to fix the broken. one more turn grady work of those in the shadows who are bringing the pieces together is often ignored and officials take the credit but not today i talked to a french businessman who takes no glory in saving lives and in conflict shown here expert in peril diplomacy chairman of brazzaville foundation is my guest today. with international mediation politicians and career diplomats feel to it conflicts come into play working quietly as private citizens out of the spotlight growing

mistrust and blood feuds patiently bringing warring parties to the table why does parallel citizen diplomacy work with. other people willing to work in the show those with the promise of nobel peace prizes or t.v. and they get the job done. thank you very much for being with us today thank you for everything. to be in such an interesting profession i want to know all about it so you are a noted negotiator lots of success stories in africa i know that you're now trying to get sites in libya to sit down and talk i mean in a way you're more successful than the united nations at least you're getting these guys to sit down and talk. exist with you the issues as you would need united nations but also somewhere somehow i needed those or it's a combination of two forces which. working palate so you are right now

talking about putting down the barriers of mistrust in libya but those barriers are where actually put up way before you and for the reasons that are beyond you what makes you think that an outsider can bring them down. first on the. knowledge of the country and i know as a country. since my first trip to libya was and then sixty nine. and better also so he spect was a condition and is always a completely leaves and. going to one. while it all easy to show off i think where all countries affecting over libya why not give the. pussy to it to exist as a voice and to jointly express what they would like to do is

a home country she's my aim is not to make peace east to p. eight. the fundamentals to create. for. peace this is what i'm trying to do so what kind of effort do you have to make to actually bring this people together in the same room must. class is always the big word yes it should be when but it's essential what they have done fully by for example is a following. a tie to look i don't the five. is a general scope of politically. two extremes of the scope and i for i found bishop was aides and very close to. their feet and their large ability belhaj was formed it was thought but to fight has got to fit him since he has years of seventy

so. and those are the two weeks or so as a someone who uses it will never talk together because. one accusing the other of. the worst sinks and. so i put them together how how by convincing them that their meeting will be not to discuss. the past and what these won't but do see what they have in common what they want for sleep in common what is that point of conventions as far as he has gone. is concerned and the knowing is a point of difference also a point where they don't take me on and it happens. of course you accept any city by their own people or as a people of a follow else how can you meet can you see to bellagio can you see be sure sonny but films that meeting. ziad agree on very simple principle about the future of

libya. gazer to should be one country should be a civilian government should be an army will respond to civilian government so this should be an independent judiciary because this is something that's what i'm saying like this is something that international diplomats have been trying to do forever and you're just saying you know i convinced both sides that they shouldn't talk about the past just talk about the future and a common goal of libya this is a very simple straightforward formula that other diplomats use as well i still don't understand how it works out when you come in a dozen when other diplomats to you must have a key that others don't know what is that key thing they ever keep the one they have a past twenty years them some kind of guarantees what. of course not so there's no guarantee you could have. a hand at the beginning it was a combative left shows that are after five minutes no problem is. once you have

once you are not an institution when you are not a government. your voice is your voice it belongs to you and even. in your voice zen people accept to do seems they would not accept was a situation with. a difference between diplomacy and official diplomacy. the office of diplomacy is one like everybody talks the same way nobody can have as an individual opinion they have to express what is it. if you let me i am not bound to say that i can i can have i can do what i want when i want and people believe as close to me. just one example in south africa i stopped the dialogues between white and black by

an exchange of prisoners. or than sixty people. five country times five complaints for. access to places in the. muslim baek it to a very small sleep everything went right not one document was site so he's not the best bet which has been site everybody rife with because of this was it claims to be put back as a back of the president's everybody believes that it should be issued that i have at that time and be part of that. not one people. and that it was involving major country like hamas or south africa. mozambique so i wonder if it always goes down so it's most i had a friend an american friend who was working at the fall of apartheid in south

africa just like you and he was telling me you know every time he's in the conflict resolution as well and he was how we know every time i go for a new job i have this feeling that i know what to do i know how to fix said i know it better and after three years of being there he was like you just fall into this state where you understand you don't know anything and you probably will never understand anything do you ever get that feeling when you go to a new conflict to a new country where you feel like i know it i'm going to do this and then you're on the ground and you're trying to do your job trying trying trying and then at the end of the day you like i just don't understand anything in probably never will you were talking about success. so it's good i had some success but they were all i had also failure. i had big failure i tried to fix other conflicts which i didn't succeed. so of course i am. my success

but why is to give a chance to to the to peace to give a chance to peace doesn't mean that you get on things that you would bring peace but at least you give a chance to achieve peace this is what i'm going to try to do with no guarantees that i would succeed so i am much more courageous and much more ambitious than if i am seeking ways and i'm going to succeed or not she's not my issue i am not sinking what are the chance what does a statistic one thousand really does for me to succeed and not interested i just say childlike do i have enough elements in my hands to try to bring peace. do i have elements here. are my going to put them aside i'm not doing what they want no of course not i go for it this is their s. life danger at any point in your line of work where you feel like sense of

