the prime minister may not have been as complacent about the court of session ruling i ship peered in the commons a mere three days later the government lodged a last minute appeal to try and stop that a final to the european court of justice the government clean confidence that is of the view of many political and legal observers one person with a foot in both of these counts is a form of scottish justice secretary kenny macaskill alex spoke to him from edinburgh kelly welcome back to the alexander i'm sure her oh thank you pleasure to my bike but this case that has been to the court a session i was no be the same to the luxembourg court of justice this could be a really big deal could you explain it to us. well it's almost unprecedented retired to teach says it had been sent by the scottish court to luxembourg for clarification minimum unit pricing on alcohol was one and there's been other things but i write my brains i can't think of anything that wasn't restricted to the scottish to distraction and it's something we are scotland's going to be pivotal

for the whole of the new key source a fast track procedure that will clarify the law in scotland but the law in scotland will have application across the whole of the u.k. now as i understand that the six parliamentarian some the european parliament the scottish parliament and crucially the westminster in the form of join a charity the the s.n.p. spokesperson who have taking this case on a cross party basis and that's about the eleven billeted of article fifty plain person's language that means the m.p.'s could strike out if the court finds in their favor what would be the political implications if such a judgement was handed well or huge because at the present moment we've got today to me and indeed her colleagues that are left supporting are saying it's how we checkers or the highway in new deal but exit this food sure that there is an alternative which is that you could straight both of them down and you could seek to withdraw article fifty if the court agree with it so she wouldn't have our own

way that it's a bad deal on an even washed deal with new deal opens up the whole debate for parliament and it's sort of huge significance never mind the fact that scotland doing it probably is from our perspective my perspective shagun freud it won't go down well with aspects of tears so should be a touch significance to the fact that the court of session of the pew it was the lord president the lord karlovy who's the the highest judge in scotland that he was presiding with other judges who decided to send it to the european court of justice is that in itself significant. oh i think so i think the fact that he dealt with them selves sure. the gravity that they're viewing it the fact that the center we quite speedily requesting almost a quick decision sure is that they realize the importance of it so i think that

perhaps our enjoying in relishing the moment because the scottish traditionally often marginalized with regard to ukraine supreme court never mind the english courts there's no center stage saw they've made it big they're making it big and it could be even bigger member last year the supreme court in london ruled after all fifty at the beginning of last year how to be voted on by the parliament and that was seen as a ruling which up held parliamentary sovereignty over the government it would destroy if it came forward from the european court of justice and then the call to session saying that that could be the vest by parliament without in that self be a father underlining of parliamentary sovereignty oh absolutely i think it would dovetail the supreme court lay down parliament's got its rights in a protected and this made sure that there was an alternative to the in the blink picture been painted by today's and me and it would empower parliament so at the present moment the supreme court to say to the parliament has

a power that you keep trade ministers trying to pretend there's nothing to decide other than her options are new deal if the european court causes me i hope and expect then i think parliaments and powers to be able to not just to say i did. but to actually withdraw article fifty couldn't lead to these or me has been struggling between a backstop and some hard cases and the democratic unionist party and indeed with a lot of good abbott but this would open up potentially a whole new dimension come to zambo come january when the ultimate votes of jew to take place if m.p.'s at that stage had available to them through the courts as it were a get. to see a well we have just good to say to a sudden dr who first day until an agreement which is acceptable is on the table. oh absolutely it changes the whole dynamic of being driven down and not in a group where there's only checkers or no deal i suddenly and powers polman as

words are made by the supreme court decision that means that labor as same p. not just d u p have control and influence over to these and these government for however long it's going to be there so looking forward in terms of the parliamentary mechanics you would think that most people would be pleased about an opening up of options but i suspect that some of the political establishment will see it that way well they will see it as new european courts intervening in the westminster sovereignty they'll see it as the luxembourg court telling people what to do even if it's only to see you're allowed to do this if you want to do it. oh absolutely i think the unity and reform group will be choking on the g n t's not only is that the me of the utopian court that they saw despise the love of it but it's been brought there by the jocks who the very never mind anguish votes for

english laws all of a sudden scots law is actually going to be able to deliver a decision on the floor of the power palace at westminster so it has their worst nightmare it means that there's an alternative option with the narrow parameters that they've painted and it does change the whole game for the u.k. so if the ingredient is injected into what is already a fraught difficult political debate it means that the outcome of the parliamentary process is even more uncertain the more options open up the pool of potential conclusions we can have to this long running saga or absolutely and it begins to the labor party on the spot all of a sudden they come into play not only does jeremy corben perhaps to be have to be firemen more decisive about actually taking the labor party but those recalcitrance like cullen flinty seem to think that they can vote with the tories against the better than stance of their constituents whatever they voted in the referendum are

