hello and welcome to worlds apart seventy years into the war in afghanistan the country seems first stop in the repetitive cycle of violence and elections assassinations and free conciliation talks can the changing world around afghanistan finally get all of these people an extremely bloody track well to discuss that i'm now joined by ahmad wali masood a former afghan diplomat and president of the knesset foundation mr masood it's good to talk to you this evening thank you very much for your time. thank you thank you now whenever i look at the afghan politics i'm always overcome by the feeling of deja vu you have the same scenario playing out over and over again the with some

whole promise of peace on the eve of the elections crushed by the absolute hopelessness and despair after wards is that your perception as well and if so what explains this compulsive dysfunction well as you said rightly that for the past seventeen years the people of afghanistan have been looking for peace but so far after seventeen years despite efforts often tanisha community despite their aim to bring peace despite their promise to the afghan people to bring peace unfortunately have not been a boat bring peace under the contrary you can see that in afghanistan that terrorism and the taliban have come out and i believe their reason for the failure at the throne the beginning we did not have a comprehensive road map for peace and i want to start and yet despite a. all this insecurity over

a four million afghans who went to the polls over the weekend to lag their parliament tyrants which if accurate is a very high turnout for a country where voting is associated with such a high life race given the scale of this year's election violence almost eighty people killed around five hundred wounded do you think it was worthwhile well as you said played into this by i mean after seventeen years we still do not have a proper election we do not maintain security for the people but of course we do appreciate did that massive coming of the people to the police station that is being appreciated despite all the threats people came out to determine their own future their own decision but it to save time do what they find to talk about that yes we want to come to go to democracy but unfortunately under porter goss did election commission that was catastrophic on the part of the governor because i

thought of something that was catastrophic but unfortunately as i mentioned before that so far for the past seventeen years we have not followed the national agenda and that's not a road map what i'm focused on that is why you can see that i was actually up to seventy has wrapped up all by your bias now speaking about the elections i'm going to stuns the international partners still insist on holding them almost religiously despite numerous instances of fraud violence intimidation about a third of raja station sanders failed to open during the last parliamentary vote how we reached a point where the democratic rachael's are more important than the free uninformed choice that they are supposed to facilitate what i believe does of course democracy in afghanistan is an issue essential it does not mean that democracy does not work in afghanistan what it means is that they government of afghanistan especially dillies are shipped off to countries did not believe did. you're not willing to

really go to dutch sort of democratic process here the others as you mentioned before that government which have come out of the throat and itself of course that has got them sewn conned into pendent commission. and so therefore that is the government doesn't want to stop what you are making hundreds of underwrote of democracy does not the people of afghanistan be brought up on us and how fans like you shown that they can come out despite all the threats they can't get out and they want to vote well my question is not really about whether a democracy is suitable for afghanistan who am i to even ask god i'm asking whether it actually leaves ob the procedures the electoral procedures that you guys have actually leave opt to the standard definition of democratic procedures and it's interesting that the foreign policy magazine just the other day reported that in there and she said patient else nasa fraud was turned diplomats have changed their language and instead of calling for free and fair elections then i was talking

about elections whose results are quote unquote acceptable to afghans you are an afghan you come from a very respected family what is acceptable to you whether they accept it as well as we all wish to say that are free fair and democratic election for afghanistan and independent commission to carry out and manage the election in afghanistan i government which is what i read it organized it but action for afghanistan the whole procedure as you state the right to the whole procedure for election has gone wrong people enough want to start with people who voted people who feel that they are successful in the election people who feel that they have not been successful all of the decision boys are saying that this election was another good election and therefore these are not the sort of legitimate part of it and i want to something that is a problem now you seem to lay the blame squarely at the feet of the afghan government but the. i wonder if its international partners are also at least partly

to blame because the western approach to afghanistan in particular the american approach to afghanistan has been there a little bit contradictory because on the one hand washington supports democratic governance if publicly indorse is elections but on the other hand. it embraces strongman for the sake of security and i wonder if you can really have bull's democracy and this oversized reliance on the warlords in another part of sun as i mentioned before that democracy does work in afghanistan whether this war or the other side it does work in afghanistan my job to go after people of france and be able to go to the path of democracy i support of the militia community is constant of course they do want to see it said sex and sex and i want to sign these some hostile or almost seventeen years of involvement in afghanistan they are somehow getting exhausted why in afghanistan yeah democracy do not decide to come in and

