so much about that particular issue but i do have confidence in all the years at nasa and working both with nasa and with our russian counterparts that they do the right thing and they work pretty well together our countries don't always agree on other things apparently and yet in one space program no detail gets back and during some way i mean they felt like you know they were cooking in the kitchen i mean i suppose that there should be so you might want to sever about it i mean i don't i don't i can't pass judgment on what went on there how they had that problem but i can say this that pretty confident i'm totally confident in our leadership at nasa and i know that they work well with the russian leadership and i think they're not going to let a crew go into space if there are still questions so i'm confident that they know what they're doing and so you know rocket these a very reliable to have them both yeah transport and you know thing many people in russia space and he's if the police a little bit uneasy about the fact that. is already planning next crew into

space in early december if i'm not mistaken to you once after the accident. isn't that a little bit too fast it seems like it would be great but but again i think that we need to trust our experts and nasa is going to be american astronauts on the next one unless they're totally satisfied that it's safe for them to go. they're not going to go and it appears like they feel confident enough that they're going to be ok that the problem they had they understand what it is you know there's there's a difficulty with with not launching as well i mean if you want to be totally safe you don't go anywhere and i don't think that's acceptable i think we need to continue and the difficulty is having the crew up there in orbit that needs to be replaced yes but there's other things there's other measures of things they can do they can repeat they can bring that crew back and they can try to maintain the space station from a distance so it's not i don't think they're doing anything they don't they're not in a tremendous rush. to do this. so i don't think is there should not be anything pushing

them more than that to put them in an uncomfortable situation i don't i don't think that's the case i think they. feel that they're able to launch. they didn't get that less corrupt there because they aborted the launch so they do want to get another another crew up there. but. being around us as much as i have and knowing how they work with their counterparts in russia i they're not going to let anybody go anywhere if they're uncomfortable now you fled the space shuttle columbia last than a year before it disintegrated on a rancher killing all seven crew members and causing more than a two year delay in the shuttle flights was that because technically it was much more difficult to establish the cost of actually been back down that perhaps because the americans were a little bit more recently oh i think it's i think it's i don't think we're necessarily more risk averse i think it just was you have to understand what the

problem was and in this case apparently the russians were able to find identify the problem quickly and say this is our problem we're going to fix it we're good. in the case of losing columbia we had we really didn't know what had happened and it was not clear in fact when the issue came up at first that it was the bre coming off the tank but it was on the way up the bridge came off the tank a struck the wing and put a hole in it we didn't know there was a hole in the wings so until you know we know that we knew the debris came up we don't know what caused the problem so the first thing is to find out what the problem is and once you identify the problem then you have to fix that so it doesn't happen again and in that case with columbia we did redesign the tank we came up with ways to inspect and repair and do these other things we did go down to only two people on the space station was a russian an american we we were at that time normally three and we went down to a lower. of because you can get as many we couldn't support the space station like

we would want to normally we're able to so we went over there with a reduced size and crew while we were trying to fix the problem and we did launch the accident happened in. february of two thousand and three and we did have another launch a year and a half after more or less in the summer of two thousand and five in that in that launch we still had problems we thought everything was fixed but debris continue to come off the tank so it's not for another year although i know the year in between the next one on the russian side the problem is also seem to be a kind of piling up because according to the loss of the rocket was essentially due to human factor here but there was another incident and i'm sure you know about it a whole mysterious hearing on the international bethink show a leak and people speculate all along you know they've been speculating at this point asserting at this point that it was actually drilled yeah in space but i've heard do you think that's still slope in this or is there other enough reason to

suspect something more i think you know i don't i buy you i don't i think before you start accusing i think you need you need some proof or maliciousness i think it's what we're doing is pretty complicated and i think what what the russians have been able to accomplish throughout their program and the americans as well in the other countries that are participated but it's part of our sending people to space is primarily been the u.s. and the russians and so on there's enough there's fission going on between the two sides i don't know between the austrians but i mean politically you know i don't know what the more you know it's a different interview you got to get someone else because the way we was far as like astronauts or cosmonauts we cooperate and get along very well and the scientists and engineers and instructors and the flight directors and everybody else we were all part of one team i think it shows that countries can get along with they have a common goal i think that's one of the benefits of space travel and the of the russians have already afloat that the possibility of sabotage including a member of a crew currently in orbit. do you find that plaza mall now

a crew sabotage on its own spaceship you don't think that i mean it's a crew member why would you do i don't know if that makes sense of all i mean we i'm speculating here but i'm actually repeating one of the former russian cosmonaut who suggested that one possible reason would be i don't know psychological meltdown being homesick want to go back home i don't know i think that's i think a little farfetched don't think i don't think that's credible now i really don't from your own. experience how well monitored this space station is i mean if that indeed happened what they'd be able to kind of go back and the details of what happened have someone get some of their games are still the whole i mean but they are not excluding that he's going to major different i agree with them i think. i don't know i think that. to do to do something like that is a little farfetched and i would be shocked if i mean they still have to investigate only possible i guess this is the first i've heard of that but yeah i don't know