also going to be put on the sport so it's no longer just the tory majority propped up by the dea you p.c. all of a sudden everybody has a vote the same people have a considerable influence not just because of the scottish court's decision but because of their numbers and it was all open its all there to play for in terms of whether breaks it even happens and whether we can get out to go fifty percent so we could have a situation where there's not just the daily staples of for mana and so tyrol it's not just the the a lot some bug european court of justice is the court to say edinburgh who's affectively dictating the future of britain in europe. well certainly been the trojan horse which is how i think the g. could be small to the world of the scottish court has might well have hopefully managed to deliver the opportunity to withdraw article fifty that then puts alternative options so the changes the whole nature of the b. impose a new parliament not just theoretically as the supreme court to said that parliament

should ultimately be sovereign but they're going to have a choice that is i think probably one that the majority of the people of the native kingdom not just scotland would probably go for which is let's just call a halt to things at the moment until we see just what the alternative is it's not what was painted on the red say on the sate of our bus. two years ago we've got to take stock and consider whether this is wise whether it's best and these things can't be rushed can occur school as the foremost goal is just to say to your well versed in these matters that relatively this much of us had very little coverage in the metropolitan media in london is that just because it's a scottish issue or do you think people have been walking up as yet to the potential significance of this forthcoming court ruling so i think it's a lot of i think the just been ignoring scotland it as a backwater it doesn't matter everybody's been focused the northern ireland of all

of a sudden i think you might wake up to discover that actually there was a route into the c.g. it was by the scottish courts it doesn't have to defer to the supreme court and this ultimately matters could be referred to the supreme court when e.c.g. has a post here and been called in by the scottish court so i think the metropolitan focus has been to ignore scotland who cares it doesn't matter of fact it does matter and it's going to change the nature of the debate and hopefully perhaps even the situation that we're completing politically because just the famous football fun a little pick your list backcourt you think is the most likely as it will be but exit or scott was qualification for the forthcoming european championships. on in scotland will qualify because it won't happen again of augusta thank you very much thank you. scotland may have added a substantial headache to the prime minister's bricks and broke leo by opening up

m.p.'s options in the house of commons however she may still have something to fear from the other center for assistance in the upper chamber the house of lords joined us after the break when we'll catch up with banks that are on the lords. financial survival guide stacey let's learn how to fill out let's say i'm not sure i get your. grease thanks for the fight. thank you for. the story that's right well if the debt slavery. prosecution will need to become almost. equal where you.

just read you'll find. somebody going to see do i mean young yeah i mean political pressure on the. security industry knows what the punditry bundled up business models used by american corporations. to see ten. percent of. the dissociation. as it is just simply take. an investigative documentary. ghost more. i've been saying the numbers mean something they matter the us is over twenty trillion dollars in debt more than ten like collar crimes happen each day. eighty

five percent of global wealth you long for the ultra rich eight point six percent market saw a thirty percent rise last year some with four hundred to five hundred trades per second per second to him to join rose to twenty thousand dollars. china's building two point one billion dollars a i industrial park but don't let the numbers overwhelm. the only numbers you need to remember in one q one does not show you can't afford to miss the one and only. welcome back. fifty may come back to haunt the prime minister in the house of commons however its original author sits in the house of lords and he is a no dyed that it can be revoked. my last point is one that i've made before and i'm afraid i made it tedious then. but i have to again an article fifty eight

invocation is not an irrevocable act withdrawing the invocation would carry no problems political or financial we would never have left the terms of our membership wouldn't have and couldn't be changed without our agreement if the government cannot negotiate a break which even remotely resembles what was promised in june twenty sixth if hypothetically if they can't and if the red lines which mrs meyrick in september tried to sixty in the party conference speech turn out to preclude any workable solution to the irish borders if hypothetical then i believe the country should certainly be honest whether knowing what we know now they would prefer the new discussion should be withdrawn i'm not delighted to be joined by one of the most active campaign those in the house of lords on the brakes issue ludwig leave the former leader apply comely death welcome back to the alexander thanks very much

indeed let's start with this court case coming up at the european court of justice in luxembourg which could produce a ruling which says that article fifty could be default unilaterally if the house of commons and the lords decide its course that's the point that it could be done unilaterally i think there's always been a belief that it could be done although the government's tried to prevent that being acceptable if it can be done unilaterally it becomes very relevant if the house of commons and perhaps i was a rose as well fail to support any alternative proposals for bracks it in those circumstances we're going to find ourselves running up against a time barrier twenty ninth of march and if there's going to be a referendum as many of us would like to see on the outcome or possibly even a general election. then there has to be a facility for delaying the article fifty until the outcome of a referendum or a general election unknown and in the from the vantage point of the house

