thank you very much for coming on board for the invitation now i know that both the repeal of the abortion ban the repeal of the blasphemy law were major milestones for you personally for your party as well as for your country as a whole but i think to many outsiders the main question is not so much how did i do it but how did it manage to hold out for so long how do you explain it. well it isn't unusual to. church had huge control in the country since independence almost a hundred years ago the church and state were interconnected i suppose because it was a very weak economy quite a backward country and it seems that the new independent routers to close connection with the catholic church for social control. the church had control of health education and specks of life include including advising the government on passing. legislation. restricting the freedom of women

working class people poor people and the it despite all of the control things seem to be moving very very fast in two thousand and fifteen are they became the first country in the world to legalize same sex marriage by a popular load of both and from what i understand it was done by a fairly big margin and i think this is still a very contentious a very divisive issue in the most liberal constituencies and i find. this succession of things very interesting the fact that people would endure same sex marriage before they actually let's say did blasphemy provision or. abortion what is it about arlen. kind of takes things. in very different ration well. twenty fifty a referendum is put to the people but the country has been changing for about

twenty years the catholic church has been in decline less and less people go to church and of course young people are much more progressive from advanced and so the referendum. majority primarily by young people persuading older people and people showed solid. people wanted to affirm tolerance than human people then said well the next is abortion now let me ask you specifically about the blasphemy law i saw people characterize it as medieval but from what i understand it's still a fairly fresh legislation i mean it was passed less than a decade ago the did more detail definition of blasphemy what happened to your country between two thousand and nine and now to produce such a dramatic turnaround because you mentioned that the country has been changing for two decades but it seem to have changed in just the last couple of years. the

political establishment have been very slow to change i mean the ordinary people on the ground have been way ahead on all issues in terms of blasphemy i mean blasphemy has never actually been used nobody has been prosecuted but you are right it was only renewed ten years ago by your previous government and it really shows how out of step. in the last number of years there's been a huge movement of women and young people reflecting a global famine a movement as well that we see in older countries have been pushing the political establishment you know relentlessly on the issue of the abortion rights because ten women a day leave the country and five others were taking abortion on line illegally now you mention that nobody was prosecuted for blasphemy and yet there was an investigation opened into the british comedian stephen fry

a couple of years ago for his questioning of the existence of god on public radio that case was later dropped if it weren't for that failed investigation do you think the question would have been on the ballot this past weekend didn't that provide and necessary. for the social movement to galvanize. itself i think the government was concerned to be seen to be moving in a more progressive direction in terms of separation of church and state which still hasn't happened and they wanted to pick things that were very easy to get past so stephen fry incident you're absolutely correct. case was pushed by. the group the prosecution of cults the iona institute and the place because there wasn't sufficient grounds the fact of it is there means it could be used on it can be used against people who are religious minority religions now arlen's current t.

shirt prime minister. who incidentally comes from the same constituency you do seems to be very fond of the word revolution he's used it after every mark both and i know that you disagree with him on many issues i wonder though what term would you use to describe this avalanche of social changes taking place in your country. the word squiers revolution when you describe. but i think. issue here is my point is that. people have been campaigning on all these issues for many many years and we were bit on abortion rights me now groups have been fighting for forty years for marriage equality so what i would characterize it wasn't quite but certainly yes there was islands of revolutionary change below the surface because this involved. of people campaigning

on the ground knocking on doors every nice to persuade people and it was truly an inspiring thing to be involved and now you previously accused the irish political elites of submitting too much to the catholic church and i think during this interview you suggested that they may have been doing that for political reasons for self-serving reasons as well this society. pushback that you now see in r.l. and how much of it is driven by the opposition to the church and its role within the society and how much of it is political people rebelling against the old ways of doing politics. well i think it's both there's definitely people feel these oppressions very it's very real like if a woman becomes pregnant and has to save money to go abroad and stigma secrecy and shame that's a serious thing and people women were told to be silent about these things for so long so there's been a about these issues young people in particular have led the way in saying no we

