you. the head britain's foreign office is funding a secret operation of russian campaigns across europe that's according to documents exposed by hack a group anonymous names of those involved in the network have also been revealed. rising field crisis podcasts more demonstrations and protests across the country. replying to a tough question at a top level event and right russia's foreign minister hits back at the double

standards of some states claiming to fight if human rights around the world. which is appealing. because we don't about those stories have on our website will be back in an hour's time with the full world's news updates. its crustal. hello and welcome across all things considered i'm peter lavelle future historians may look back at donald trump's handling of the murder of. it's

a case study of the lack of leadership and outright folly his reasons for giving the saudis or rather the crown prince a free pass simply don't make sense why because it's all about iran. talking trump and saudi arabia i'm joined by my guest with. he's a professor of political science at the university of tehran in london we have jonathan steele he's an international affairs commentator and in leeds we have seen shah he he is a senior lecturer in middle east politics at the university of bradford all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciated jonathan let me go to you first in london how do you react to the liberal media's treatment of donald trump these of his statements regarding the crown prince the murder of shogi and yemen and i guess also iran go ahead jonathan

. wells tracking him for not doing enough to cut relations with saudi arabia or in some way to punish the crown prince mohammed bin some man for his apparent involvement in this a turntable. but i mean there's an element of hypocrisy because. the u.s. is hard to relate with saudi arabia for years and they've done some terrible things the fact is a home invasion of yemen was sort of would have been a good smushed more important than the motive. for cutting down on relations but instead of that they are actually supporting the invasion of. home and it's go to turn around here let me read to you something that donald trump said in the last few days here saudi arabia would gladly withdraw from yemen if the iranians would agreed to leave they would immediately provide desperately needed humanitarian assistance additionally saudi arabia has agreed to spend billions of dollars in leading the fight against radical islamic terrorism do you make any sense of any of

those words go ahead and. i think those words are actually very ridiculous because iran has no physical presence and yeah i mean yes you're on has supported the who days before but there's been such a blockade on yemen that year on doesn't have the necessary means to even send humanitarian aid let alone be physically present there with regards to yemen i think we're witnessing the worst humanitarian crisis since world war two i mean save the children which is a british charity just announced that eighty five thousand children under the age of five years old have died out of starvation in the past three years and essentially we're seeing a blind eye being shown especially by the american towards what the saudis are doing not only that but they have helped the saudis both in terms of refueling their aircraft as well as intelligence sharing all regarding the issue of islamic terrorism we have to again remember that fifteen out of the nineteen hijackers on

the nine eleven terrorist attacks were saudi nationals so how can the saudis be fighting terrorism where when they are the root of terrorism in the region and they have been for many the most extreme form of islam which is why they have spread it all the cross the world so i don't think those statements by trump make any sense i have a very strong sense that mr bolton may have written those words for the president here let me go to you in lee in leeds one of the i agree with jonathan steele i mean the hypocrisy of criticizing trump when you can look at every you know since the second world war the number of dictators that the united states is protected in funded in a given legitimacy so i mean i really don't take the washington post in the new york times very seriously on this but what i think is serious here is if there is no pushback against the saudis for being involved in this horrific crime then it's actually enabling the crown prince of saudi arabia that he can actually do anything

he wants now there will be no punishment whatsoever go ahead and leaves. yes it seems that. some states. see any need for change and a complete if we if you just use a huge element or people see what they see it would be a good idea to examine why four pieces city in the city the city gates don't shock he's absolutely determined to stop or and back. there been silent since civil i think we still haven't completely exhausted why monument in solomon decided to choose two and actually if we should more light on these terror hats the keys to the we understand why don't chant use one hundred percent

determine. its case i strongly believe that it is the detail bit naive and simplistic and reductions to you that my hand were in sun going through all that to chill john mansel searches simply because he was criticizing. me superbly because he was criticizing his foreign policy in the region although this has been one of the prevailing narrative for the last few weeks but it seems there is an element of truth which is only seen in the search for asia although i cannot find a belief i am one hundred percent but i strongly think that actually john mark karr should she was a cio not because he was criticizing the mission but simply you were skewed because perhaps he knew too much what he wanted to do events a very good point because you know he's been betrayed in western media as some kind