superiority here i am white man from the land of perspired in peace i come to you party squabbling our solve your pain because i know better does it ever get that feeling because it's dangerous there's a there's a fine line when you have so much power and trust. in your hands and you can make the processes move you can get that sense you can yeah sure i don't you don't have i am very as i don't. sure of what i'm doing that i am as i am present. tense i don't know the world in the english i'm sorry as i doubt about what i am doing just a feeling of superiority can never. because if i doubt that means that they don't have a sense of superiority. and i never go is a sense of and people know that you know we are dealing with men we are dealing

with human and sometimes we have to put two sides of paper and document. z. explain the. whole explain the issues. to to get. also a human side in the piece because everybody one. people who. is a muslim to be the most wired cock there somewhere somehow was hoping for peace and want peace is it easy even it out of your body i think maybe something given worst and sense of security that a lot of big powers get while they're going in conflicts ignorance because right now we see a lot of politicians. they don't have the understanding of the region when they actually act in that region they don't know the complexity of the fragility of the places that they affect for instance i remember president obama saying that not

lack of planning in libya was probably one of the biggest mistakes of his presidency just recently norway admitted having no idea what they were doing when they send their claims to bomb libya and we see that happening actually a lot where does this i'm a tour approach come from money shoot the elected leaders be sent to some mandatory job or to political lessons about the world because this happens all the time. you know when you when you start to do something and it's valid for government or individuals don't try to don't. seem twice before you. even need to bad and you replace it by the worse and unfortunately what's happened more and more in the past you you you want to change it to take off of good take of the bad but you replace it by something less of the bad you have taking off and for me of course how can you avoid that you avoid it

by the conciliation z.z.z. . because when when you leave a conflict by keating another conflict when you win you. over solutions by creating another defeat you fail but when you deal with the issue with when. you see it's years of people that bought dearly wants to build a future together then you are avoiding. a place to go from bad to worse surely there we're going to take a short break right now while we come back we'll continue talking about harold the promising what is it and is it more effective beneficial the promises stay with us .

to. join me every first week on the alex salmond sure i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then. ministry's police forces and city administrations of many countries depend on one corporation that doesn't like was hoping one of the board doesn't come from what the president is out of this is not the guns it's not. into the sea it's just a proprietary software you don't know the source code isn't that such a security risk when you have a black box operating the public i think microsoft dependency puts governments

under cyber threat and not only that. more. and we're back with yet expert. and the chairman foundation. i remember you expressing your opinion in the early times of the syrian conflict

escalation you were about wrote about wars of good versus evil. that was you write that you know they said that this is led by us and they can longer force on everyone because balance of power is shifting so i always think of why does the united states still go over and over again for the same strategy of fighting the black and white good versus evil war when it has brought all his lee so much misery to the world and to themselves in the first place why. question. no i. will worse. we have to be very worried. that you we by taking something bad will be placings by subsidy given

us and this story as prove that some of the actions taken by this one those. have been the placing something by by something event with us. we leave that to the twentieth century and. those mistakes because while as you said about president obama they were not planning after what do we do after how out and for me i am taking this afternoon as a very fundamental bass. after has to be a consideration is it is a consideration they can be a change of opinion it can be democracy at last i'm not talking about western democracy or eastern democracy or specific little possibility of the ability of the people to decide of their own future that can be only be done. evil hate considerations will cure and that it is here so you just mentioned earlier in the

into that peril the promise in official diplomacy it's pyro because they go without crossing pass so that means that you're not part of the system right the official system there that this stablish meanwhile when you do your job as a diplomat and a lot of your success stories in the african period they were tied to to how they were tied to shock so you kind of are in the system or are you completely not part of the system. after certain moments it's time for the system to take over. that's for sure i am. i am not here to make peace i am here to facilitate peace. is going to make peace is either secure because you need twenty agreement it's one which i am not thinkable to to take so yes or certain moment there is let's say if.

some people accept it some countries accept it there is a like of communication and. a takeover by country of two brings everything to lose if in the finality when i did so because i feel that which led to the independence of namibia and for the first time as a cuban and the american was sitting at the same table with together with a south african and younger than it was i have so the political has been signed. it was taken by the un and there was a big show. in the un for the signing of the agreement i was not even invited i want to invent it nobody invited me when they all know that i was initiated this is because this time at a certain moment the official take over and i don't pretend that i can replace what is off the show of course not i am not here to the place anybody i am not here to