pop up on a sunday stipulated we're not going to do a kind of exhausted but we all know god does not decide to fold up to ask people what is happening that chooses their own leadership their own system of governance and i find a son is somebody just off i want to stop who will somehow. derailed the pros soft democrats in afghanistan that is why the international community they want to just do stuff to see that some sort of election can take but is not want to so they can come out of this afghan problem as such but when you come back when you see inside afghanistan the people often said they were determined to go to the part of democracy only faction which are resisting democracy that's not a set that is to talk about terrorism let me again focus on these approach security approach of focusing on on the strongman because one of such strongman general abdul razak was assassinated just this past week in an attack which called. into

question the security of the entire southern afghanistan and i understand the western countries may be relying on these strongman as i as i put it out of necessity it's an ugly necessity you need to provide some basic security but don't you think that this whole approach comes with its own security risk because from what i understand now the future of khandahar maybe the entire afghanistan is now up in the air yes of course the roads have been very important yes assignation off . the killing off the road was a cop important and for the past seven kids we have you seen that some very important prominent commanders and i got on t.v. but as you could talk afghanistan i guess the top one dead being assassinated one by one that has been a change officer nation off killing for the past seventeen years to save time it does not been done that would break the weight off the afghan people down here. unfortunately what is happening with this pattern officer nation one by one of

course that's weakening he had enough on a sunday speaking to all good to go to the book to people to go to doing cleve made that they are somehow sidelining to so-called warlords but the story is that this is not the wardog this is afghanistan as in the say this stage of the war so you can you must have the people who go to this terrorism here and have been resisting terrorism for the past years and years unfortunately they govern tough one is that have not been able to really carry that sort of is to do to bring all of them together under one umbrella or so-called national resistance here that is what prisons have been imported and last is being missed in afghanistan while with all due respect mr mustard i would not downplay the role of a strong man in the afghan politics for example the slain general. is believed to be to have been pretty instrumental both for the election president of former. it's karzai added to the election of the current president of god he do

you think he's elimination will change the nature all for the layout of the afghan politics in any way especially on the eve of the presidential elections that are set to take place next step april what of course it has already affected the lection up on a sunday time to what have been postponed for one week that has already affected afghanistan but be the point if it comes under security decide like as has been lost general doesn't of course is he couldn't deal with the south don't focus on at this war broke stuff up on a site that has been threatened by the taliban and by tourism there's no doubt about such things but what is the political impact of general resits getting this concept of course that has affected their part of education but in the long term of course plotted to kill a side effect would be countered by the us part of the security is constant so long as this situation have not been established so long does people not to stop this

decision instead so we always mr know it was a kind of satisfy skewed just from some now as since i already mentioned the names of both the current and the former presidents i think both of them represent a trend that's been also observed in some other countries where they have an american presence that is when. a prominent national figures who've made a career in the west come back to the country or are brought back to the country to implement some sort of positive democratic change i know that you've been a fairly critical of that phenomenon what's wrong with it what he said during their . time when did soviet union was here or what happened who really pushed waited is so obvious who got inside afghanistan to bring m to soft as a top force inside afghanistan that was delayed or should i ask a leadership what persuaded him to come to afghanistan that is why for the ninety years a deal what inside afghanistan that was catastrophic us was was going to suck exactly . the same way they are sometimes going to have become what bush created and that

becomes a president that temptation a community interest enough on a son with doing that they can represent the interest of the american left on a sub but when we see the past seventeen years they have not produced they have not deliver there with which is wrong so that is why we didn't get this passed and must change now both president gandhi and president karzai before seemed used to have three d. a good relationship with the washington at the beginning of that terms which seems to have changed by the ad of the times what do you think explains this change of heart on the part of the afghan leadership and why is it so consistent starting on a high note and adding on an old on a low notes but that americans what i do believe deaf to lead issue was not able to deliver on one side by their own dad as they claimed the situation in afghanistan is different did think that probably had international community they are not they were not helping them as much as they think that day expected to help so that is

why the relation deteriorated but i do believe that media got this report off did afghan leadership the afghan leadership. really came into some sort of conscience is what that's going to people i do believe that we could have served our national interests better with wind and interaction with the international community i do believe that that we could have a flight that many catastrophe and has for the past seventeen years but of course you've done it does not happen but let me say one more thing about what is it an issue that can be described as vicious on a specific countries off or didn't have their own interest or who didn't have their own it is so as you can press but what is in our book all we need really kind of giving us sort of definition of our own interest to coincide to good together with interest when the interest of that is you can we talk about sort of so far as far as we know they're not going to lead this ship out not be but that does sort of interest doesn't. definition to really convinced into michigan media that we do

have in our poll on pork our own national interest well mr mustard we have to take a short break now but we will be back in just a few moments stay tuned. with more make this manufactured sentenced to public will. when the room in closest protect themselves. with the famous go around listen we don't want. to ignore middle of the room sit.

room. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy. let it be an arms race is off and spearing dramatic development only going to exist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical time to sit down and talk. welcome back to worlds apart because muscle with former afghan diplomat and president of day a message foundation mr mr just before the break we started talking about the numerous afghan governments and their ability. inability to deliver on their

promises and the united states back in two thousand and fourteen was very have only involved in called linked together the current unity or some would say disunity government which was fairly unpopular as far as i understand among the people but still how together do you think putting together and not a unity government with be a good idea come two thousand and nineteen i do believe that in afghanistan what was needed was a unity government of course the national unity government of afghanistan if it was agreed on what was needed on the situation side going to set off on a sunday whatever worked what is about we do have and do you need to go to sort of contract agreement between the two parties which came together made to coalition and then if you need to go to but so forth that thought that was not implemented that is why we can see differently or so called the unity government i do believe that enough what is sunday unity going to have not been for want it has not been

formed. i don't talk to you need to go to how it's not been implemented for example what was there it was said within two years or the first two years on the unity government debt should have been a really good guy to change a system of afghanistan the political system the structure of a president did not happen so therefore in many parse this is going to have a field that was not able to really establish the troops and formidable a unity government well that the unity government of the united states helped put together was also very demonstrative least sidelined when the united states under donald decided to engage in direct talks with the taliban do you think that it was a good decision especially in the high and side of this latest attack in khandahar that was claimed by the taliban and that killed not only the general who went to mention but also wounded a high profile american commander i do believe that when we talked. but the peace

in afghanistan to peace have to come from within afghanistan of course our friends and the national committee today can help a peace process in afghanistan but what is far more important upright is enough on its own if the peace have to come from within afghanistan with the kind of says this off the afghan people fired up but when we want to make peace with the taliban course we need to have to give a clear agenda of peace with who would they need to be off talked about enough on to something of course that was the old resistance forces what do you need to focus on you're not part of the peace process this is the woman of what is somewhat big more than half of the population of the us are not part of the process this is the civil society if i want to talk which divide is completely different from what i want to talk about doing this is not part of the process so therefore if these detainees are not taken into account so of course that's not peace and i want to see but it decision time we do foresaw that then it should give me to read to push for peace in afghanistan we do i. didn't go and say that we want to talk with the

top about it but the brighter the air position of the peace process must lie with it afghan people mr president no that's your late brother ahmed shah masood a resistance hero from many afghans during the soviet intervention and than during the taliban advance also engaged in talks with a and i mean he did talk to some taliban cannot commanders he wanted that moment to be part of the political process but that never materialized because the taliban never shared he's vision of what the political process entails and he's a vision of what afghanistan is supposed to be what can you discuss with an adversary who was the very opposite of what you are striving for i do believe that yes absolutely you are right that by late brother my so tried even he took the risk of his right to go to one of the problems select the leadership of the i don't want it to discuss peace but when he came out he said well this is not the taliban. not

seeking for peace but even today softer almost since his day for the past eighteen the as yet have been some sort of a different what is genuine or political attend but there have been some sort of attempt to bring peace enough on a sunday that has not and he's out and duties and is that vetting first day government office and did not have a national roadmap for peace the second that talked about to be the issue did not have a united leadership so therefore you did not do exact to talk to the turn off course why pakistan was behind them they wanted the beholder to talk about it so therefore it does sort of complicate the now when we talk about the peace there are many countries were trying to bring peace and i want to son so fought the people of afghanistan is still have not saved their own work was sort of peace we want and afghanistan what it tried to say is that almost every entity they are trying to interpret peace off of want to send based on their own interest but so far out at

the moment for the past seventy years the end just off the afghan people have been lost it's not dead because the people of afghanistan on the other involved that you mentioned pakistan and i know that your brother attributed the strength of the taliban at the time to pakistanis interference pakistan now has a new leader in iran how and i know that you found he's rhetoric on the relationship between afghanistan and pakistan quite encouraging has it moved beyond wars though. dissenting leadership of course the f b i he has been saying that he is for the peace in afghanistan he say that despair for the match for the interest of both countries but so far i was today when i talked to some people from the peace council took the trouble to pakistan they were supposed to meet with some political parties who are the minister of taguba but this said that when we talked with him all of this sort of blood all of the plot and all what was seized from pakistan that was not there anymore so i'm fortunate enough. but aside that peace

