the. court hearings are held in russia for ukrainian navy personnel detained after sunday's clash and the. european pledges to support companies to find. the french. project in the country.

five international humanitarian groups call on the us its military support for saudi arabia for the war in. coming up right now. it's ukraine versus russia again a minor maritime incident on the courage strait is said to be anything between a major international crisis a cheap campaign trick as ukraine enters an election cycle take your pick but one thing is for sure russia is. deemed aggressive by the west even when defending its

sovereignty. ross talking strained relations i'm joined by my guest a real concern to in london he's a foreign affairs consultant an analyst we also have in london married a chef ski she is a columnist for the independent and the guardian and in washington we have michael maloof he is a former senior security policy analyst in the office of the secretary of defense all right crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate mary let me go to you first here. i obviously read up on prepared for this program i looked at all of western media and government reactions and foreign policy an article that came out on the twenty seventh and the title is putin pushes russia ukraine tensions to a four year high now the reason i mention that and i think i'll quote something of it later is that there's there's something that they can assume what russia's

intentions are always no matter what the topic but in this instance there's very little attention given to what ukraine actually did and then russia's reaction to those actions here again we have these diametrical different. narratives in play here one of demonization and one is a wrong party when it's far more complex than that and far more dangerous than that go ahead barry. well i was i have to say that i was very surprised to wake up to discover that the. clash navy essentially in the straits of. russia and ukraine seemed to be on the verge of a maritime war. and it all seemed incredibly dangerous. and ukraine. there are six. i think to get its version of the story out

first. so their version which i mean it. essentially been disproved. was that there were two gunboats and a tug and that russian ship. crashed into the tugboat deliberately. there are two. the crews of the two gunboats have been taken prisoner. in what is. russian next crimea so i think those to those facts and there but the question of why there's not but mary they're not even address those are not even the facts ok first of all if you look at the footage the tugboat was desperate to be hit by the russian ship i mean it with zigging and zagging and if you understand russian well enough you couldn't repeat those words in english because they were saying

basically get out of the way all right ok let me go to michael here michael this all happened on sunday but saturday and the friday before and the week before and the month before ships were going under that bridge into that sea unimpeded why you got a call up and say hey we're coming through this is our type of boat this is the type of time this is what we're carrying and we do have a pilot there that can escort us that protocol that they'd been doing that for years but not on sunday and ukraine didn't put that story out it didn't notify the proper authorities here that story ukrainians forgot to give out go ahead michael. yeah it's subject to the protocols back in two thousand and three and up right at that point they were abiding by it for the most part but the problem is this is in

a larger strategic picture what you're seeing here is the west looking for an excuse to go after moscow secondly you're also seeing that poor shank of the president of ukraine is in serious political troubles are you strong and i i smell a a tail weighing in the dog here reminiscent of saakashvili back in georgia in two thousand and eight when he provoked the russians and shot. russian peacekeepers in the south of setia and then the war was on at that time it was to try and get nato to protect georgia in this case i think by declaring martial law as poor shank go did he's trying to solidify his political base if he can so let it out at night at eight percent and so little area let me go to you in london let me give this little tidbit out to everybody when you know coverts was even legally ejected from the presidency in february two thousand and fourteen his public

opinion approval was twenty four percent puerto shango by even ukrainian accounts is eight percent so i wonder what's really in play here i don't know what the intentions were on the street straight but i can see political maneuvering on the part of put a shank owen the people that put him in power go ahead in london. thank you peter as you rightly point out. it is the fact that in the thirty of the march two thousand nine hundred. we see the elections coming in the ukraine the support of the current president of ukraine the support of just did what he did so. what he. ate it i mean the ukraine violated the article nineteen twenty three of the un convention all the. all the

see. it was a provocation as everyone is saying this but what was the purpose of this. all of this provocation is intended lee to the. you know. any any sort of gatherings or protests in ukraine to regulate the media as you rightly pointed out mr poroshenko estimating today he's chances to get through the second round of the presidential elections in ukraine is zero he's not even able to get to the second round what mr porson sees he's waiting for the concert qantas straight from the u.s. he's waiting to be a good knowledge as the right for hold all the power in the ukraine or also this. for the us neo cons to use the ukraine for the base to attack russia in the future i mean let us be clear yesterday my profits from from the you know university of

warsaw professor contacted me at night saying done what they are doing asking me what they are doing well i mean when we are sitting in moscow in washington now in london it looks like a zero is another conflict no you know that on the border between ukraine and poland out prop. people are fighting one child ok i go i want to get me another yeah let me go to let me go to mary here you know you know mary with this proclamation of martial law all of us here on this program and many of our viewers have been following what's been going on in ukraine so this is the first crisis situation ukraine is face to declare martial law that is quite amazing here and of course with the impending election cycle the the the the shutting down of public display discourse controlling the media here where is the outrage in about

that in western media and from the u.s. state department and everybody else that was quick to blame it target russia's intentions go ahead mary. well i think that the declaration of martial law was certainly seen as a quite drastic move which seemed completely out of proportion to the clash the been in the straits of coach. but i think that something quite interesting this happens that may reflect. some of the difficulty is that maybe some of ukraine's western sponsors had with the with the whole concept of declaring martial law so close to an election and this was that when the proposal came before parliament in ukraine as i understand it it's actually been reduced quite significantly so while the initial idea was that the whole of ukraine

would be subject to martial law with all the restrictions on freedom of speech freedom of assembly presumably election campaigning and all that. the the provision that is actually passed through parliament is for something rather less than that and i think it only goes up to the twenty seventh of december so yet couple of months before the election it's also restricted to the border areas of ukraine so to that extent it can be seen or at least it can be justified by ukraine as. a security measure and i wouldn't be i mean and i just get the impression and this may be totally wrong that between. president poroshenko saying he was proposing martial law and parliament actually discussing it that may have been some rather urgent advice transmitted may revive certain western

