the only number you need to remember is one one does the show you can afford to miss the one and only boom box. following and welcome to worlds apart in seventeen years into the war in afghanistan the country seems for ram first stop in the repetitive cycle of violence elections assess nations and reconciliation talks can the changing world

around afghanistan finally and not get all of these bitten and extremely bloody track well to discuss that i'm now joined by ahmad wali muscled a former afghan diplomat and president of the mustard foundation mr mustard it's good to talk to you this evening thank you very much for your time. thank you thank you now whenever i look at the afghan politics i'm always overcome by the feeling of deja vu you have this same scenario playing out all over and over again the with some whole promise of peace on the eve of the elections crushed by the absolute hopelessness and despair after wards is that your perception as well and if so what explains this compulsive dysfunction well as you said rightly that for the past seventeen years the people of afghanistan have been looking for peace but so far after seventy years despite efforts often tanisha community despite the air. aim to

bring peace despite their promise to the afghan people to bring peace unfortunately i have not been a boat to bring peace under the contrary you can see that in afghanistan that terrorism and it tied up on they have come out and i believe that their reason for their failure to throw in the beginning we did not have a comprehensive road map for peace and i want a son and yet despite all this insecurity over a four million afghans who went to the polls over the weekend to lag their parliament tyrants which if accurate is a very high turnout for a country where voting is associated with such a high life risk given the scale of this year's election violence almost eighty people killed around five hundred wounded do you think it was worthwhile well as you sit right into this by i mean after seventeen years we still do not have a proper election we do not maintain security for the people but of course we do

appreciate it massive coming off the people today for decision that is being appreciated despite all the threats people came out to determine their own future their own decision but it does save time do what they find to talk about that yes we want to come to go to democracy but unfortunately under part of the election commission that was catastrophic on the part of the governor because i thought of something that was catastrophic but unfortunately as i mentioned before that so far for the past seventeen years we have not followed the national agenda and i saw a road map what i found something that is why you can see that i was actually up to seventy i was ripped up all by your bias now speaking about the elections i'm going to stuns the international partners still insist on holding them alone was religiously despite numerous instances of fraud violence intimidation about a third of registration centers failed to open during the last parliamentary. both

how we reached a point when the democratic rachael's are more important than the free uninformed choice that they are supposed to facilitate what i do believe does of course democracy in afghanistan is an issue essential it does not mean that democracy does not work in afghanistan what it means is that they govern it off on a subway station and to leave the ship to country did not believe didn't go or not willing to really go to dutch sort of democratic process here that is us you mentioned before the government which have come out of the throat and itself of course that has got things on hind end to bend and commission. and so therefore that is the government does some elites talk about what is what you are making heard of on the roads of democracy does not the people of afghanistan be brought up on us and how fans like you shown that they can come out despite all the threats they can't get out and they want to vote well my question is not really about

whether a democracy is suitable for afghanistan who am i to even ask god i'm asking whether it actually leaves ob the procedures the electoral procedures that you guys have actually leave op to the standard definition of democratic procedures and it's interesting that the foreign policy magazine just the other day reported that in there and he said patient massive fraud was diplomats have changed their language and instead of calling for free and fair elections then i was talking about elections whose results are quote unquote acceptable to afghans you are an afghan you come from a very respected family what is acceptable to you whether they accept it as well as we all wish to say that for a fair and democratic election for afghanistan an independent commission to carry out and manage the election in afghanistan i government which is what i read it organized it but action for afghanistan the whole procedure as you state the right to the whole procedure of a nation has gone wrong. people enough want to start with the people who voted

people who feel that they are successful in the election people who feel that they have not been successful all of the decision boys are saying that this election was another good election and therefore these are not the sort of illegitimate part of internet i want to sign that is a problem now you seem to lay the blame squarely at the feet of the afghan government but i want you for its international partners are also at least partly to blame because the western approach to afghanistan in particular the american approach to afghanistan has been there a little bit contradictory because on the one hand washington supports democratic governance if publicly indorse is elections but on the other hand. it embraces strongman for the sake of security and i wonder if you can really have bull's democracy and this oversized reliance on the warlords he end up on a sun as i mentioned before that democracy does work in afghanistan whether this