a lot of you must be said scratching your head that seems to be a commons without a majority for any proposal if there's a proposal to put to the call well that undermines. scenarios which you yourself are a part of at one time when the house of commons wanted to reform the house of lords but couldn't get a majority for any single proposal it's a similar situation that we're heading for and it's a matter of frustration in the house of lords at this point in time that it is a wish to get on with it or whatever the outcome is let's make sure that is a coherent to and try to avoid the cliff edge no deal scenario but things are bogged down in a quagmire i'm good to draw on your experience long experience as a parliamentarian somebody who had the case in a clash with the chair there was a name. the government very anxious it seems to try and prevent the common sporting up the options by the mandible motion knowing what you know about the

couldn't speak of the house of commons john bethel do you think you'll be giving the commons a reasonable choice i think john bercow is certainly his own man he may have a set some people in the way that he has used his code was but by and large is not captive to the establishment and therefore if there was a motion raising in the house of commons to give a greater freedom to the house perhaps to set standing orders on one side for those purposes i can well imagine speaker bercow being amenable to that sort of way forward i was a parliamentarian surely that is the right thing to do well the right thing to do is to allow parliament to consider all the options that the best deliver the best outcome in what is an immensely serious issue now that we must not allow the rules . the regulations of the red tape and the procedures of parliament to prevent the reaching of the best outcome for the peoples of these islands. the company of just

elected a new leader price if used to sit in the commons but with us both and for members of that to become a part of the campaign to impeach the then prime minister tony blair the iraq war i do must come to the leadership like of me as a member of the national assembly and how do you see its prospects of lifting plied to greater success or i don't is now standing in a parliamentarian who's here and the character in the national assembly he has a vision that runs way beyond wales and he has an inspiring quality that can boost played camry's membership and activism and i think we are opening a new chapter perhaps we might even be following the road that scotland has shown this but as i remember i think under your leadership like oh poor old the s.n.p. and they have to make a name wasn't like that oh well that was a great election in one thousand nine hundred ninety if we did go to some three percent more off labor would have been the largest party and you think that in place a bill to to make it well i'm quite certain here's a capability but even more so that is the vision to do something with the job when

he gets there and that he can play a role for wills as you did for scotland ludwig you know a member of one of the key committees studying blacks i know you're limited in what you can say about the evidence that you received in confidence but generally speaking i mean that evidence does that indicate that some of the the warnings that have been freely given them publicly at club are not exaggerations or do mongering but may well come to pass of those are a no deal bracks oh very much so i mean it's the trades of committees that i'm on and we look at matters such as the transport issues such as. london is going to cope with with brics it and the evidence in public session that to have been given has shown quite clearly that people who are at the sharp end just wants to the detail they want to get on with it they do. and want to perpetuate holding back and getting fairly straight and bono about it now has said it has a lot has plenty of politics played out tenet and of course we should remember

there's an anti but exit majority in the in the house a lot but generally speaking people would argue that the lords committees often go into an element of detail that sometimes they have the house of commons mrs because their people are too busy scoring political points do you think to host a lot scrimmage the has that emphasis is oh i think there was a lot of committees can do two things they can they have more time to look at some much as it has accomplished just don't have the time to do so and they also have a degree of expertise people whose background to a certain walks of life industry commerce and all the rest that bring that to the table and enable them to ask the right question at the appropriate time so the laws as the the watchdog of the bracks and constitution yes and to feed the information that comes to the commons so they can take better decisions that you still in favor of an elected house so very much so that i'm a democrat that wigley thank you very much nick. largely if that convinced you to peer however how do the crossbenches in the lords believe that the bricks into new

will will play out in the efforts alex spoke to largeness here on it and badness it in buying the city in. delighted to have your bell examined show thank you very much and we're delighted to be on your show madama clacton to you first what we've been discussing the possibility that the luxembourg court might rule the article fifty is revokable can be reversed if that were to happen in late november would that be something you think the host of lords would treat very seriously as an option i definitely do because i think that the house of lords even when the bill came to the house of lords after the house of commons made the current changes that we have and a lot of the excuses given by the government were that look according to the treaty article fifty now we are bound to come out