will not accept this hypocrisy longer and they've pushed the political establishment at every turn i mean we have to participate and marches we have to break the law in terms of peaceful but political civil disobedience. for example importing abortion and spreading awareness about them just to make the law seem completely redundant and ridiculous so all of those things push the political establishment until they've no choice whatsoever well and yet i think they still try to maneuver the way out of it. talking now about the abortion issue because i thought it was a very interesting case study in both people's participation but also political tactics from what i understand the government didn't have enough conviction she initiated changes itself so it kind of outsourced it to citizens assembly was that

a case of democracy in action or of the country democratic not functioning because supposedly we all elect our leaders you be the conduit of the changes that we want to see rather than outsourcing them no you're you're you're exactly right it was very interesting the government hadn't got the girl on the courage themselves to make the change so they outsource the decision to a ninety nine citizens on it george. actually this turned out to be a rebound in their faces because it proves that ordinary people when they listen to the arguments they decided that actually we change and they actually propose really radical change they actually propose much more than is in the current legislation for example up to twenty two weeks for socio economic reasons twelve weeks from to give no reason whatsoever so this rebound on the government on it made it very difficult for the parliament there was a committee established which i was on to go back to most so we really have to time

the citizens assembly and we also obviously the case of survey for six years ago yesterday a woman who. was being unable to help her they realise from what i understand. her case could only every day result in the in the death of both the child and to this woman was actually having a miscarriage and then couldn't get an abortion and she ended up dying of septicemia so that it. reignited the whole abortion rights movement and galvanized which can happen. in a process of six years in some respects opposite of arland in this regard because the historic ties between the church and the society were broken here very violently by the bolsheviks the soviet union was the first state in the world to legalize abortion russia now has the world's second highest abortion rate.

in my opinion is not something to be a particular proud of and you concerned something like that would happen in our land that abortion will be treated way too casually as almost another form of contraception i think russia has been a bit exceptional though if you compare the figures in other countries where abortion has been made. it's a company. you know fully free contraception that's very accessible for people well then the abortion race remains very well and if you take for example greenland beach if i'm not mistaken has the highest level of our bush and the contraception there is free but the women is still not using them so per capita they still have a pretty high incidence of ok but if you take for example the netherlands which has the lowest abortion rates in the world they have really liberal abortion rights but women don't record to us in art and we have a severe problem because we don't have proper sex education and so young people

don't get access to full information because of the council of churches they can prevent these issues being learnt in school or to school in school and i think it's really important that changes as well well i think we're both with agreed abortion is a woman's drive my contention would be that relying it. comes from a significant personal and public health risks and what i want to ask you is whether you believe that the state while permitting abortion should also do anything to. minimize the incidence of abortion out of public health considerations well abortion is a painful thing so nobody should want to have an abortion or does want to so the government needs to look women wouldn't be using contraception. the point you made about russia being the first country to legalize abortion one hundred years ago is really interesting and it's been something that i've been discussing with people

since i came here because they've raised very similar questions here south and is going this way is going that way maybe all the countries as well and i think it is quite incredible that things can go backwards and you know the right to an abortion company i think is under severe trash in some sense is good also that the bolsheviks did. well to be honest with the i don't think there is any risk to abortion rights here in russia first and foremost because the government understands very well that once you. have to deal with all those major public health implications stemming from illegal abortions in conditions a doesn't want to deal with any of that i would agree with you though the productive. big here in russia primarily because of the concerns that giving women all the control over human reproduction

may have profound implications for society as a whole it does change the institution of family has been no if there is a statistical correlation between abortion rights. abortion rates and the number of single parent usually single mother households. up damaging the women's quest for equality in other areas because it's much more difficult to pursue a high powered political or business career if you have to raise a child all by yourself by giving women all the controls over human interest. don't you think that we undercutting them in other areas for example equality and well. paying for would be. going to some.

of the things that you raised there in terms of child care of course it's very difficult single. mother too. expensive but that doesn't have to be the case you know we could have free childcare the problem is that the well. well we have to take a break now but. in just a few moments stay tuned. because as i live the good stuff and. find. the need no. need to. be done.

we have none of. this is you know. why some people take our things all the power just for themselves. that's geysers financial but they say money the girl. could take it easy this is a central plank support dying abundance kind of problem right now so i stopped.