if that's what they're suggesting about it that i haven't heard well i mean on the russian side they're saying that they specifically i think they retrieved one of the parts to see if there if there are any specks of alan minimum there to see if indeed it was drilled in space by that and that's a possible version then all the searching about it i don't know. but you don't think that psychological difficulties could be and no not matter that extreme you know i think it's just as a credible that someone because i'm not a professional cosmonaut or astronaut would do anything like that you're you know the risk of what you're doing safety is foremost the if a condition of your friends on board. a just to me it's i think that's that's. a i can imagine if the case if i understand correctly that capsule where the hole was due. now remains the only escape vehicle for the crew that is now in orbit and

from what i understand it was found to be operational they managed to seal the hole with sort of the wipe but is that enough to give you peace of mind about the safety of that crew well i think i think the soyuz i think the leak was in the orbital module which is not the descent module so they'll use that vehicle bill i think what they'll do is they'll leave the lever that vehicle that part of it in but not certain to be usually entry so in the part that they're in there's no weak when they return so i think that. as it pressurizes as i pick up the atmosphere i think they'll be fine and i think i think whatever the fix that they put on their own he chose the ingenuity of the way they're able to come come around these problems and the guys that were up there i know one of them was one of my crew mates on my second flight to four so was the american commander at the time when they discovered that leak and he's very competent good with

a good mechanically inclined person so i'm guessing he fixed if he was the one to fix it or was part of his crew i'm sure they do as good jobs could be expected i know i'm not worried about him at all i think i think they understand what the problem is i think they have a pretty good fix in place and i think they're going to come home successfully it's been more than two months since that happened yet unlike with the failed rocket launch we haven't heard anything in the way of conclusion of what was at full there . either way it's going to be very embarrassing either for russia or perhaps even for russia and the united states because as you mentioned they're working together they're putting their lives and their people at risk do you expect this incident to have implications beyond this for which one we're talking about the whole thing the whole you know the whole thing i mean the drilling of the hole and drove the hole in a spaceship i mean they're kind of similar because here you do have. even if it's not

the deliberate sabotage you know you blow up and they'll say ask you what you want to talk over which one of you talked about both that's fine no i don't i think that either one is you know these things happen you know people make mistakes and that's why it's a big team and has a lot of checks and and even so this this problem that happened it wasn't caught ahead of time which is surprising usually something like that you would find on the ground that he did it there i don't think they found the right away in space either it took a while for it to show itself and then once they did they put their heads together and came up with a resolution so you know i don't think there's any embarrassment here i don't think people are trying to do things on on purpose to to make things go wrong i think people are generally trying to do the best they can for the crew and for the countries involved and for the world of exploration is important to a lot of people particularly those working there and i what i found with the workers that i've encountered whether they're from any of our countries and it's a net international program we have the the modules of the space station were were

built in italy by the european space agency in the linea the robot arm was built in canada the the japanese experiment module the sperm a module was built in japan we have the european space agency module the columbus module that of course all the segments that were built and in russia. and all the people there all those workers are trying to do their best and i'm sure norm feels worse than the person who is responsible for creating that hole and i'm sure they know about it well mike we have to take a very short break now but we will be back in just a few moments thanks. since

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back to worlds apart and mike massimino former us ostinato at the faster mechanical engineering at columbia university mike you often talk about russia in the united states successfully call parading in space but that cooperation may come to an end next year because the current contract between us and nasa is expiring and as of now there are no talks that have been announced that please to replace or to renew the contract how do you feel about it if it all and i hope i hope it doesn't i don't know the status of the contract on or i mean there was nasa for a few years so i don't know what what the state of my working on that but i would i would think there would be a pity because i think in space we've cooperated very well i think the international space station which was launched i was coming up on coming up on

twenty years of the first on the launch i was in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight and on that mission it was critical of a russian was on board with with american astronauts and they launched the elements for a launch in russia first in the united states on the space shuttle was surrogate so that's pretty momentous the first elements launched into space and put together a russian piece in the united states piece and before that we were working on the shuttle mir program or an american astronauts for visiting mir and we had cosmonauts flying on the space shuttle so this is going on for a long time it hasn't just been recently and when we had our own we had our accident and we had the shuttle accident we knew we were still going to be able to send astronauts to space because we had. the soyuz vehicle in our partnership with russia and now that. where we don't use the spatial any longer we've been getting our astronauts to space the only way to get there has been with the with the russian soyuz so well i think it's been a very good relationship and i hope it continues nasa is currently you're relying