cannot come away and i sort of fashion that we are for and so far we do not see any signs yet that you speak very passionately both here and during your previous interviews against the afghan version all five dentity politics i know you tweeted the other day that it's time to switch from the question of who. is bush doing etc to the question of what some sort of call an agenda for all ethnicities for all clans that make up your country that's easier said than down though especially when the country so fragmented how would you do that well so far for the purpose of india. who was that duckworth put up on a sun did talk first we have to bring somebody here to go pick up on his son so he can be the president and we can conduct our business through him it did not work then be brought somebody and both dead genius off on his side and then after that i stopped by the what the past five years we can see the catastrophe what's happening

here but now decide who does not work who which party which it misses the these does not work in afghanistan all how failed we have to really go for what to say about what is and what can unify us want to start what can bring out what isn't together to save the country from disgrace is that is the key but so far for the past seventy is international community have not invested on what other time do you have invested or what this is the what their son whether he is close to us or not competent to have failed now speaking about international communities investments in afghanistan you're leading a charitable foundation so let me ask you specifically about foreign aid to afghanistan a few years ago the world bank reported that only thirty eight sounds of every a dollar spent in afghanistan actually reaches the economy much of it goes back to donor countries in the form of huge consultancy fees. construction profits what

have you ease eight a blessing or a curse for your country whether that is your money which becomes a demo cars and then goes back to spend on something which is not inefficient i suggest corruption that's a crime and much of a dead body which had been. donated or if you've been given and didn't know if i want to sign have been inside to going to set up if i want to start all outside that has gone completely i would be but i hope i don't have not benefited from doubt what does is an obvious fact that is why we see that russia as soul outstanding i just want to go to this office has gone sun as well as i was one of those who came and do it involved with some sort of corruption would be going to have consent to take their money back to one of some well mr ms so that i think it's very easy to blame corruption on the afghan government in fact everybody's

doing that but i'm specifically asking about the role of the international community and international donors because when you can make such a handsome caught on providing consultancy or unnecessary infrastructure to afghanistan the you may develop. a strong material interest in keeping it as unstable how substantial do you think special interests financial special interests in keeping afghanistan so reliant on foreign aid whether that's exactly. the sort of a good feeling that it consulting fee or some other advisers who came to afghanistan and do what they were in fact it would be going to puff up on a sunday to have money and some of that money got up on to something that has been decades for the president he said i've got a son and i do believe dad. decided to get the order to people if i was and have not benefited from that situation that is why i have to. seventy as we can see

dad did pull over to live as good as going up and many of us guns were company no under poverty does it all reduce a few people with water. inside to go to all the time and buys us who can far outside the concept that they have benefit from doubt trent well if i'm not mistaken the poverty levels in afghanistan have once again exceeded fifty percent of the population now this lack of statesmanship that the a mansion to iran seeking behavior among the countries elites how long been recognized as a problem and on the eve of every election they are candidates plotting to put an end to that what are the chances of the change actually happening comedy of presidential elections next april i do believe this election day but we did a show and it was a good examination of their failure to hop off to go to puff up on a sunday but it descend go to base management of the commission. and depend upon it

going to show up on a sunday i do believe that from now on people will decide i don't think if that sort of bottom will work in the presidential election in six months time i do believe that many but addition and ordered people off on sunday would pressurize they go to me as well as deal what they quizzed into michigan we need to change the pattern because if despised and was deceived sort of system as implemented then the position election and six months time with a catastrophe in afghanistan but that he believed that this is not going to add to the politician even more to say that well i'm here to morrow they can make a deal and they can go it to go to or they can be tied just why would i post i do this is their faith of the people on what is on his son a double with dr five years of difficulties government i come to a stage where we make it or break it that is not because that's not good but addition i decided to go to sweden that this is the fate of the afghan people long well mr mrs may have to leave it there but i really have. you're being with us

today thank you very much thank you thank you i'm yours to keep this conversation going in our social media pages and hope to see you again same place same time here on worlds apart. running out of the flow for the best out of the children of. the concepts those paying to perform i actually prepare myself to die.

sorry trust me. as most of. you. in the home will stop her clown. squinty was. if he had the goods. so we'll see him getting. what. was that he could with. yes get more depletion. tied to finishing the. job. join me every thursday on the alex i'm unsure when i'll be speaking to get a feel of the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then .

after world war two we ruled the world we have the most gold we have the sound this current say we have low interest rates and we were american century ready to go and like the awful good lottery winner that blows it all here we are twenty eighteen having kind of blown. a series of bomb threats against top political and media figures continues for a second day in the us since president trump on the american media augie over who's to blame for the state of disarray. a very big part of the anger we see today in our society is cools by the pope risky phone and in accurate reporting of the mainstream media that i referred to is fake news. refuse.