three of the end of the first world war french president emmanuel mccrone claimed patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism this is widely seen as a criticism of donald trump after all trump calls himself a nationalist is nationalism a dirty word to. cross talking nationalism i'm joined by my guest john laughlin in strasburg he's a lecturer in political philosophy and isis the catholic university in new york we have george samuel he is a fellow at the global policy institute of london and author of bombs for peace and in our burn we have rockwell he is a political commentator and editor of lew rockwell dot com all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want i always appreciate john let me go to you first but i'd like to quote i guess the aspiring sun king of europe there are no other well known as the president of france mccrone

he said this patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism national him is a betrayal of patriotism and i'd also like to throw in another quote that he said earlier this year when he was a candidate which absolutely stunned me still does quote as candidate there is no such thing as french culture what is this man talking about john. or whenever i hear michael i'm always reminded of remark about someone who said. deep down he's very superficial and that's true of my core every time we have mrs melt he seems to conquer new heights of mediocrity but i was also reminded of another french leader charles de gaulle who of course made a famous appeal to his country on the eighteenth of june one hundred forty is often forgotten that winston churchill made in the pill on that same day he'd given a speech in the house of commons and he went to the b.b.c. to broadcast the words of the speech and that speech was his finest hour speech and both men churchill and the goal in calling for. the water continue against nazi

imperialism drew as explicitly and as emotionally as they possibly could for national pride and national sentiment churchill recalled britain's great island story france a goal of course recalled france's glory and so on and this idea of mccall's that patriotism and nationalism are somehow different is a complete lie etymologically the word to mean the same thing patriotism means your fatherland party in french your nation nationalism nation is comes from the word net her to be born so there were two words are intimately linked in their meaning and in their at an atom ology and the people who say that they are somehow separate are themselves betraying patriotism or obviously if they don't they don't know much history and they don't know much about words apparently you know you know george the real point of that that very shallow speech was number one a direct jab at donald trump but also it is

a defense of the indefensible in my opinion and that is the continuation of globalism which people are rejecting left to end right so he used he used this very . sacred event and he turned it into something a political a bumper sticker for globalism go ahead george. yes that's right and this is been a theme of french foreign policy for a while i mean if one goes of going back to really for quite a long time which is that the european union is the antithesis of nationalism that somehow what we're about is the opposite of the nationalist and you during the one nine hundred ninety s. the french leaders would define themselves define european values as the opposite

of these terrible nationalist in the balkans and so and particularly they defined the serbs as being their enemy because the serbs were nationalists whereas the french and the europeans the sophisticated europeans have moved on from that and now take on this transnationalism globalism but of course as you say the people are rejecting that and it is clear that the rossa such a thing has nations and what's very important and we see this of the leaders of poles of the czechs is that they want to retain their national identity they don't want to be somehow lost in some kind of a. tray you know transnational melting pot and so therefore macro who at

times seemed as if he understood this has gone back to a kind of this nonsensical idea that well nations are just a thing of the past you know they're the things that cause two world wars and then we have to move on to something called european values which will trans national values will durant of course if. it is not going on now it's nonsensical because these elites don't care about their own country. they fit get that the voters do ok that's how that's how far apart they are from people you know lou here i mean i don't want to give a history lection the election because i used to teach european history in the united states but you need a form of nationalism to create a nation state and to maintain it what the critics of these and these people are low octane thinkers for sure because they really don't know what they're talking about here is that they want to point to extreme forms of add no

nationalism which no one on this program within ever endorse but for them it's this one quick leap from being caring about your nation caring about your people and your culture and your traditions if you're just one step away from auschwitz that is a historical thinking go ahead lou. well i'm mccrone of course he says that nationalism means hating other nations but of course he's the one who actually hates poland and shut up when the czech republican and hungary and he's he's he doesn't either he doesn't understand my guess is he doesn't understand that nations are normal their natural love of one's country is natural. and and these are made basically language communities nations and so the attempt to bring in all the muslims into europe and to abolish the language community is very very