war or the other side it does work in afghanistan my job to go after people of france and divide to go to the path of democracy that's one of the militia communities constant of course they do want to see it's a sex and sex and i want to sign this some hostile or almost seventeen years often votes in afghanistan they are somehow getting exhausted why in afghanistan yeah democracy do not decide to come in and puff up on a sunday stipulated we're not going to do a kind of exhausted but we all know god does not decide to fold up the afghan people what is happening that they have two zero zero leadership their own system of governance and i find a song that has been somebody just off i want to stop who will somehow. derail the prose of the immigrants in afghanistan that is why the international community they want to just do stuff to see that some sort of election can take but is not want to so they can come out of this as gun problem aside but when you come back when you see. inside afghanistan the people often said they were determined to go to the

part of democracy only faction which are resisting democrats should have thought of that is to talk about terrorism let me again focus on these approach security approach of focusing on on the strong man because one of such strongman general abdul razak was assassinated just this past week in an attack which called into question the security of the entire saga in afghanistan and i understand the western countries may be relying on these strong men as i as i put it out of necessity it's an ugly necessity you need to provide some basic security but don't you think that this whole approach comes with its own security risk because from what i understand now the the future of calm there may be the entire afghanistan is now up in the air yes of course the roads have been very important yes assignation off. to killing off general draws a cop in a portent and for the past seventy years we have you seen that some very important

prominent commanders being i got on t.v. but as you could talk afghanistan i guess the top one dead being assassinated one by one that has been a chain off isolation off caring for for the past seventeen years but to save time it does not been done that would break the weight off the afghan people down here. unfortunately what is happening with this pattern off isis a nation one by one of course that's weakening he had enough on a sunday speaking to all good to go to the book to people off going to do it claiming that they are somehow sidelining to so-called warlords but the story is that this is not the war god this is afghanistan as and they say the state of the war so you can you must have the people who could say that this terrorism here and have been resisting terrorism for the past years and years unfortunately they govern tough one is that have not been able to really carry that sort of is to do to bring all of them together under one umbrella. well so-called national

resistance here that is what prisons have been reported and lost is being missed in afghanistan while with all due respect mr mustard i would not downplay the role of . strongman in the afghan politics for example the slain general. is believed to be to have been pretty instrumental both for the election of former president hamid karzai and to the election of the current president gandhi do you think he's elimination will change the nature all for the layout of the afghan politics in any way especially on the eve of the presidential elections that are set to take place next step april what of course it has already affected let's set up on a sunday time to what have been plus one for one week that has already affected afghanistan but be there for the if it comes under security decided like as has been lost general does it of course is security office out of focus on at this war brought stuff up on

a site that has been threatened by the taliban and by tourism there's no doubt about such things but what is the political impact of general residence getting this concept of course that has affected their part of education but in the long term of course plotted to kill a side effect would be covered by the us part of the security is constant so long as this situation have not been established so long as we do not to stop this decision instead so we always mr knows it can decide it was for us could just come so now as since i already mentioned the names of both the current and the former presidents i think both of them represent a trend that's been also observed in some other countries where they have an american presence that is when. a prominent national figures who've made a career in the west come back to the country or are brought back to the country to implement some sort of positive democratic change i know that you've been a fairly critical of that phenomenon what's wrong with it why do i listen to you.

and there. when did soviet union was here or what happened who really bush waited is so obvious who got inside afghanistan to bring m to soft wasn't of course inside office and that was believe there should be asked to leave the ship what persuaded him to come to afghanistan that is why for the ninety years a deal what inside afghanistan that was catastrophic us was waterstone's so exactly the same way there are some that's going to have become what bush created and that because of a president that donation of community interest not on his son was doing that they can represent the interest of the american left on a sub but when we see the past seventeen years they have not produced not deliver there with which is wrong so that is why we didn't get this passed and must change now both president gandhi and president karzai before seem to used to have three d. a good relationship with the washington at the beginning of that terms which seems to have changed by the ad of their terms what do you think explains this change of

heart on the part of the afghan leadership and why is it so consistent starting on a high note and adding on a note on a low notes but that americans what i do believe deaf to lead issue was not able to deliver on one side by their own dad. the situation in afghanistan is different good thing that probably added to mission community they are not they were not helping them as much as they think that day expected to help so that is why the relation deteriorated but i don't believe the media got this report off did ask good leadership the african leadership leadership really really came into some sort of consensus with gascón people i do believe that we could have served our national interests better with wind and interaction with the international community i do believe that we could have many catastrophe and as for the past seventeen yes but of course he does not topic but let me say one more thing about what is it an issue that can. just one sad especially this on

a specific countries all four didn't have their own interests all good deeds will have their own news sites you can press but what is in all or part of all we'd really kind of kind of giving a sort of definition of our own interest to clone side to good together with interests are going to interest of that as you can we talk tough so low so fast but as we know their laughter leadership has not developed does so doth interest does sort of definition to really convinced into michigan needed that we do half an hour paul on point our own national interest well listen i said we have to take a short break now but we will be back in just a few moments states. cracking gave americans a lot of new job opportunities i needed to come up here to make some money i

could make twenty five thousand dollars as a teacher or i could make fifty thousand dollars a year truck so i chose to drive truck people rushed to a small town in north dakota was an unemployment rate of zero percent like gold rush is very very similar to a gold rush but this beautiful story ended with pollution and devastation a lot of people have left here i don't know too many people here in the mountains and the slowdown so much they lost their jobs that laid off the american dream is changing that's not what it used to be. and it's a tough reality to deal. with .

