this is the campaigning thing i'm going to make a deal with i'm going to make a deal with russia or i'm going to get rid of nato and the democrats came down on him. i think go high and go to defend himself you know they they actually voted in the congress not to allow the u.s. to get troops out in a career he had that in so you know this is a system that it corruption and influence of the military industrial complex in the united states and it's going to be an opportunity to really get everybody we should be we shouldn't be talking about maintaining this trading that's ticket with one hundred twenty two nations just signed a treaty to prohibit nuclear weapons and ban them and make them unlawful the way we have the chemical. and russia are in the u.s. and china are in france and england you know the nonproliferation treaty now as

they have boycotting it it's within arm's not at that point it language nashton be it's time to ban the bomb not just until another arms control i mean we will break control the e.u.'s with when we walked out of the a.b.m. treaty russia never kept complaining we never did a thing that it well but russian so there would be consequences and i think we're going to see that you know ted it seems to me you know with the advent of arms control agreements in the late sixty's all the way up to one gets a few days ago that was a nonpartisan issue they were almost like sacred cows that you really don't touch and it seems very quickly now the entire architecture of arms control and nonproliferation is it's turning into tatters in front of our eyes go ahead. thank you peter i would say having twenty six years of experience as an american diplomat

most of that concerned with arms control with nonproliferation with the elimination of entire classes of weapons that what alice is talking about is the real danger in the real challenge here we're looking at a world where arms control may not be enough we're looking at a need for declaring first that nuclear weapons are unlawful and having all of the powers sign on to that and then do something about reducing the thousands of active nuclear weapons that are still out there ok we're down from you know scores of thousands to me or you know under twenty thousand now that's not good enough we have to bring it down into the low hundreds and then we have to get rid of them entirely and that's not going to be an easy process and it's not going to be a quick one but the problem with looking at the i.n.f. treaty in isolation is that what you've actually got is a massive hole where a european security architecture ought to be there's been divisions within the last few years in particular between western europe and the russian federation and

that's on the healthy because russia is a european power in addition to being a global power obviously but the rest of europe needs to deal with russia on that basis and so talking about something like a dead letter like the i.n.f. treaty is like talking about the washington or the london naval treaties of the twenty's and thirty's it's irrelevant because what's actually broken is the entire architecture you know the issue of these treaties i mean we had the the iran's new killer deal and now we have this trump is always saying you know let's let's come up with a new agreement here but i mean if in and we put yourself in the shoes of north korea would you sign an agreement with the united states when it comes to nuclear weapons i mean it's that credibility gap is growing wider and wider i mean why would any american president say i want to conclude agreements while he's breaking ones left and right go ahead john in san francisco. that's absolutely right and there's really nothing stopping trump or anyone else to go to the table with the

russian again and then prove army architecture that exists obviously it's flawed there are holes in it but that doesn't mean you throw out what you have that has been relatively successful up to now and you know when you're saying you're throwing out the iran agreement you're throwing out the i.m.f. it makes negotiating new agreements even more difficult the only thing trump has left is to rename things like nafta give them a new name but that's not diplomacy and what's disappointing about the i.n.f. treaty in a lot of ways is that the u.s. could have gone to the table with russia there are technical ways of solving the problems that were there in terms of inspections reciprocal exhibitions those could have solved the problems that the two countries had instead of walking away from the table but what's scary is that these countries want to have an arms race and

that makes banning these nuclear weapons all the more difficult when you're barreling one hundred eighty degrees in the opposite direction you know now and there's a lot of european take the the germans have come out against the wall the americans walking away from the treaty i mean this creates the treaty came into effect to actually protect a europe with the americans walking away from it it creates an enormous amount of uncertainty right now and what directions the european money in western europe they don't want american weapons of course maybe in eastern europe and in the baltics they might welcome them but the entire security architecture is listing right now because we don't know what the new realities are going to be and adding the new a range of weapons certainly doesn't create stability and making the kind of. claim or demand that china has to be part of this is a it's ridiculous. i mean china has these weapons or rand has these weapons. india