of dissident but he was really in many ways the ultimate insider is well here jonathan one of the interesting things that we've seen here is that we have had a number of senators lindsey graham. for example come out and say the most. demeaning things you could possibly say about a person and then we have the cia coming out with its high confidence message i hate that phrase but that they believe that the the trail of the go goes all the way back to the crown prince it seems to me that this is being picked up as a domestic political issue in the united states to go after trump what do you think well there is another point of that and of course to there is a difference of view between cia and president trump on the question of russian involvement in this election of trying to sixteen etc so russia has already against the intelligence agencies on some of the big issues and so this is part of the ongoing war but i mean just to come back to your initial point about of the

nonsensical statements the trumpets made let's not forget the recent is twenty eleven trump was quoted as saying that saudi arabia is the world's biggest funder of terrorism and they're using petrol de petro dollars our own money to fund terrorists and shooting and killing our own people i mean it's done a complete one hundred ninety degree turn now suddenly is saudi arabia. yeah they i mean that twitter archive can be a bit troublesome it times let's go back to turn around one of the things i find interesting what one of the reasons why trump is still speaking about saudi arabia in the most a pearl a tip terms i mean it is quite bizarre if you look at his twitter feed but it's really his administration is made of made it very clear that the country that you reside in right now is going to target and moving israel in the saudis along with their plans for a say at regime change into iran they have to stick with the saudis because that's their an enjoyable part of that plan. is bothersome in is troublesome is that is

they the washington has chosen saudi arabia to be a key pillar in their anti rand policy go ahead. yes so they have been using saudi arabia the americans have been using saudi arabia as a proxy if you will to essentially confront iran nevertheless this hasn't been very successful on under donald trump yet rather than isolating iran they have actually ice of the themselves when they decided to leave the nuclear deal aside from saudi arabia the u.a.e. and israel virtually the entire international community was against this move and nearly the entire international community is supporting you on and the nuclear deal to stay in place so it hasn't been very successful also i think we have to consider did the downsides of supporting the saudis now when mohammed bin samon came into power we have to remember that killing cautiously wasn't the first reckless behavior from them i mean he started to arrest his political opponents in the ritz

carlton hotel the american state side and they didn't do anything they implemented a blog kate on qatar they didn't do anything they kidnapped a lebanese prime minister and forced him to resign still the americans gave them a free pass and even with canada when they cut relations with canada over it just a single tweet that criticized saudi arabia over human rights again the americans didn't support the canadians which are their natural ally so essentially they allow the saudis under the ryan of mohamed bin samon to continue with this reckless behavior that they this instance of which is the killing of she and as a result of that even if they weren't directly involved in the killing i think they share a major responsibility in it absolutely we're going to go back to you in leads here or what you know and i want to talk about this in the second half of the program as

well is what does the united states get out of its strategic relationship with saudi arabia other than the headaches go ahead. because. as we say it's struck. six so the months a number. there it. it's been talking about that fact in the wood shop i've been using. it be using his position as the president of the united states in order to expand he's seen business empire according to some reliable reports in two thousand and seventeen known that some companies at least sold soon as he finds a million dollars or so of these two part of the show companies we should bomb systematically very. very much we need

a lot of ops your bias will probably from saudi arabia or at least some connection to the i have been a little doubt that i actually don't shop at some personal interests in common of keeping the peace relationship between washington and. so very interesting theory we're about to go to the break but i think one thing is absolutely clear the neo-cons city surrounded himself with there they're driving his policy here gentlemen i want to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on trump and saudi arabia stay with our.

statistic from a couple which all came out that showed the wealth and income gap around the world in different countries and then there's there's the u.s. there's chapin there's france and then there's the u.k. it's like wow this stuff incredible spread between this project treasure and then you've got the royalist are people there in the tory party who support the queen who. so point it breaks it was a supporter clean ok so. a stereo and a moron a policy to cause trouble poverty breaks it's all about supporting the queen and getting rather of world contacts. i think that i would want to go fast but inside i'm i'm dockside really i think. going down to your backside you can improve yourself. but it's all so very true

but i really believe. that we show our side the story and the band. was. like. welcome back across the uk where all things considered i'm peter lavelle we're discussing trump and saudi arabia. ok let me go back to jonathan in london here i suppose it's the biggest problem in many ways is that it's really the united states isn't have a relationship with saudi arabia rather it has with this royal family and this is what makes the relations very difficult i mean there is speculation that as i mentioned earlier the cia with its report. placing essentially blame on the crown

