to be permanent. distance with this question brings forward two problems first we are in the schengen european zone where there is freedom of movement so when isis was around there was a very strong terrorist threats against europe and notably our country in particular was bloodied by terrorist attacks isis planned to infiltrate via the must have climbed this time immigration networks which destabilized the functioning of europe dormant networks to attack the states that were sending armed forces to fight in syria today massive illegal immigration has created a political problem for europe germany is directly affected do this dance of angle of merkel italy as well but surprisingly their new minister of the interior has decided to slam their borders shut it is true that we could occasionally close the borders for example for a weekend during those big international protests at the bigger national summits but right now there is insecurity linked to illegal immigration in the public opinion even if it's not justified there's also the terrorism risk of course but

there is above all a populist reflex that we can observe in hungary and italy among other countries. and it's been a year since france lifted a state of emergency imposed after they plan attacks but as your interior minister says everything is fine to believe that everything's ok now. that new france is very much threatened like never before actually we participates in the syrian coalition but we also have a vast operation for establishing security in africa so we have a menace which comes from outside that's one threat and massive number of french citizens are in syria about two thousand with their families they are now in hiding because they know that we are waiting to prosecute them in france with some have been locked away in prison in syria during the military campaign. against isis you

know all this but isis is not defeated yet politically or socially it is maybe close to being defeated militarily but they still keep their tools and services they still have followers of these and so we don't know. why their propaganda on the internet do you think that now that i says is almost defeat ate their internet propaganda is still as dangerous as before. yes yes of course because when you do something you have to have people know what you did. on the second thread i want to talk about that exists in france is a thread from the inside to flip it exists in our territory there are people who use this kind of internet communication that we're talking about to fulfill their need for respect for being useful we also have cases unfortunately linked with mental illness troubles and all that kind of stuff leaves us with low cost

terrorism and the potential for action it any time so we should not bring our guard down. but to go back to the question to saying there french surveillance services are doing fine without the state of emergency. yes in the sense that we also have a plan a plea of inside terrorist legislation since. we have new paths of action open for intelligence and we have the possibility to act now on the administrates of a level for instance arrests which are under legislative control of course are decided by the i mean this really of authority now we can search we can call outs we can expel we can put under house arrest i mean there are lots of tools for the prevention of radicalization we'll talk about this and more detail but i want to ask for the people because you said that the terrorist threat was still high in france should people just get used to leave. this always watching not living in

a state of readiness because this was never a problem friends before. so those who know never i mean we live in a country of freedom and this is why in the past the terrorists from the extreme left came to meet secretly in france france is a country of freedoms and this is due to its history we are a democratic country so today yes given the way in which the last terrorist attacks were programmed structured using european logistics we can see that there is a certain desire to change the way of life to change the society in france as an answer to that sara threat and this is the risk of the stability. on one hand by the terrorist attacks themselves but also by the rise of rampant salafi is an every day life the issue of wearing head scarves in society in swimming pools join sports etc so today there is a reflection that has to be made regarding the organisation of islam in france

which is not in self a problem the minister of the in syria is responsible for the questions of religious practices on national territory so this goes from the training of moms to talking about the muslim world to the concept of preaching. but the muslim world in itself is not a problem there is a minority it's problematic. now and i want to talk to you about different types of terrorism because you will see more and more the terror acts in the europe are increasingly committed by a lone wolf. of course terror after it's our efficient against bigger guns ations but how do we deal with someone who is not attracted to a bigger organization. right in the so today it is necessary to make the distinction between and i said that at the mohammed merah. trial they were in the

method right so before people would go to afghanistan they would stay there for a couple of years for theory and practical exercises and then come back to commit terror attacks in france or now for the first time we have a type of terrorist on our hands someone who for example in fifteen days after having been radicalized within a family a neighborhood and environments prison a community who was training only thirteen days and we know the person who was giving the classes he was killed in a drone strike by americans much later he thought only operational commanders who went back to europe so fifteen days was something we had never seen before. and today the questions of the interior intelligence is posed like this which person out of one hundred people is capable of taking a terrorist action without having executed the i thought which is obviously

a punishable offense without having done any preparations for instance buying nitrogen songs and fertilizer which can be used for preparing explosives which can take off our attention the task is now. to probe the consciousness to find out who has an intention to commit a terrorist act in their head. and this is where we asked after the affair to legalize special operations which are particularly useful in the of counter-espionage like the internet surveillance email surveillance everything with regards to social networks and all that kind of stuff the problem is no longer only that of the police threat analysis must be much more refined it must bring together sociologists academics people from surveillance lawyers psychologists i