in twenty four to you know bloody revolution to the demonstrations going from being relatively peaceful political protests to be creasing the violent revolution is always spontaneous or is it just always. pulling you to the former ukrainian president recalls the events of twenty four to . you've invested over five billion dollars to assist ukraine in these another goal that will ensure a secure and prosperous and democratic. welcome back to all the parts with ruth comp injury politician and a member of the irish parliament. just before the break we've been talking about

old those social changes that's happening in your country and what i find interesting is that. there are there is a lot of conversation about national identity both in our land but i know even more so in europe and the united states people rediscover a national identity when they are faced with the changing world around them the irish national identity is very pronounced both domestically and internationally it's represented in culture it's represented another countries do you have any concerns that they irish national identity as we know it will change beyond recognition because of all those social changes or perhaps this is something that you would actually welcome. yeah i don't have any fear that you know our culture such as music and the things that are in and exports in terms of its artistic life in fact hopefully will improve. it will be more representative maybe of men

and women. no i don't of i think the culture that you're talking about let's. we're talking about when the church was in control in the continent well but i'm not sure you can parse this out because i think when people think about our land they also think about family values they think about they work out. they think about many of the immigrants for example in the united states of the irish those things done to be a kind of. very close did. what was swept under the carpet was the negative side of. that if you didn't conform to those like we have a history of where women in particular were pushed away into baby homes where our institutions were now actually overing all of this which is one of the reasons that people have moved away from the catholic church in droves in the last decades

i mean we now before i left the country there were talking about excavating the sites where babies bodies are buried not accounted for in one of these homes and institutions where single mothers people were married to report so people have about against reality where you know the catholic church i mean the pope visited recently. there was massive indifference to his visit so. the image the reality was a lot different you made the point in one of. only because of the more youthful more liberally minded rising up against. the older more conservative establishment. to be observed in other parts of the world with middle aged citizens more conservative. than rebelling against the

liberal political elites what do you make of the political and social changes beyond are allowed for example in the united states or in europe i think there is a feature now if you look at the us where we would have seen the election of. for example bernie sanders who was the democratic candidate that was ousted if you like in favor of clinton but there is a huge interest. in america because people say that the system isn't working for the majority of people. similarly in our land there is. as well where i know the conservatives are in power. threat. there is an interest among young people in the left ideas and the reason is that there are really from a housing crisis certainly an ardent it's the biggest biggest problem that we have . young people are paying the price of. the last ten years.

i'm introducing teachers younger nurses aren't getting paid the same as older people and i think that feeds into what we saw with the referendum on paper much more inclined to challenge you know what's been handed to them now you are a member of a socialist party with a very telling and name solidarity people before profit and you are committed in your own words to you being an economic system where one percent control both political power do you find it realistic though you can alter that economic system . both within your country broadly. well we now have a system whereby it's never been more equal. it's now men and they are men five of the richest people control the saying wealth is three point five billion people i mean that's completely and utterly untenable on most of the wealth

that's a must for the one percent is horrid it's not invested productively in society you know they use tax shelters tax havens. or whatever to hide money. and spend it so we've reached a. dangerous situation on the plumbers whereby all of the well that's been created i think something like eighty percent is just soaked up to the top it means that you know that were taken in you know advanced copy his country's like europe like garlands like the us normal like housing are no longer things that anybody can expect to how exactly so what makes you believe that you can actually change that because it is one thing to abandon a now dated blasphemy law but changing anything where money is involved that i would suppose takes much more effort well obviously that's what i'm fighting for i think we have to make it impossible i think the people in creates the wealth and

our ordinary working people they have we have the talent we have the ingenuity to these things for ourselves with this parasitic lace it's quite interesting visiting moscow and seeing these designer stores what i'm hearing about is the income of people most people is so low they can never attain to buy these products well that's for sure by the end of the same time in defense of moscow i think it must it has also seen a lot of public areas rina way to everyone regardless of their income can enjoy benefit from there are lots of sporting opportunities there also lots of employment opportunities for the people so i'm not sure. draw the. comparison but i want to ask you specifically about the ability of changing the system because arlen gave a name the largest tax avoidance tool in history the irish double the double irish rather which still allows u.s. multinationals to avoid corporate taxation on the u.s.