prince but there is there is widely it's widely speculated that the cia doesn't really like the crown prince very much and they would have preferred another candidate and i as i said before we went to the break here there are the people that trump has surrounded himself. with they definitely have something for iran in mind ok and and saudi arabia is part of the team and whatever it takes to get the you know the neo-cons agenda to her wish and they're willing to accept i think that's why when we are our guest in tehran mentioned all of these failures of the crown prince that's why they're overlooking them ok this is really the case here do you think there is a play jonathan to forward for for family change not necessarily regime change. well i mean if they had mohammed bin nayef who was previously the top sort of security person in riyadh he would have been better key and so on but it doesn't

change the basic parameters of the huge deep relationship between the u.s. and saudi arabia i think it's not just because they're using saudi arabia against iran and saudi arabia's very willingly going along with that they don't need much persuasion there are two other big factors one of course is the arms sales huge billion dollar sales of american weapons to saudi arabia which helps the american economy but the very big issue in israel the question of israel of course is already they want to do up there is now being called normalization which is to get the arab countries to start normalizing they're going to actions with israel first on a commercial basis its tenets and sharing than political and diplomatic to allow israel to have a much freer hand in the middle east and the view we have been reports of on the table contacts between the saudi intelligence people and the israeli intelligence people whom we've seen. who went to oman recently in their other contacts with arab

countries as well in the gulf so that's really it's a huge thing if they could get saddam going to come out openly declare that israel was a normal states and they could have diplomatic relations with it that would be a huge prize for the donald trump and the neocons yeah and a bit let me go back to. that and that would be a very big prize for jared because apparently that's part of his grand settlement for the middle east there but i don't know i mean if i were in the trump white house i would see that the trials and tribulations of benjamin netanyahu the prime minister he's in a tight spot politically. he's a he's acting foreign minister sorry defense minister right now. so you know you have this normalization to be. between saudi arabia in israel do you think that agenda will work in trying to isolate iran in the region because basically it's

a sunni shia thing they're trying to play here go ahead and. yes but the fact is that the trump family and as especially jared kirshner have invested so much in mohamed bin samon that it's very difficult to undermine him or change him right now i mean u.s. media actually reported that the list of princes that were arrested in the ritz carlton hotel the rivals of mohamed bin some on the list was actually given to m.b.'s by jared questionnaire and that's how that's how close they are the problem is however that the new issue of normalization of arab countries with israel is not a sunni shia thing it's actually a issue of the palestinians the position of the saudis has always been under fire had been on drugs the law that they would only normalize relations when a fair solution to the palestinian problem would be found and the problem we're having right now is this normalization is happening without any sort of more of the

ocean for the palestinians is in fact the palestinian yes in fact the passage situation has even gotten worse for example when the negotiations and settlement happened in the early one nine hundred ninety s. there were only one hundred thirty thousand settlers living in the occupied territories today there is over half a million so the two state solution has essentially died and we have to remember that the issue of normalization with israel is also very unpopular in the muslim world so it's actually going to be a very difficult task both for n.b.s. and for jerry to question or you know i've seen you know it's not the first time the west is used to late capture to get its way and i agree. if there is such a thing as an arab street you better you better check in with that before you start but there is a normalization already of relations maybe not so public. but between israel and saudi arabia is the us why is it i'm not just saying trump now but the u.s.

in general is it wise to put all its eggs in one basket i mean this relationship between saudi arabia and israel what is the downside because i don't see a whole really a whole lot of upside go ahead upstream in lienz. look so part of the sense of transforming the us is seems that he has one of these three. iran centric to which to effectively change everything into a political landscape. he needs he believes that actually. he's the alternate source of trouble and american insecurity in the region and in all due to resists the reigning position in the middle east he has to park create these alliances the triangle between washington d. . and reacts and it is not surprising tool for the last three or

four weeks when effectively every important politician expressing some concern about this situation particularly when we realize that there was the don't recall election which then to southie a savage men and the killing of john marshall cheap easy to live in israel basically people like not on yahoo constantly said yes what's happened was not nice but at the same time easel and the huge what they call stability and security in the middle east that requires their continuous position all through. been been silent so if you can assert their position well for american foreign policy with these pretty specific fun thinks at least to then it doesn't make sense to maintain an. in order to constitute a need to brush up against against you know as. well you know all i could