in march twenty nineteen and so therefore i think if the court decides then obviously they'll be a new debate in the house of lords and i think also a nation wide would you say that you think the interventions of the house of lords passing many amendments to the brakes that legislation what influential in widening the scope of the debate i'm not quite sure how much what the difference was in terms of i think it's part of thousand more. amendments different in terms of the scrutiny provided by the house of commons in the house of lords you can see the breath of knowledge and thinking and dedication to having a proper thorough discussion and meaningful. outcome for what is been a constitutional and public mess in the house of lords you. of a very different kind of mentality obviously there are three whips of which are

very strong conservative labor and liberal democrats but the crossbenchers and the independence the core as they wish and the law dammit i suspect some of them were. going up to the un saying well damn it we could appreciate your support and most crucial amendment coming up in the house of commons they come with the whip and they say you have to vote in the house of lords that beg said please can you stay behind could you please supporters on this particular so i think the whole thing changes in the house of lords and people when they have their own conscience and belief and if they've been lobbied they tend to we tend to certainly vote with conscience and of course i vote in the labor party because i was part of the labor party liberals also ask me. maybe independents or other crossbenchers who have amendments and we support them too but you don't have the

same pressure that's the point i'm making that you don't have the same pressure because you would have known many colleagues in the labor party or conservatives who would not even know what the amendment is but did know that they've got to vote yes or no in the lobbies what wigley i want to be slightly earlier made the point that this analogy between reform the lords and breck's it and if you remember reform of the lords had so many options but not a single one of them could carry a majority though we have a break so here it is possible there is no majority for any of the options even if there were to arrive at what could you see in the summer well we may sat guru act as would say and a big big mess that is and now the translation i don't know i think that if there is no simple solutions either for bricks it now given what we've done or the house of lords reform although i wait for the day that it is an all elected house if in a world you were to look at the crystal ball for the other part of those year or

perhaps what happened yes or no by intercity no. law dammit. i think if treason make at it her way she's trying to do that but i think there are a lot of difficulties softball saw especially this court decision especially when there are people in both houses who are saying now by january if she doesn't get this deal already the europeans are threat in that they can extend one here on with the irish border situation but not more a lot of you have lived up to your reputation of never going one work for several eloquent center this is a good actor i don't have a crystal ball but what i do have for you both is that i like simon quick so says the first interview to the studio because you passed the city perfect quick as you both know that's one scallop for loving cup traditionally

a scotch whiskey but i wouldn't brew it's an excellent trick under scottish and the quick of a comedy it brew to endure the orange juice persevere this stain i love who only does not have a wild goose axe for us a gold low your friendly scrape and the up of yeah no no we have it thank you so much very much thank you alex. or over the last few months the government have been keen to set the terms of the bracks it debates final stages at least in parliamentary terms they hope to be able to claim commons assent for the promised a meaningful vote on an amended will take note motion standing in the way as a still formidable presence of the speaker of the commons john bafta under fire but reportedly determined to lower the commons a proper choice of amendments and then there is the upper house if the commons were to pass a but accept plan by a big majority it is unlikely that the laws would be

a decisive spoke in the prime minister's wheel of a police m a would settle for the majority at one rate no and the noble lords might still have a hand to play finally there's just the possibility that a lot somebody court ruling on article fifty might be the straw that breaks the camel's back faced a mounting problems and uncertainty with time running out it is possible m.p.'s might if they're able to vote in that direction stop the clock and blacks while the a lot of the people to decide in a general election on a father referendum and the said that the last possible date for a meaningful commons vote is the week beginning the thirteenth of january twenty ninth. the romans were told to be we have the ides of march for these a may the ides of january may be every bit as dangerous. so for me than myself and although it is good bye for now i.

ran out of the flow to the best out of the jewels of. the concepts i was preparing to perform i had actually passed myself to die i. don't know said he had one of the most naive trust with. a slow and homo stuff her clown. discontinuity was.

good so done. so we'll see if you think. what it was that he could with us to. yes get more he did make sure that a story teller picked education a couple so kind of toilet b.s. i hear. what politicians do something to. put themselves on the line. to get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president. or somehow want to be. the two going to be first it's like that before three in the morning can't be good . i mean first of all is in the waters of. the city.

this is says harlan kentucky. it was very funny. a coma any city with almost no coal mines left. the jobs are gone all the coal was it said i'd. love to see these people the survivors of a world disappearing before their eyes. i remember thinking when i was younger that if anything ever happened to the coal mines here that it would become a ghost town but i never thought in the million years i would see that and it's how it's happened.

it. was. a series of bomb threats against top political and media figures continues for a second day in the us that is president trump on the american media argue as a who's to blame for the state of disarray. a very big part of the anger we see today in our society is caused by the purposely false and accurate reporting of the mainstream.