacton to you first what we've been discussing the possibility that the luxembourg

court might rule the article fifty is revokable can be reversed if that were to happen in late november would that be something you think the host of lords would treat very seriously as an option i definitely do because i think that the house of lords even when the bill came to the house of lords after the house of commons made the current changes that we have and a lot of the excuses given by the government were that look according to the treaty article fifty now we are bound to come out in march twenty nineteen and so therefore i think if the court decides then obviously they'll be a new debate in the house of lords and i think also a nation wide would you say that you think the interventions of the house of lords passing many amendments to the brakes that legislation what influential in widening

the scope of the debate i'm not quite sure how what the difference was in terms of i think it's part of thousand more. amendments different in terms of the scrutiny provided by the house of commons and the house of lords you can see the breath of knowledge and thinking and dedication to having a proper thorough discussion and meaningful. outcome for what is been a constitutional and public mess in the house of lords you. of a very different kind of mentality obviously there are three whips of which are very strong conservative labor and liberal democrats but the crossbenchers and the independence the core as they wish and a lot are mad i suspect some of them were. going up to the un saying well damaged we could appreciate your support and most crucial amendment coming up in the house

of commons they come with the whip and they say you have to vote in the house of lords that beg said please can you stay behind could you please supporters on this particular so i think the whole thing changes in the house of lords and people when they have their own conscience and beliefs and if they've been lobbied they tend to we tend to certainly vote with conscience and of course i vote in the labor party because i was part of the labor party liberals also ask me. maybe independents or other crossbenchers who have amendments and we support them too but you don't have the same pressure that's the point i'm making that you don't have the same pressure because you would have known many colleagues in the labor party or conservatives who would not even know what the amendment is but did know that they've got to vote yes or no in the lobby is what wigley i want to be slightly earlier made the point that this analogy between reform of the lords and bracks it

if you remember reform of the lords had so many options but not a single one of them could carry a majority though we have a break so where it is possible there is no majority for any of the options even if they were to arrive at what could you see in the summer well we may sat guru act as qantas would say and a big big mess that is and now the translation i don't know i think that there is no simple solutions either for brics it now given what we've done or the house of lords reform although i wait for the day that it is an all elect. that house if and weren't you were to look at the crystal ball for the other part of the steer or perhaps what happened yes or no by necessity no law dammit. i think if treason make at it hell way she's trying to do that but i think there are a lot of difficulties so far so specially this court decision especially when there

are people in both houses who are saying now by january if she doesn't get this deal already the europeans are threat in that they can extend one here on with the irish border situation but not more a lot of you have lived up to your reputation of never again one work for several eloquence and this is a good actor i don't have a crystal ball but what i do have for you both isn't it simon quick so this is the first time you've been interviewed in the studio because you passed by the city perfect quick as you both know is a very long scarlet for loving cup traditionally a scotch whisky but i haven't brew it's an excellent trick under scottish and the quick of a comedy it brew the handle of the orange juice persevere this stain i love my own room only it is not having a wild goose axel last ago oh your friendly scrape and the up again oh no we have it thank you so much very much thank you. over the last few months the government

have been keen to set the terms of the bricks at the base final stages at least in parliamentary terms they hope to be able to claim commons assent for the promised meaningful vote on an other mandible take note motion standing in the way as the still formidable presence of the speaker of the commons john bafta under fire but reportedly determined to low the commons a proper choice of amendments and then there is the upper house if the commons were to pass a but exit plan by a big majority it is unlikely that the laws would be a decisive spoke in the prime minister's we'll have a police i'm a would settle for the majority one right no and the noble lords might still of a hand to play. finally there is just the possibility that a lot some court ruling on article fifty might be the straw that breaks the camel's back faced of mounting problems and uncertainty with time running out it is

possible that m.p.'s might if they're able to vote in that direction stop the clock and blacks while the elo the people to decide in a general election on a father referendum and has said that the last possible date for a meaningful commons vote is the week beginning the thirteenth of january twenty ninth. the romans were told to wear the ides of march for two lisa may the ides of january may be every bit as dangerous. so from this meet on myself and although. it's goodbye for now i.

run. the flow the best out of the jewels with. the high says it's a pain to perform i had actually passed myself to. you i know said he did what he was sorry trust me. as most of. the snow and homo stuff tariana her clown. this country was. good so don't see. so we'll see him getting. what. was it he could with us he was just not yes get more here i did make sure that a story teller picked education a couple so kind of toilet b.s. k. i hear ya.

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like the awful good lottery winner that blows it all here we are twenty eight having kind of blown. up headlines here on r t international donald trump is slammed for the media to end hostility off of the c.n.n. headquarters as well as a number of prominent us democrat politicians receive pocket use containing crude explosive devices they just send a bomb to c.n.n. and the president doesn't say a word about that and then tells us we are to blame. for the giant monsanto faces accusations of aggressive.