say actually no i can say let me go to jonathan here right now the over the last fifteen years or so the more the west and its proxies in the in the region try to isolate around the more powerful rand i really don't understand there's no learning curve these people don't learn here jonathan one of the most tragic things i think for me and i made it a point on this program to continue discussing what's going on in yemen it took leak the murder of shogi to actually get the yemen story into the mainstream media and it was about time here what worries me is big giving you know giving dictators a free pass is nothing new ok at all all right but in this case here isn't it enabling saudi arabia's her refer to a murderous policy viz of yemen to go on checked. going to use them didn't it is going on in the united states has made some little minor adjustments they said they

were intel with the refueling in florida refueling of saudi craft of bombing in yemen but twenty percent of the flights involve u.s. refueling so the eighty percent is still going ahead the u.s. also has been calling for a cease fire season to be done unless you put some diplomatic clout behind it and threaten to his tool help from mohamed bin solomon he's never going to agree to a cease fire there have been some pinpricks things acting. by the u.s. but there is another point i'd like to make which i think is important in the trump statement which is to say he parroted the comments to king solomon and mohammed bin some on the son has said which is to jamal khashoggi was linked to the muslim brotherhood president if that's true but the muslim brotherhood is the real danger for the saudis and that's why they hated so much because it was. political islam but with democratic rights and elections and proper political parties and so on

which is why are they wanted to see it destroyed in egypt against qatar because qatar helps out the muslim brotherhood why are they bad relations with turkey because turkey is in a sense very similar to the muslim brotherhood having an islamic political party in power so. why are so these charges against kushal ji. let's go back to iran here. i want to stay with the issue of yemen here what is it going it looks like there's just no political will because we have the defense secretary in the united states matters he's again saying that there will be talks in december but it sounds like it is the can gets keep getting kicked down the road i mean there is no political will in washington to to stop the saudis and they're. destroying yemen what is the united states get out of that what is the west in general get out of a destroyed yemen where it's basically moving towards

a form of genocide go ahead. yes so instability in the war in the middle east is good for washington in the short term because i mean they sell billions of dollars of weapons to disability so the saudis being involved in war is actually good for business and i think that's something to donald trump made very clear in his recent statement essentially saying that this is part of the america first policy where you know the saudis can get away with what they're doing because they're bringing jobs and money to the united states well i would say i'm sorry i wouldn't really had a really i would really contest that ok the deals that he's talking about are in the pipeline they're not even really fine i mean the bombs on the planes they all came from the bush obama era trumpets had no in zero impact on arms sales to saudi arabia. at this point i'll give you the last word interim go ahead yes i would totally agree with that the trump is is an expert in exaggerating numbers but

i would say that even if those numbers were true in the long run this kind of policy of supporting an aggressive dictator like m.b.'s is going to be bad for u.s. interests the saudis have four men to a lot of instability and terrorism in the region i mean when the rise of a group such as isis which came out of the illegal invasion of iraq essentially had a wahhabi ideology twelve out of twelve books out of amounts that i'm sorry i actually have to jump in here more by how i'm going to jump in you know where run out of time many thanks to my guests until around leeds and london and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r t c you next time and remember crosstalk fools.

what holds us to do something to. put themselves on the line they get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president and you. want to be. too great to be the person this is what. three of the four people that i'm interested in the waters of the. question. nobody could see coming that false confessions would be that profile in this particular case the fall of the virtue if you look at any interrogations out there what you'll see is threat promise threat promise threat lie a lie a lie the process of interrogation is designed to put people in just that frame of mind make the most comfortable make them want to get out and don't take no for. they also don't accept their denials she said if i would. sign a statement that i would be all about that the next day there's

a culture on accountability and police officers know that they can engage in misconduct that has nothing to do with all the crime. on the scene on the lying circumstances. allowed for the commotion so be very vigilant for violence i think that we may get the sons and even grandsons of dies at some point in the future it's primarily a political issue none of that has taken on minutes we are on the for occasions. styles are starting again here's my gang saying signal well.

stacy do want to be in my gang. no but i do want to talk about a topic. that might trigger you and it has to do with brakes it oh. oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh ok see i told you off no. no a lot of the headlines talk about the economic disaster that is the united kingdom and place it as the explanation on breaks it but al gore edwards from soft is back and he said it's not to do with brags that in fact it's to do with what one of our guest said that steve keen and he was right we're going to get to that so i'm going to first lay out the story of his thesis this is albert edwards from society in general famous bear was very bearish during the two thousand and seven two thousand and eight two thousand and nine and finally capitulated and went long i think in two thousand and eleven or two thousand and twelve but he's back and he's saying time has run out of the.