don't priests how can we prevent extreme radicalization working as a group we should france be operating some kind of advanced warning intelligence network outside the country that enables it to stay had of terror plans i saw actually israeli counter terrorist specialists and they all told me that having a good intelligence network in bad and the terrorists abroad is what saves most lives at the end of the day. you know we. both internal and external intelligence services benefits from a multilateral exchange base between the european intel bureaus we have national experts you. see sen the center on the situation. which permits us to make common analysis using the practical experiences of each country. then we have the bilateral exchange from service to service by country and finally we

have a friendly club of directors of the services where we discuss freely what should be done and what will happen use of all today the issue is are we able to spot etc just on a european level usually the answer is not yet it's going to see what i mean the americans were not able to do that either so today this and disobey sion because you need to anticipate thread into submission exists thanks to sharing and exchange of trust between people who are competent and professional who respect each other and who above all protect their human sources because in the intelligence services the key is human sources and operational intelligence as well like surveillance and it cannot come up with a solution to a problem if your human sources are compromised and this is a difficulty and the reason why exchanging information is so important for them.

to take a short break right now when we have apple continued talking till now that this question in a former head of the french internal security bill. the talk of impending war around the world is on the increase the great powers speak openly on the need to prepare for a conflict what does this tell us anything it appears to be a sign the global order they came into being up in the second world war and the cold war has come to an end what is replacing it.

in a world of big partisan lot and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door. and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. while give easy voth and this us. and. rational

a self in their. desire for love need the fear. that the new dell cause i'm a. zimmer full. of them shows selected it's a. small fortune in that again do your dad. fortune very up number a lot about this morning. there's no break here and no one to know why is this terrorist.

bad memories. twenty four years ago this country song. of the world. after the genocide. in rwanda a man. killed a women to fix what the men had broken. in were a bad boy and i love. head of the french internal security bureau. he said that we have yet to establish a profile of a terrorists and this is why americans and everyone who is facing this terrorist

problem is trying different techniques and how to fight against terrorism for instance for americans it's collecting data is something that france could or would do because a one hand you control people on the other hand it is a fine line. i perfectly understand your question and i will be very direct x. and one handy collect data you control people somehow but on the other hand it is a fine line. so you collect intelligence. you collect intelligence to do what with it. it is like a library you use it when you need it so being threatened by terrorism and it is the number one threat for you would collect a lot of metadata like a comment on a global level but let's not kid ourselves you can or make us be and is a dominant part of all services. so besides dealing with terrorism we can collect

a large amount of intelligence which will serve our country information economic competition military market. arms supply all that kind of thing among a multitude of others or we can outright bring an advantage to one company over another over its competitor. so this is where we must find the limits of the system for terrorism yes it's allowed when but for other purposes data mining is an attack on the national sovereignty of each country you should be. suggesting that collecting personal data is something that efficient in terms of fight against terrorism separately it's can be a thing if we use it in an intelligent way and if we for in the exact piece of the conversation that is necessary for us to prove an offense but really managing

meta data implies collection masses storage and above all software to go find a small needle that is in the haystack. so it is very delicate it is not simple. the technical side that's only one aspect of the fight against terrorism. human side is very important it is the one that is the most relevant and the one that can have remarkable efficiency. but what do you mean by the human side. the human side is recruiting informants from within terrorist organizations who will explain to you what's going on they have different motives of course but they are the best source because here at the heart of their going to zation. if i'm not mistaken pan-european and terror. by paris anyway caused the attacks in france

and belgium including a law that allows a broad collection of air passenger data and a wide sharing of age to identify suspicious patterns. so this is an old issue with this program it's called a passenger name record to date while fighting against terrorism it is good to anticipate and to know it's good to follow certain targets if think could be taking action so it's good to know where they are going with who etc and how many terrorists have been caught thanks to this law so far. who were not able to do it before because we didn't have the tool we only found out later that they were going around certain countries and making connections after the fact right so i will explain today given that the pan-european decision about the data collection was not taken even though other countries have this plan in place when you take the blame you present your boarding pass at the council and you put it in the

electronic terminal the plane leaves the flight attendant takes all the stubs in general the should correspond to the number of passengers and then the company will give these elements is this information to the police. and they're the best injures are checked. but it is a bit late because the flight is a really in the middle of the atlantic and sometimes with patronymic names that are not very well and then to fight it can create problems what we wanted was to have personal information at the reserve ation time one month before the flight the ticket was paid for with whom the person is traveling to the states that would permit us to react and to say hold on this person is going to this country so we will call our plan. brother service so that they take that into account because he surely has an important meeting in an area that is very important to us so this is

what we wanted with the anticipation of the events and the follow up on the potentially problematic people so making this plan work across europe was always difficult because of the opposition from german politicians when spain so could split as the head of the e.u. a country who paid a very high price with regards to terrorism especially military we made major progress in obtaining more tools to fight against terrorism it was the spanish who obtained the european arrest warrant and common investigation teams meaning someone from spain can join the french team on a terrorist project or on surveillance or procedure a french judge can use a record of a spanish officer in their procedure this is a progress that was made. in europe not everyone has the same story with terrorism . of certain countries have never been affected and will never be all the better