on a boeing in space x. to revive ability to fly to the station and both of them plotted to fly their test chris next year if those test a successful holiday thing it may take for those flights to become regular and my hope is the hope is fairly quickly and we'll have to see how it goes i know they have to live up here why don't i don't know what they're they're i don't they're not going to rush things right as as you know you people if you if you if you delay things. people will tend to remember that less than they will if something goes drastically wrong you know if for example the the first element launches of the space station were delayed and some of the murder but over the years you tend to catch up in people don't remember the delays as much but if you have an accident you're asking me about yes really about the cliff that's a different story people always remember that so you don't want that to happen so i

think once those vehicles are ready i think they'll be really thought ready for it really sort of a nasa has got crews picked out here in training and getting ready to go i would hope that those go well and they were able to routinely get people up there with the space x. and with the boeing vehicle and i would also like to see the soyuz remain as a option as well for for cosmonauts or whoever's flying on that vehicle to go up so i think it's always good to have more than one option. i think we've been fairly fortunate in the last couple years even though we haven't had to shut the shuttle stop we've had the soyuz so we've had a way to get there but i think we're in better better position when you have two vehicles that you can that the countries can cooperate all use today and they can provide a safety option to yes fred it's a good way to do it so you're down to one this is yours you know we were talking earlier if the soyuz has an issue in. you can't you don't you're really stuck because there's no other way to get there right now but hopefully these other vehicles come along and give you know their options if there is test the successful do you thing and the americans would be just as open to ferrying the the russians

on to the station as the russians have been i think so yeah i mean it's been i would i would imagine they would be you probably want to ask one of the one of the leaders there but we had russian cosmonauts flying the shuttle fairly regularly there was a time before the accident when we were exchanging crews with the shuttle as well as with the with the soyuz and many of the crews who would would fly the way there was however many it's three was always three it was a mix of russian american and also don't forget our international partners. shots from canada japan and from the countries of europe would fly as well and they would fly up on the shuttle and come back and do the russian cosmonauts would would trade with us in houston and our crews were training with them over and russia so i don't see what i mean i don't know i have not sure what the policy makers are going to do or how that's going to work but i would imagine it would be a nice option to be able to show spaceships again i heard you say that nasa these

days cannot afford to do all the things that they used to do in the past for example pursue huge national goals like let's say a polar and in one thousand sixty's not as bad budget that was around four or five billion dollars annually now it's around twenty billion overstimulation there's very little question but certain technologies also got my cheaper than they used to . i mean massive budget at this point of time is i think ten times higher than the russian space budget or why is it still not enough for nasa to do i think i think nasa has been i think they're pursuing both things i think that. i think ness is i think nasa has been supported fairly well with their with their budget i don't you know it's just like anything else i think any other country america as familiar i'm not really familiar with our country but i am somewhat familiar with our country's budget and that's really all the parts of the world but in general you're always concerned about how much money you have to spend on things and just like how

to hold your home right what are you going to spend your money on and that's the decisions that our country has to make that our leaders of our country in the people as well so having said that i think that the space program has been given a certain piece of that of that budget that has been fairly healthy over the years just as we've been able to build the space station we've been able to send probes to mars and beyond the solar system and done this great great research of the different facilities and cooperate with these other countries are we including russia so i think it's been a very successful program funded funded at a fairly healthy level to keep it going now is it because you always want more money yes absolutely we always we always want more so that's what everybody would say you could always use a little bit more but i think for what they've had for the budget i think they've done fairly well and i think the exciting thing that we have happening now throughout the world is that we have some of the private companies starting to play

a bigger role and that's why i think something to look forward to to supplement what nasa is doing i heard you saying in one of the interviews that the current moment reminds the you all via a hundred here is a goal while the military and state are paved the way to mathematics bit for that to happen i assume the cost of flying into space will kept to come down create a demand obvious i mean it's very expensive right now but the price of things has dropped dramatically already the access let's say is dropped for example so my students at columbia proposing to fly things on whether they have opportunities to fly things to the space station on a. on the american vehicle but also there there's up a series of fly things in space blue arjan is one of the companies in america that is offering these services and they're affordable even for student groups who still need some money but it's not the tremendous cost of flying experiments back you know when i was a student twenty thirty years ago it was crazy you're it was so expensive that to

fly a flight experiment was nearly impossible now there's there's access so it's still expensive to get to space but now because of all the countries participating and with this privatization i think the access to space has improved but it's still within the range of sixty eighty million dollars per seat on a space ship do you just send a person yes absolutely do you think you will actually that's where the lives prices but that sounds rather yes i don't know but but that's that's a different i don't know what the private companies are going to be charging i don't think it's going to be that high and even if it's a fraction of that it's still high so it's not going to be for everyone to be able to afford it but i think it's going to open at first it's going to open up opportunities for other governments other countries that have not had a person in space they don't have to build all the infrastructure they can find a way to send one of their people on one of the private vehicles and for companies as well that want to send one of their employees to do research or for research or