damaging it's actually crazy and of course the countries in the ease don't want the muslims they don't want these people who don't speak their language don't share their culture and want to actually destroy their culture and their nation so mccrone is the enemy of europe i notice that the european values means getting rid of europe getting rid of the indigenous peoples of europe so it's just a liar and i think i was glad that trump took him down and he's are in his responses but mccrone is i would say the enemy of everything decent in europe he's the enemy of the french people and the french culture from there of course of course the something called french culture is the french nation and. he's the enemy so i think we always have to keep that in mind about him about about merkel and these people enemies of the european market as a spent force that's maybe why mccrone is trying to make a bid to be the sun king of europe i don't know john you were nodding your head go

ahead. well i mean he reminds me of the hit the scene in downfall that everyone as they imitated on you tube yeah where you know hitler finally realizes that the enemy is in berlin because frankly if you look around the world everybody now has turned to a more nationalistic policy not just the american ited states of america under trump but also of course china india countries within the european union brazil you know they'll soon only be matt coin miracle left or not even merkel and in any case the german position on this is of course very interesting because german national identity has traditionally been expressed in the form of an empire constitutionally speaking whereas french and british and other identities have been expressed in the form of a nation state. and german. politics when it comes to europe is not short of the caricature of nationalism which enemies of

patriots sometimes like to portray what i mean by that is that the germans feel very happy in this greater germany which is the european union they feel feel very happy controlling the european union as they do controlling all the major organizations of the european union the controlling all the parties in the political parliament because that indeed corresponds to the national model and of course it was against german imperialism not german nationalism it was against german imperialism that two world wars were fought you know george i mean what i find the other thing i found very strange about macross speech is that he is obviously against national and somebody that he's talking about kind of be you and that he specifically but around people around him or europe or new european empire that is militarized i mean what's going on with that ok because did anybody it was

anyone asked to vote in the e.u. about such a policy or is it just ordained from above like everything else in the e.u. go ahead george. yes that is interesting however. if that's not necessarily a terrible idea i don't think the guy who i think i agree with you reading your mind all across the around the world i know what you're getting at are you talking about need to keep going george. right right well and there i think it's very interesting that trump who who really was the sort of the leader of the sort of global nationalist movement. immediately responded in the traditional trump our us washington foreign policy think way which is oh my god this is the worst thing ever there can be nothing outside of nato nato is the be all and end all of all a security in the world and how dare the french caribbean crowd side the box

because don't they remember that we had to save them for in two world wars and so on and you would have thought trump who has been complaining about this huge burden of the defending the europeans when they're not doing anything themselves you think trying to get out to say hey you know that's not a bad idea i think i like this idea of europeans doing more and said oh no the heaven forbid the last thing he was. are you lou real quickly probably go to the break here if that was all about nato twenty seconds before we go to the break go ahead lou well of course the u.s. occupies europe it's not defending europe and it's this is all a fraud and trump wants more money from the europeans to be occupied by the u.s. i hope they don't give it to us ok i'm going to jump in here gentlemen we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on nationalism state with our.

dollars. dollars. dollars. i'm outta dollars a dollar here's what i believe. we got carried away here we care the music with us . we are you know we were dragged here. by you know going to get rid of those who are not go away who will not die quietly. real the heart of what we do is the truth.

join me every thursday on the alex simon chill and i'll be speaking to us of the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then. nobody could see coming that false confession this would be that profile in the spot place the fourth of march if you had any interrogations out there what you'll see is trip promise threat promise threat lie a lie a lie the process of interrogation is designed to put people in just that frame of mind make the most comfortable make them want to get out and don't take no for an answer don't accept their denials she said therefore which. sat on a statement that i would be home by that time the next day there's a culture on accountability and police officers know that they can engage in misconduct that has nothing to do with solving their crime.