for them but others paid a high price already and so the presidency of the e.u. changes and there are moments when we explain what we need in our tool box which is not taken into account and we wait for the presidency to change in hopes of getting this extra tool. what you sat before the interview when talking about immigration that estonia will never be as concerned as france but for anti-terrorism it's the same there are countries that are targeted more than others of course i understand that but at the end of the day the european union is a one hole so you need to fight that all together when cold solidarity exactly it doesn't help fight terrorism while you have open borders like this so i'm wondering if it possible to elaborate a common plan of fighting against terrorism. of

course yes on the level of the mindset but the fight against terrorism relies on its will that i would qualify as classic surveillance from the intelligence services. intelligence and the lisbon treaty reminded us of the us raises the issue of the sovereignty of each state what does this mean that there will never be european intelligence service or it will be empty or else the treaties must be changed in that the main intelligence is based on bilateralism today this does not mean that we do not give operational or analytical information at a european level of course we do. means we come together the club. they steria services they have that's who we try to bring forward all of this and intelligence service cannot give out its family jewels within a european palace so simply. miscall

you think that since this is such a major issue that it is time to change it treaties in the approach. the buzz rightly joyleen the structural and legal base of course. but you must also have european diplomats it actually next only prove it seek to open because the problem is not only a police problem it is also about security and diplomacy and also the evolution yes you have there must be stability and a common vision look at today's problems regarding illegal immigration there is no unanimity of visions however illegal immigrations is starting to destabilize political regimes in certain european countries but hungary italy or any other countries only france is literate of course moles so there is an impulse to

changing the approach to the problem and that reflection is also far from unanimous between salvini and emanuel. occurrence does not flow freely angela merkel had the lead on a european level today this problem of illegal immigration has blown a hole in her ship so these are subjects that are of course external the common in europe but which have a direct impact on the electoral stability of each country so we will see how things will unfold what will. yeah apart from here of there's also america there is russia everyone is faced with this problem can all build a wall like mr trump. want but nevertheless when the washington moscow relationship was already in tatters sanctions were flung around and everything has a russian security intelligence services top brass went to the united states to

meet with their american counterparts despite the personal sanctions so sure that eve need be to conflate the two sides can still benefit from talking to each other . this is what i'm telling you that is on one hand it is mississippi on the other hand we do not want to show it it is done in a fairly confidential way the intelligence services who are trusting the intelligence services are actually. right after minister of foreign affairs you're kind of doing what the minister of foreign affairs couldn't do. but we work together with the ministry of foreign affairs which transmits all that said bits of information that are brought forth that might be of concern to them and even better and it happened to me personally often when i went to see my foreign counterparts i would always go visit our ambassador in that country and transmit fresh analysis to

the embassy so one diplomacy fails that's her secret service has come into play very good. especially useful when two countries no longer talk to you gary caldwell with the russians to. trust we have a good relationship on that ceteris part. friends as a lot of chechens who have historically requested political asylum here and we also have people who within that community or q so they can create problems and who we found at something terrorism acts in moscow and we were able to exchange. we were able to carry out procedures and through international commissions we were able to help the russians songs. square seanie same very much for the century and good luck.

for chinese dominance going forward not only is a technology venture capital but they've been buying gold by hundreds and hundreds of tons as is russia so they understand that only keep money that you're willing to lose the chinese government's message to the people is only cheap money and fear that you're willing to lose chinese people chinese government tells our people the chinese elite are buying gold by the ton hundreds of tons hundreds of hundred tons but they know that the money inflationary spiral is upon.

us i live the good yourself and. we have many things in this world this is you know. why some peoples also take our things all the power just for damn self. i am not terrorist i am not that it is.

these days that matter where you are in the world the chances are you're being watched. if you strike anywhere. and if you won't see it coming. in are you there in case of caucus monks here you had been given a license to kill the villages villages the houses the mud houses the bomb and sometimes the terrorists and then you see he is alive so who have to kill. children for country for profit.

smile. ministries police forces and city administrations of many countries depend on one corporation. this is how the guns are not. proprietary software you don't know isn't that such a security risk when you have a black box operating. the public eye to microsoft's dependency puts governments under cyber threat and not only that some think off message put us in more than that so we call softness of the essence of the zip selling this is also the only one local all the more thought to link to almost all the wall in the midst of all those all of those with all the rules and all this in the arsenals that often

started on with the all business stop and there was listing of all the fun is up and describes in the fine. subscribe to roughly paulson get all rocky content for just twelve euros fifty per month. six talk here in moscow in the headlines this hour a flood of fakes make it on to facebook as an independent test of the sides and so to try to curb misinformation and discovers it far from robust we've got the story coming up as well.