is the developing these weapons here i mean a smart person interested in arms control would get all these countries that have these weapons or developing them and have a global pact but that's not part of john bolton's d.n.a. is it listen we already have but global pact in one nine hundred seven do we promise to get rid of all on nuclear weapons in the nonproliferation treaty oh but i'm going to spend a trillion dollars over thirty years to new but on factoring in jenin was our most new submarine missile there playing xbox do smart as smaller nuclear weapons it talking about as small a nuclear weapon is as big as when it hiroshima and nagasaki i mean we have to change the conversation we've got a climate. that if we don't mobilize the whole we're on to move immediately the solar and wind and geothermal we're going to have the earth is

billions in the earth so how can we be wasting all these resources an i.q. points on new nuclear weapons and fix the little treaty that didn't get rid of them it's just step by step to know here we have to change this conversation to getting rid of all of this ted well you know if you look at these posture of security and defense posture reports that have come out of the trump administration it is truly shocking if you read it carefully but they the u.s. wants to develop short range nuclear weapons and make them make it more possible to use them under a variety of circumstances i mean that shouldn't worry everyone about europe security and global security in general go ahead. well i want to pick up on a couple of things peter what john said about nafta was very important i would characterize it slightly differently but it's something we have to keep in the back

of our minds what alice said about the nonproliferation treaty and the pledge by all nuclear powers to do away with nuclear weapons is also extremely important and there's a specific reason that we don't trust in stable nuclear deterrence anymore we can't afford to first off nafta has been renegotiated it was abrogated unilaterally people said this is ridiculous nafta took decades to negotiate it will take decades more to replace it it didn't it took a few months because basically what you're dealing with in donald trump is someone that ghost wrote you know had ghost written for him the art of the deal ok this is how he operates he's looking at changing paradigms whenever he can to get an advantage either for himself personally or in this case for the united states he's done that with nafta i believe that's what he's up to with i.n.f. i'm not worried about john bolton john bolton was at the state department for all those years that i was he's a minor character at best he said some pretty outrageous things but if you've

noticed john will trump his modus operandi include surrounding himself with people that say outrageous things what's important is what gets done in the end right now cannot arise helen helen let me jump in here right here but i've got to go to a hard break here after a short break we'll continue our discussion on bolton's foreign policy stay with our. franking gave americans a lot of. opportunities i needed to come up here to make some money i could make twenty five thousand dollars as a teacher or i could me to keep. dollars a year truck so i chose to drive truck people rush to a small town in north dakota was an unemployment rate of zero percent just like the

gold rush is very very similar to a gold rush but this beautiful story ended with pollution and devastation a lot of people have left here i don't know too many people here anymore just slow down too much the last jobs got laid off and the american dream is changing that's not what it used to be. and it's a tough reality to deal. i've been saying the numbers mean something they matter the u.s. has over one trillion dollars in debt more than ten white collar crime stamped each dish. eighty five percent of global wealth you longs to be all for rich eight point six percent market saw thirty percent rise last year some with four hundred to five hundred trees per circuit first shut and bitcoin rose to twenty thousand dollars. china is building a two point one billion dollar a i industrial park but don't let the numbers overwhelm. the only numbers you need

remember one one business showed you can't afford to miss the one and only boom bust. so small seemed wrong all right all right all just all. but yet to stamp out these things to come out ahead and in gains from it because of the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart. chance to look for common ground. the priest who raped me when i was fourteen years of age was known to be a sexual abuser when he was ordained a priest the church knew about his offending behavior and they were going to continue to abuse from these ordination right through his entire career as

a priest. running out of the globe to the best out of the children of. the concepts i was paying to perform i had to actually prepare myself to. read what. i was sorry. to see in a home of. her. scanty . deity. so. what. was it he could. not. keep me sure.

i. welcome back to cross talk where all things considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing the world according to john bolton.

ok let me go back to ted in oxford you said something very interesting right before we went to the break here you characterized bolton is kind of a bit character but he seems it least in public in the way it's reported he seems to have an enormous amount of sway over donald trump donald trump came into office as being on hawk on iran well i don't think we need to explain to anyone watching this program about john bolton's views of iran i worry very much about that it's two people with the same mind in having the same goal and not showing any kind of restraint matter fact just the opposite a lot of threats go ahead ted in oxford. ok i have to disagree peter and i base this not just on the twenty six years i spent as a foreign service officer but specifically on the years i spent in the u.s.