to do. to i am here to help to assist not to replace did the official diplomats listen to your advice as an outsider or do they really try to shut you down because it's competition then we have to go back to the human nature i have extolled the need for friends with our diplomats and zander said what i do and prove what it. of course. they belong to as i said feeling. myself probably not but then again it's not white and black it's i have very good friends we have diplomats they had. and they have no problem with them because it is really allies that i bring some seeing. of the progress but of course it is situation we don't like me maybe they don't like successes or has have your political convictions or i don't know moral convictions

ever get in the way of doing the job as a in peril diplomacy for instance this guy i cannot talk to that want to talk to or whatever you feel personally is always irrelevant if you have to make peace and make people reconcile. it is not one person in the planet has so little if you sort of course never one. as criminally can be i will accept if he is a d. to talk about peace i will talk to him of course in the beginning of the interview set that i bring fighting sides to one table because there is trust you know i they trust me and they trust that you know with they come together it's going to be for the better of the common cause does this always work how do you make people who are not willing to reconcile change their mind or this is only work when they

actually do want to negotiate the side you see this is a tactic between records. when i did i did the first conference which is in may in the car which is called now that i won because hopefully we are going to have a dugout to. i did vitals people said i didn't know who are the people but i have done is i went to beijing i went to a billet village and i said peace convince your friends to come to the conference so exam. and been convincing their friends to come to the conference so i was not exposed as a person the test was. jumping jumping from one person to the other but at the end of this way also. because if i would have been the one who would be travelling with my legs and going to to see the people i want to invade to convince maybe i

would not have succeeded because it dawned on me send a verse of me there who is white man in the new libyan conflict as you say. but if i am using somebody was done by so. that's a different push this is something which is you don't very briefly when i started to be interested in africa i had a chance i was very young i was twenty i was every i was invited for dinner by a very fantastic man we were president of a. very close call who fled with me and he invited me to have a lunch and he was listening to me and i was interested in going to tell him what i want to do in africa and our interest in africa was and as the end of the dinner he said you are interested with africa i am going to give you only one advice only one never enter an african village if you are not accompanied by somebody who is known by the village. and they have apply. all my life.

at the beginning is never given by myself is given by somebody who has a test of a person. and it works so i realize that there are no guarantees of any kind of anything when you get two people when you get people in the same room that have been killing each other for such a long time so it's a big deal that they sit down but what is the success rate usually those people who have been feuding for so long ok they're in the same room what is the success rate after they start talking have you i'm sure you've. already there in your personal theory i don't i don't count ok but let me tell you something. dialogue is a most essential thing because that means that even if accepted to meet. it has

been a patient it was a meeting is not is not. no idea what they're going to discuss your bed so india actually india is a dialogue has been established between them. most of the time for me so. they don't. have before they meet. evaluated appreciative. that it was going to be very be very sour and i was a relief but. i never experienced. a moment where i put two parties together and no one is left never explained that they might not and. it did happen in the car one when after missing. i mean delegates. accepted to be on the plane that charter i've been that guy but when this all was

going to be their homes i said no we cannot sit there with the same people in the left so. ways that. i never experimented but do you know like gestures words that are it already like signal to you that there's going to be a deal here do you feel your stance or are this like a center for ages and is when you're intervene. you know you're not. he manes as long as it is not. beginning or slight of conflict your positions then yes you have to intervene and calm down and tell people that geez what do you mean this is what the. generals that they maybe you you can match and. you feel it you. knew you feel at the time you you sure you should. intervene yes when you work on

a complicated conflict like syria and if not then what would your advice people to do that no i would never work on two conflicts syria because unfortunately syria is going to be young people of syria of syria. i still believe that in libya yes not yet live and where it goes beyond the people of. the people of syria is a poor people who doesn't i mean it's. so. what will be my role to do to have syrian government. there's a u.s. government i don't. and i don't have the keys and. i cannot and that is a given i don't i'm not following so since well good luck in the cases that you are involved and sure they're going to be successful and the can since you have

undertaken thank you much but this is thank you very much it's been a pleasure it was been a pleasure for me to. both the republicans and democrats claim victory in the wake of the midterm elections but it seems the election settled little if anything now there is a dueling investigation warfare gridlock on steroids is this what the voters voted for. in twenty forty you know

bloody revolution to crush the demonstrations going from being relatively peaceful political protests to be increasingly violent revolution is always spontaneous or is it just always i mean your list put me in the. school and you go to the former ukrainian president rick. the events of twenty four g. and. those who took. it invested over five billion dollars to assist ukraine in these and other goals that will ensure a secure and prosperous and democratic. form a. little. bit of a look. at least. with up. not

what are. the headlines here on our two international more divisions emerge in the u.s. media this time over video of a c.n.n. reporter released by the white house some accuse the journalist of an attack while others say the material hasn't been doctored. white women in texas facing accusations of betraying feminist values after a majority cast their midterm votes in favor of the state's republican candidate. i'm very tired of being castigated as some sort of racist simply based on my skin color or you who interests are you represent your only as a white woman representing the best interests of other white women and we absolutely.