who is funded to do that it's going to require a lot of money but i think what that will do is start to build up more and more experiences in just like you know other things as you mentioned other things that were considered to be luxury items let's say and in lot of cases. over time the only way we're going to be successful is more people can afford them so i think the price will be it will come down i would it has to or else it's it's not can be viable you often cite apollo eleven as an inspiration for your own career you write a lot about it in your book. we have seen both russia and the united states and now with plans to go to the moon only to abandon them later why do you think it's proving third difficult for either of these countries to repeat that yeah it's not so hard it's. to get to these places i think the difference now is that when we went back in in one thousand nine hundred sixty nine in the early one nine hundred seventy s. it was basically to go there take some samples and come back we weren't staying there and that's a difference a big difference if you look at exploration. and say a little over

a hundred years ago explorers were exploring the poles the north koreans of the north pole getting to the south pole and when they got to the antartica to the to the continent you know there are ok let's go home anybody really didn't set anything up for another fifty years so i think usually with exploration it seems that the first pioneers that go the first explorers go check it out show that it's possible and then they come home because you're not really ready to set up any infrastructure and stay so i think the difference now when we go to the moon i do think we'll be heading back to the moon whatever that model is whether it's jointly with whatever countries or companies or wherever is going to go i think it's going to be a different situation and it's there that requires a little more thought a little more resources and of a plan to actually go there and stay for a while and i think that's what will happen next let me ask you one more question about your book because you talk a lot there about pursuing a dream and never giving up and i think your life in korea are a good example of that but many people these get tired of bad dreams i wonder if

you were it felt exhausted by the feel that you have chosen all the time no. you know what i don't know why. i think it's important to do something that you're passionate about and. even you know you may not think you can do that and i didn't think there was any chance of me becoming an astronaut but i really that's what i was passionate about and i wanted to at least try to sort of this if you're trying i think that's ok doesn't always work out but i think the thing you can't control is your is your effort and you can control what you're trying to do and it may not work out but it might and the but i think important to try to control what you do so i think it is important whatever it is you're interested in general for people if you if you have that passion if you have something you think is really interesting but you think it might not be possible that doesn't matter just just give it a try and you never know where you might end up you are fifty six year old years

old right now do you still dream about things you want to pursue yeah a few more years left i think so i'd like to do you know i mean i know you mentioned a book i am. in the process of writing a younger version of that for younger readers and hopefully there's another book and play as well i really enjoy my teaching at columbia i've been doing that for a few years now but i think i'm just starting to get used to it and there's always something new in that you want to really like to do more in television i've done a little bit but i think i would like to be more involved with a television programme about science and engineering i've done some of those i've done some hosting i've done some guest spots but it's all on mother earth nothing up there oh i would like to go back as a tourist yes i want to go back as if you have enough money but i know i want to go back as a friend if i do you said a dream now it doesn't matter i don't have the money no i don't need to come back. but i want to go i want to go as a tourist i can complain about the service i want to go like i'm on an airline and i want to complain because when you're in space you're always working so i want to

go up there relax and complain i would love to fly in space again and hopefully the price will come down where it's affordable and anybody who wants to go and i don't know if that will happen in my lifetime but i would love to go back well i wish you best of luck in that direction your sense thank you very much for sharing some up here and had it at you bet my pleasure i'm going. our viewers to keep this conversation going our social media pages out hope to see you again same place same time here while the party of. god. what politicians do you shop to. put themselves on

a lot. to get accepted or rejected. so when you're one of the first injury. or some who want to be rich. but you'd like to be close to see what the forty three of them all can't be good. interested always in the waters of the out. there shouldn't. ministries police forces and city administrations of many countries depend on one corporation that does what mike was hoping to avoid doesn't come from the eyes of god i'm stumped just adama's got a gun to go through the. woods as that somebody got into this it's just a proprietary software you don't know the source code isn't that such a security risk when you have a black box operating in the public eye to microsoft's dependency puts governments on to cyber threats not only that some seem to think off message and put it more.

often so this is the easy sell in the sense of only one. thing to most of the world to the. problems with the police and all this in the us. well they still hadn't done. the old vision stop and there was a student who was a fun is up in these crowds in the sun. joining me everything on the alex simon chill and i'll be speaking to us of the world of politics small business i'm show business i'll see you then.

mayhem following this week's elections president trump blushes up the media blaming it for division in the us also ahead this hour. that. left wing protesters target fox news anchor took her carlson chanting threats side his home and. they all sit in the german city of hamburg where an empty migrant rally is meant

with a heated counter protest just.