mission to nato as the arms control advisor to then ambassador evo daalder who is himself a committed arms controller and this was under president obama and you'll remember that obama went to prague in two thousand and nine early on in his administration and he talked about having a world free of nuclear weapons and then at nato for the subsequent years of my tenure there are left in two thousand and eleven i saw the department of defense and the department of energy systematically dismantling any possibility of president obama's prague agenda being adopted first by our european allies and then by anyone else ok obama was done in by his own cabinet by the department of defense and specifically by the department of energy and when we talk military industrial complex people trying to get the people that this. bill i knew clear weapons but people like john bolton correct. no no no bolton has a hawkish attitude ok and he's useful sometimes for some things but he's not d.o.d. and he's not and those are the people you really have to worry about because

they've got skin in the game they're the ones that make money for nuclear war and every other kind that's i absolutely agree with that here let me go to go to john here but i still think the outlook and and and ideology foreign policy ideology that john bolton has is having an impression on donald trump i mean the fact that he would trumpet announces that a campaign rally. all of the european allies were caught flatfooted or or didn't expect that he would make that announcement so clear i mean everything is done backwards that's why i said it in my introduction here i mean when you discuss these things that the your allies before you make a public statement and of course the statement about the i.m.f. was made completely out of context for the audience to understand so i mean that's why i started the program incoherent foreign policy john bolton seems to know what he wants go ahead john. well as far as talking to the allies i mean we have to remember that this puts millions of lives in europe at danger and used

when these weapons were there that the i.m.f. . work to ban you have millions of people in the streets in europe protesting against that gun that was put to their head so of course you talk to the allies because it affects millions of people there i do think bolton's foreign policy is having a lot of influence right now but donald trump does listen to his own council mostly and we don't know where this is going to head but you can see and is iran policy which includes the horrific war in yemen that we need to bring to an end and you can see it in this approach to arms control as far as renegotiate. treaties and arms control agreements i think it's right that you don't have to take a long time you saw that at the dawn of the arms control era with the limited test ban treaty but this is a little like repeal and replace when you're talking about replacing treaties but

you're just getting rid of something without really having a clear demonstration of what it is you're going to replace it with so i'd be very cautious about getting too excited about what donald trump is going to bring forward in terms of arms control. that may come to pass because it would be a real father in the cap of donald trump like with north korea he wants to be seen as a deal maker but we should believe it when we see it now and so we have the new start treaty burma nul in two thousand and twenty one. the american withdrawal from the i.m.f. three how do you see. it because i agree with what ted and john have said i mean. it doesn't take a barry long time it does take time to update an agreement and this in the start new start treaty is very important but they should be working on it now right but

if they're not working on it now it looks like they're not going to pursue it again another very important element of the arms control our infrastructure is decaying in front of our eyes go ahead alice in new york. i totally disagree ok this is really they stand being blocking. the treaty of the program fishnet nuclear weapon one hundred twenty two people just nation just about. it's going through a ratification process that you. think. and this is like talking about on control and twenty first century it's so twentieth century neverwhere it wound up with oh darling you know said in his famous products you know i want to where there are nuclear disarmament it might not happen in my lifetime and then hillary misquoted him and said it might not happen in several like terms welding him wrong i mean we have to literally change the

conversation that took a bad little start treaty in the i.m.f. but the then that she then alex i have to disagree with you i mean we have to start somewhere let me go back to ted in the let me go back to ted announcer. this is going to be in an incremental process with the massive military buildup going on in the united states i don't expect russia to get rid of its nuclear weapons anytime soon particularly when american through nato american forces to nato on russia's borders right now that is its guarantee to solve now if we have agreements where we incrementally lower the number of warheads that might be a logical start i would say go ahead ted. well i agree completely with alice and disagree completely with you peter here's why i find there are facts on the ground that we weren't aware of back in the one nine hundred eighty s. when we were negotiating things like the i.n.f. treaty back in the one nine hundred eighty s.