welcome back to worlds apart from a half month by the muscle with format afghan diplomat and president of the am i said foundation mr mr just before the break we started talking about the numerous afghan governments and their ability or inability to deliver on their promises and the united states back in two thousand and fourteen was very have only involved in called linked together the current unity or some would say disunity governments which was fairly unpopular as far as i understand among the people but still how together do you think pushing to gather and not a unity government with be a good idea come two thousand and nineteen i do believe that in afghanistan what was needed was unity government force a national unity government in afghanistan if it was. agreed on what was needed on the situation side going to set off afghanistan that would have worked for example

we do have in the unity government sort of contract agreement between the two parties which came together made to coalition and then if you need to go to but so forth that thought that was not implemented that is why we concede to failure of so-called the unity government i do believe that if one is sunday unity government has not been formed it has not been formed. i don't talk to you need to go to how it's not been implemented for example what was it it was two years ago the first two years on the unity government debt should have been a really good guy to change a system of afghanistan the political system the structure of a president did not happen so therefore in many parse this is going to have a field that was not able to really establish the truth and formidable unity government while odd that the unity government of the united states how to put together was also very demonstrative least sidelined when the united states under donald decided to engage in direct talks with. the taliban do you think that it was

a good decision especially in the hind side of this latest attack in qana the hideout was claimed by the taliban and that killed not only the general who went to mention but also wounded a high profile american commander i do believe that when we talk about peace in afghanistan to peace have to come from within afghanistan of course our friends in the national committee they can have peace process in afghanistan but what is far more important the price you know afghanistan is the peace have to come from within afghanistan with the kind says this off the afghan people fired up but when we want to make peace with the taliban i don't know course we have to give a clear agenda makes peace with one of the we have talked about in afghanistan of course that was the old resistance forces what do you need to focus on you're not part of the peace process this is do we want to talk about us or what makes up more than half of the population of the us are not part of the process this is the civil society if i want to talk which divide is completely different from what i want to

talk about doing this is not part of the process so therefore if these detainees are not taken into account so of course that's not peace in afghanistan but it decision time we do foresaw that then it should be meaty to really push for peace in afghanistan we do appreciate that didn't go and said we want to talk with the top but the brighter to their position or the peace process must lie with it afghan people mr president now that your late brother ahmed shah masood a resistance hero from many afghans during the soviet intervention and than during the taliban advance also in gauged in talks with a and i mean he did talk to some taliban cannot commanders he wanted that moment to be part of the political process but that never materialized because the taliban never shared he's vision of what the political process entails and he's a vision of what afghanistan is supposed to be what can you discuss with an adversary. ones the very opposite of what you are striving for i do believe that

yes absolutely you are right that my late brother masood tried and even he took the risk of his like to go to one of the province where the leadership of thought on what it to discuss peace but when he came out he said well this is not the taleban not speaking for peace but even today softer almost since his day for the past eighteen the as yet have been some sort of a different what is genuine or political attempt but there have been some sort of attempt to bring peace enough on a sunday that has not yet and it is out and do these it is that. first day government offices not have a national roadmap for peace the second thought about to be this you did not have a united leadership so therefore you did not go exactly flew to talk to the turn off course why pakistan was behind them they wanted the beholder to talk about it so therefore it does sort of complicate the now when we talk about the peace there

are many countries were trying to bring peace and i want to son so fought the people of afghanistan is still have not saved their own work was sort of peace we want and afghanistan what it tried to say is that almost every entity they are trying to interpret peace often want to send based on their own interest but so far out at the moment for the past seventy years the end just off the afghan people have been lost it's not dead because the people of afghanistan on the other involved that you mentioned pakistan and i know that your brother attributed the strength of the taliban at the time to pakistan is interference pakistan now has a new leader in iran how and i know that you found he's rhetoric on the relationship between afghanistan and pakistan quite encouraging has it moved beyond wars though. dissenting leadership of course the f b i he has been saying that he is for the peace in afghanistan he say that despair for the bachelor interests of both countries but so far almost today when i talk to some people are fond of peace . so they try to pakistan they were supposed to meet with some political parties