shows seemed wrong. when all the rules just don't hold. any. get to shape out of disdain he comes to advocate and indeed for many equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart when she's to look for common ground. welcome back to crossfire were all things considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing nationalism. ok let's go back to john here i want to continue a point that george and lou brought up in the first part of the program it was all

about nato here and of course trumps instincts i don't think his instincts have changed at all i think he doesn't really see the value of nato but he surrounded himself with neo cons and of course a lot of military contract contractors want to make money off of it but you know it's very interesting that because mccrone wanted to take a swing at trump on his home grown home turf a very high profile event here he did get trump's attention but the interesting thing here is that as lou pointed out i mean his instinct is really what is nato all about and if the europeans want to take over their security requirements where i'm all for that ok because then they're going to find out that russia really has no military threat to them and then we can move forward go ahead john. well don't worry never for a moment contemplated a european army outside of nato and when trump was in the early as a palace he made that quite clear his proposal for the european army was that it

would be a component of nato and writ would reinforce nato he he was misunderstood by trump and that's what led to the twitter storm the entire history of the european construction is an american story the americans pushed the europeans into integrating in one nine hundred fifty in order to unite them to fight the cold war ended every single stage since from the marshall plan in one thousand nine hundred seven onwards right through the decades up until the single currency and now and of course with the enlargement of the european union to the east and most recently with the whole ukraine thing and the americans have been backing the european project up to the hilt and nato and the european union are our siamese twins trump's view on this is very schizophrenia yeah it's true he doesn't like nato it's true he wants more money and he's interested no doubt in pumping up like all american politicians pumping up the orders for arms manufacturers all over the country but equally he has said with great them and some great conviction on many

occasions that he does not want any country ever to come close to challenging the military superiority of the united states so in that respect i think trump is very close to the neo cons in his genuine convictions. on the broader question of nation and empire i think you know we're all having a laugh in the first part of the program but we must never forget that this part of this globalist plan is a very nasty and very serious plan which on fortunately has gone a very long way down the down the road and is very close to being realized it involves destroying national communities including through meeting a ray of of as i said up rooted and disenfranchised and disorientated citizens who effectively don't have the right to vote or have only have a meaningless vote in order to impose the. this globalist project which in turn is a combination of grotesque big business financial capitalism and

socialism the role that socialism plays in this is of course to bear the costs of all this social upheaval because mass immigration is fueled or at least paid for in part by social allocations in europe and elsewhere there wouldn't be the same levels of mass immigration if immigrants couldn't arrive and get free accommodation or social benefits or whatever and so you have this sort of horrendous unholy alliance the enemy of these two forces being indeed the nation state and being people's attachment to their natural communities including to the nation and of course to their right to vote and for their vote to have a meaning and as we've seen now in this terrible nightmare of bricks it even in a great democracy like britain there is every danger that even the vote twenty sixteen referendum is about to be extinguished by the political class as it has been in many other european democracies as well so this is very very serious stuff

you have all the you know did the market see in the west now is this to give a seal of approval of what the elites want for everyone else that it is that it's just a short ride most of the time you know george it is a shift gears a little bit here one of my pet peeves being having been in academia and now in media for a long time is that i'm really sick and tired of the left capturing language and appropriating meaning to everything you know if you watch american cable t.v. like c.n.n. and m s n b c everything is racist well if everything is racist then nothing is racist and so nationalism is something it's really nasty but there's no there's the people that say that have very little idea what they're talking about ok and i find that there was appropriate language you know in there if you say global worst or all you're a racist an enticing an anti-semite or i don't see any evidence for that but you're

here at all the time go ahead george. yes yes absolutely the right it's now everything is a matter of in kind of a reductio ad hit lare on you know you describe every discussion boils down to hitler well the hitler was full of this so therefore you'll fall for the same thing as hitler was therefore you are like hitler i mean that's the level of discussion i mean a few days ago tucker carlson was debating with somebody or other about nationalism and tucker carlson kept asking who this person well what exactly is wrong with nationalism and the only thing that this person could come up with was well hitler was a national is so therefore nationalism must be a bad thing and that was it i mean you know however many it's i've stuck with kept asking him the question who always seemed out the same think well hitler was a nationalist. he was as if he was a fascist ok