scientists looked at computer modeling of atmospheric dynamics in the event of nuclear war and they came up with the term nuclear winter which meant we thought back then that. in the event of hundreds or possibly thousands of nuclear explosions up to and including the megaton range that we would have to worry about the cold in the dark taking over about ultraviolet radiation killing everything on the ground and in the oceans so people starving people burning simultaneously people freezing all of that we thought was a problem and that was one of the things that led the leaders of the then soviet union in the united states of america to the negotiating table to get serious about reducing the obscene numbers of nuclear weapons that were lying around at that time now fast forward to two thousand and fourteen and modern computer science and this is because of climate modeling that we have computers and computer software this profound we now know it only takes about one hundred hiroshima size weapons and

that's nothing that's an aggregate total of one and a half mega tons of nuclear explosive force if we pop that off we end civilization as we know it which means that there is no such thing as stable and reliable nuclear deterrence is an absurd concept in the face of what we now know about nuclear winter and that's exactly why alice is right the i and there ain't enough new start ain't enough we've got to look at a whole new way of getting down below one and a half mega tons of global nuclear capability we have to do it we are under the gun literally because right now if pakistan and india decided they don't like each other to the point where they will exchange nuclear weapons civilization ends ok john so if we continue the argument of alice and ted so who cares about nonproliferation because that's what's going to happen here ok then you've got to get a saudi arabia that's going to have nuclear weapon then you got to get a japan that wants to do it and then maybe taiwan will get into the i guess i

fundamentally disagree with ted in alice here i think you have to start somewhere to get to that point where i think all of us would agree but just saying i don't see what political force is going to make that complete. withdraw all for of nuclear weapons on this earth i don't see what political imperative will make that happen at this point in time go ahead john in san francisco well i don't think the two perspectives are mutually exclusive i think we need the urgency to realize it's two way these weapons can destroy humanity we need to ban them as soon as possible that john is to be hollowed out how they are how do i do that john how do i agree with all of you how do we get there john you know you know i don't like that john finish what i was going to what i would. what i was going to say is that's not a mutually exclusive from also having strong arms control agreements that move us in the right direction but but here in the united states we would we should be

putting pressure on our elected officials to embrace the treaty to ban nuclear weapons while at the same time we try to cut funding for nuclear weapons in congress and we engage in nuclear diplomacy whether it's with north korea or with russia or with anybody else it has to be a holistic vision in which we can take incremental steps at the same time we have a very clear vision that we are working to ban nuclear weapons as quickly as possible i don't think those two things are mutually exclusive if we get away get rid of the arms control regime and we allow the amount of states to spend a trillion dollars a trillion and a half dollars rebuilding the nuclear infrastructure we're never going to be able to ban nuclear weapons so we have to bring it all together ok out alice in new york in the last word go ahead we have a project to do the i can network then sort of speed ahead of the adoption of the

treaty don't bank on them that we're working on the united states here in new york city they're getting a city council it's a goner that could probably not be best a nuclear weapon i mean there are a lot of things we can do in the nuclear weapons day but you are ignoring this avalanche coming down known as the climate catastrophe i mean within the next couple years that we don't do anything that lives then the storms and the droughts and the refugee. movement that's going to draw our attention away from nuclear weapons and war we have to have a war to make sure we get one hundred percent so there and when and hydro and efficiency and that's something all. countries could be doing to the benefit of everybody and that's that's another conversation instead of war we need a war on climate catastrophe and that's where the boy should be that's where the

money and the energy we have some obama ok i have the judgment here i wish it would be a war on the military industrial complex and then all the power would be in agreement that's all the time we have many thanks and i guess in new york san francisco and in oxford and thanks to our viewers for watching us here on r.t.c. you next time and remember. prosecution will need to be criminals and this should be focused on the court where you push. the threat of fines somebody known to see do i mean yeah yeah i mean political pressure on the. security industry knows what the bundled up business models used by american corporations jackals was

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subscribe to read people also get him for just twelve euros fifty per month. the headlines here on out to the donald trump trade war showing no sign of abating old photos japan and china are making the best of a bad situation by thinking several new economic deals. italy says it refuses to revise its budget which was rejected by brussels and to make the point more vividly one italian m.e.p. made clear that he'd rather give the e.u.

a good shooing.