profits and that is supposed to come to an end in january of two thousand and twenty and i would guess as a global citizen a year with probably. indorsed closing that loophole but as an artist do you think that's a good development for for your country i don't think it's. multinationals of all kinds of but obviously particularly american multinationals are is the basis of our policy i don't think that's a good idea at all. what our government previous governments have done is corporation tax down to twelve percent but these companies don't even pay twelve percent many of them we've discovered pay nothing at all the bigger they are the less they seem to pay so we have companies who do pay corporation tax we've got the likes of apple google facebook who are using art and to pretend

that they generate revenues in aren't and to avoid tax people who pay the price for us are the people all around the world to you know in some of the poorest countries who are been deprived of the bamford's of taxation i would disagree with you that they do not pay any taxes in fact i came across the statistic just the other day that they pay over eighty percent of all irish corporate taxes and they directly employed twenty five percent of the irish labor force can your country afford to lose them because i was suppose that it would come with major detriment to the very same people that you just put it in context i didn't say they pay no tax. i said some of them pay no so obviously there are companies you know supermarket giants after they pay corporation tax to those figures there are behind the scenes details being so we know when we've discovered time we discovered through british and american parliamentary commission and the likes of. the average that's been worked

out by economists isn't anything from three to eight percent is what they're paying they rarely pay twelve and a half. recently how to pay back thirteen and a half billion to the country on our government didn't want to take. the message very interesting. because as you just mentioned in two thousand and sixteen the european commission for competition concluded that apple received illegal state aid from the irish government now owns the government. a range of thirteen billion euros plus interest in unpaid back taxes and yet the irish government is very strongly desisting that presumably because it wants to keep their business. where do you find yourself and are you more strongly with the european commission or well i mean european commission did offer a reason there's

a competition between different capitalist countries and they don't like the fact that are in towns this knock down rights which jeopardizes all the trees in europe so they're making a stand for that reason i think the key point is this. they've now. we have a housing crisis and aren't they are not building public housing social housing or affordable housing that money could be used to solve our housing crisis but we have a government that's saying no because they don't want to send a message that aren't isn't open for business but i've also seen some analysts suggest that the cost of u.s. multinationals leaving. would be my. higher than those billion a year is isn't i mean you can criticize the government all you want but i suppose they're not doing about out of their own private considerations they perhaps believe that the role of those multinational companies are so huge that the country simply. changed yes i represent a constituency where there are

a lot of multinationals in huge industrial parks and i mean i me jobs that we have are welcome but the point is it isn't the case that for example if corporation tax was raised to the level that germany charged it will be double. day leave i don't think so because they're in our in for a reason speaking many of the reasons you know proximity to the marcus so tax isn't the only reason we have to look at is it is it a safe thing to base your whole industrial policy on having low corporation tax not in my view because we're we're close to that now where the british may leave unquote their corporation tax lower than ours trump in america is talking about of course in corporation tax as well so arden's policy isn't sustainable well. have to leave it there i really appreciate your coming over and sharing some of your insights thank you very much. encourage our viewers to keep this conversation going

in our social media pages and i hope to see you again same place same time here on worlds apart. ministries police forces and city administrations. many countries depend on one corporation that does what mike was hoping the board doesn't implement because of god the constructivist was going to drop woods as the fee that he got on into the sea it's just a little blood from proprietary software you don't know the source code isn't that a such a security risk when you have

a black box operating good public good to microsoft dependency puts governments on the cyber threat and not only that you seem to think office can put us in more than that that's what we call selfishness listen to music and sell the newest also the only one local in the will sink to lead to most of the goodness in the world was all of those that's the reason i'm told this is the i still. don't miss the old vision stopping them also stealing only from his up and his cards on the fine. radiance then an american flag flew me out of it three of the nine hundred seventy nine u.s. embassy take a back as washington compares to re-impose all form of factions on iran including and all of them tague.