who are the minister of taguba but this said that when we talked with him all of this sort of blood all of the plot and all what was seized from pakistan that was not there anymore so i unfortunately and i find it sad that peace cannot come away and i sort of fashion that we are for and so far we do not see any signs yet that you speak very passionately both here and during your previous interviews against the afghan version all five dentity politics i know you tweeted the other day that it's time to switch from the question of who. still in etc to the question of what some sort of call an agenda for all ethnicities for all clans that make up your country that's easier said than down though especially when the country so fragmented how would you do that well so far for the purpose of india. who was that duckworth put up on a son did talk first we have to bring somebody either to go pick up on his son so

he can be the president and we can conduct our business through him it did not work then be brought somebody and on and off day genius off on his side and then you have to hope that i stop by the what the past five years we can see the catastrophe of west happening here but now this who does not work who which party which it misses the these does not work in afghanistan all how failed we have to really go for what to say about what is and what can unify afghanistan west can bring out what isn't together to save the country from disgraces that is the key but so far for the past seventy is international community have not invested on what all of that time to have invested or what did this is the what their son was that he is close to us are not that competent to have failed now speaking about international communities investments in afghanistan if you're leading a charity. foundation so let me ask you specifically about foreign aid to

afghanistan a few years ago the world bank reported that only thirty eight sounds of every a dollar spent in afghanistan actually reaches the economy much of it goes back to donor countries in the form of huge consultancy fees construction profits what have you ease eight a blessing or a curse for your country whether that is your money which becomes a democratic wasn't then goes back to spend on something which is not inefficient i suggest corruption that's a crime and much of that money which had been. donated already been given and democrats want to sign that have been inside to govern to set up a fight i want to start all outside that has gone completely away people to help us and have not benefited from dot what does is an obvious fact that is why we see that corruption as sole outstanding i just want to go to this office has gone

son as well as i sort of came and do it involved with some sort of corruption with the governor's office and to take their money back out of going to some well mr miso that i think it's very easy to blame corruption on the afghan government in fact everybody's doing that but i'm specifically asking about the role of the international community and international donors because when you can make such a handsome caught on providing consultancy or a necessary infrastructure to afghanistan the you may develop. a strong material interest in keeping it as unstable how substantial do you think a special interest financial special interest in keeping afghanistan so reliant on foreign aid whether that's exactly the. sort of a good feeling that it consulting fee or some other advisers who came to afghanistan and do what they were in practice with the government up. on

a sunday took their money and some of their money got up on to something that has been decades for the past seventy eight and i've got a son and i do believe dad. decided to get the order to people out of office and have not benefited from that situation that is why after seventy years we can see dad did pull over to live as good as going up and many alfonse guns what company no under poverty does it all reduce a few people with water. inside to go to all or something and buys us who can far outside the concept that they have benefit from doubt trent well if i'm not mistaken the poverty levels in afghanistan have once again exceeded fifty percent of the population now this lack of statesmanship that the a mansion to iran seeking behavior among the countries elites how long been recognized as a problem and on the eve of every election they are candidates plotting to put an end to that what are the chances of the change actually happening comedy of

presidential elections next april i do believe this election day but we did a show and it was a good examination of their failure to hop off to go to puff up on a sunday but it descend go to base management of the commission. and depend upon it going to show up on a sunday i do believe that from now on people will decide i don't think if that sort of bottom will work in the presidential election in six months time i do believe that many but addition and ordered people off on sunday would pressurize they go to it as well as deal what they quizzed on this if you wanted to change department because if despised and was deceived sort of system as implemented then the position of action and six months time with a catastrophe in afghanistan but that he believed that this is not going to add to the politician even more to say that while i'm here to morrow they can make a deal and they can go it to go to or they can be tied just why would i post i do this is the fate of the. on

a sunday at the moment after five years solve these government stage whether we make it or break it that is not big is it but edition has decided to go to sweden that this is the fate of the afghan people well mr mrs we have to leave it there but i really appreciate your being with us today thank you very much thank you thank you i encourage our viewers to keep this conversation going in our social media pages and hope to see you again same place same time here on worlds apart.

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the. lead. headlines when i see international in germany be mostly known for its anti immigration is expected to enter the parliament. even represented yet. italy says it will refuse to revise its budget as demanded by brussels deputy prime minister luigi did.