a homo seidel imperatively imperialism imperial and if you look at the good part of the ideology it was socialism ok again these people come out with their bumper stickers and they don't have a clue what they're talking about you know lou here again it's the you know if you look at it's going back to mccrone speech you know the i.m.f. is good the world bank is good the e.u. is good all of the global institutions they are good they are the in body image of the human condition and human destiny not the nation state well you wouldn't have had any of these things without the nation state in without nations go ahead lou. well we have these are all of course u.s. creations and the u.s. has always wanted to move towards a global state with that control in the global state they would like to have mexico and canada in the u.s. together in trade and otherwise and they would they want to go they will they're

moving they want to global state rather than having nations you know nations are the most natural normal thing were all born into nations were born into language communities were born into religions and cultures and these are the natural normal human things that they these these people would like to abolish and it's very dangerous as john points out and they're actually pretty close to achieving this and having the u.s. run the world whether it's satraps in europe and otherwise it's very dangerous it's actually horrendous so we have to defend nationalism of course peace is peaceful nationalism not not not aggressive nationalism not imperialist nationalism right but peaceful nationalism but it's not it's necessary to human society that i mean there's nothing wrong with being aggressive in defending your values in the culture that you were brought up in and maybe wanting to preserve the culture that you of

your of your own family of your of your great grandparents great grandparents i mean i don't see anything wrong with that there i mean i think people should be aggressive like we are on this program to defend those ideals and because i don't think these globalists institutions you know give a hoot about what i think and feel or who i am as an individual because they don't want individuals it seems to me john they just want duplications of one you know of their their new man new person whatever it's going to be that's what they want that's what's we want to create go ahead john. well you've said the words peter you know you talked about a new man and earlier in a remark you talked about socialism one of the most sinister things that's how about what's happening to us now is that in fact we in the west are living under many of the nostrums which governed soviet russia for seventy years the same ideas that lenin advanced when he took power in one nine hundred seventeen and which the

soviet regime advanced both in russia soviet russia and in the warsaw pact countries are now part of the common discourse in the west and they include of course anti fascism which was the key watchword as you know of soviet totalitarian regimes because there was a fascist danger everywhere as there is now in the west so we're told and the other watchword and i know that you know this as well as i do peter is of course peace yet the idea that the soviet system was promoted to peace will now we're in the same situation the west everything we do in the west everything our elites do is devoted to peace and it's only these nasty retrograde nationalists in russia and hungary and elsewhere in eastern europe these backward people these backwoodsman or people rednecks from the midwest it's only they who don't see the advantage of progress so we're in exactly the same. leftist progressivist totalitarian logic as that which settled on soviet russia and eastern europe for seventy or

forty years and it's as if that ideology having been discredited comprehensively east of berlin has now instead simply migrated in sound a new home in western europe where the ground i have to say was prepared throughout the cold war by the dominance of marxism in western universities throughout the ninety's sixty's throughout the one nine hundred seventy s. and throughout the nine hundred eighty s. people who were went to those universities in other words any university because that was true of every single european university and probably a few american ones as well oh yeah they are now the people running the. world again going to give george the last word here so there i don't see any difference than the soviet experience experiment to create the new man and. identity politics one is in one leads to the other go ahead forty second storage. well the that's right and if you remember as i mean the bolsheviks when they came to apollo fostered all kinds of separatism and why did they fall so separatism because if you

get everybody fighting everybody else then of course you can rule the roost and so they've you know they are they force of this kind of nationalism this kind of national separatism and that was and that is in a sense what people like george soros and the and various other corporate this elements are doing today they foster every kind of separatism because that weakens the nation states so for instance in in the in the russia they were false separatism in the caucasus. however they also feel you know force the ukrainian nationalists and they so they were fostering the david and the rats run i had that in georgia ended i would run out of time here i just want to say you could be proud of your nation in the it makes you feel proud here that's all the time we have gentlemen many thanks to my guess and strauss here in new york and in auburn and thanks to our viewers for watching us here darkie see you next time and remember.

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to. regret it was rigged up. to new york times claims moscow has been waging a fake news campaign against the west since all the times. the russian defense ministry warns that six thousand u.s. backed militants not living in a syrian refugee camp. plans to resume my fights for survival is over twenty members of the british prime minister's own conservative party go public with letters of no confidence over her draft deal. had also become prison stake.