embassies wise to say well maybe this actually doesn't look very good maybe you had better think of it rather maybe. limited to a bit in terms of the time in terms of the geography. and i think that's what seems to have happened ok michael i could tell you want to jump in go ahead. what hasn't been mentioned yet is that under that martial law. he can actually postpone elections if he so chooses so this gives him on usual a lot of presidential authority in which he can and which he can. you know continue on and and you can access and he can expand the martial law provisions indefinitely if he chooses to do so so this is not this is almost an open ended and all course it is that the west is not i'm not addressing well in those kind of a i mean look i mean ukraine on sunday broke

a number of provisions of international law when it comes to the to the c.s. ok so i mean do we have a lot of confidence that they're going to keep their word out or passing this law through parliament i mean one other i don't have a copy there mike i've got to jump in here we have to go to a hard break after that break we'll continue our discussion on strained relations stayed with our. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guests of the world of politics or business i'm show business i'll see you then. please go cam so you get three people that came. and they're like so vampires.

safe housing and they don't have to talk about what they go through with us because we understand our daughter g.d. was diagnosed with a very rare some sensitive condition. i get sunburned i hear she does there's real patients' problems with the want to talk to some of the brains of actually shrinking inside the skull gets weaker in the brain still small. the pain is indescribable it's feels like a really really bad chemical burn but it goes through your skin in your muscles down to the bone. there is no relief. we're not sure this is just over. welcome back across like we're all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to

remind you we're discussing strained relations. ok let's go back to michael maloof in washington we had to cut you off we had to go hard break finish up my friend you know it one thing that's not been mentioned all that much in western media is the fact that for months leading up to this through this episode. ukrainian ships were also detaining russian ships in that very same area and that's been going back and forth back and forth because of the protocols and the challenges that are required so this is not just a one sided thing and if and this morning there was a an interview of the captain of the ukrainian ships who basically said we were asked to provide information and what our intentions were and we and my my orders from higher authority was don't respond. so it really looks like it was

a planned provocation but well i think i think it's quite clear to anyone that wants to look at the facts here you already mentioned nato here nato popped up remedial. lead to talking about ukraine i mean ukraine is not a member of nato number one ok and it should be made clear here and also this seems to be a provocation on a larger scale to have ukraine become a member of nato which you know it's kind of like forcing it through here but this is the but this is very this is very ill founded logic because if in case we saw on sunday there are tensions between russia and ukraine for a variety of reasons why would nato want to have a member within their alliance that has bad relations with and with a neighbor that could come to a military exchange what is the logic i thought nato was about projecting speace

instability it seems to me they're doing just the opposite go ahead in london. it's one thing to have. a ukraine as a member in order to europeans as a common for the they know the ukrainian. current situation in ukraine led by the nazis because that will be a clear all the jewish newspapers and all the media and all the research as the new analyses in ukraine is doing very well so the main main main main cause and main main thing to have ukraine as a close all is to use the. as a stick to the russian bear and also from the geopolitical point of view let us not forget. who clearly written in his democratic ideals and reality. that who rules europe

commands. who rules the how. i learned who rules the island commands the. world so let us not be deceived by it and use paper for the guardian. simon jenkins has written all of the problem straight off the information coming out about the ukrainian soldiers sailors have been captured forget about breaks in the ukraine the war in ukraine. for europe so let us be fair the machinery to p.r. machine there really behind this is coming from the. air i mean it is beyond comprehension i mean you know heavy project it's just the opposite is very comprehensive to me because it all seems to fit together i mean like it's like an oiled machine it really kicked in mary of course i mean you know hang on we're

going to marry that we got to make it you see there's a big talk is one of the first reactions to all of this is that this is also aimed at the trumpet ministration you know the trumpet ministration is saying should russia over and over again congress has more sanctions on the way for the script affair that the u.s. has nothing to do with but anyway. and then we have the g. twenty i mean you know so make sure trump and putin don't talk here i mean i think that's a bit of a stretch but because i think the u.s. russia relations have been so soured it'll take a generation for that to change and i can tell you most people on my side of the pond of just given up on good relations just have to remain bear getting through what we are now go ahead mary. yes well i mean the question of the g. twenty and the probable meeting of president trump and president putin in argentina

in the framework of that meeting. that has certainly been mentioned as a consideration maybe for the timing. of this clash in the coach straits now i don't know whether that's true or not but in a way if it was designed to do such a meeting and to prevent any sort of agreement it's probably only half succeeded because in a way new tension between russia and ukraine actually provides a better reason for the two of them to talk so i mean i'm not completely convinced that it would actually frustrate that sort of meeting but i think that's something else that maybe we've neglected in all of this which is that when you look at the map. of the sea of ours of where this instant happened. this is an accident waiting to happen yeah it is an absolute nightmare.

and when you when you actually consider you know i think what was forgotten when when this clash was first reported nobody has mentioned i think the fact that there was actually a clash way back in two thousand and three you know almost in the very same place and the fact that there is another occasion agreement for the sea of dates for a clash that was the outcome of that clash that it was agreed that there should be shared navigation between russia and ukraine through the sea of us of the regulations put in place and in a way it's almost remarked more remarkable that this is the first serious serious incident since two thousand and three. than that and then nothing else force. yes regulations which were put in place of an emergency basis how factually held yeah yeah but you're absolutely let me go to michael here mary brings up an

excellent point but then that goes we go right back to the beginning it was a mechanism that did work it was working up until saturday and then there was an intention to break that understanding here and we have to remember there's a three point two billion dollar bridge there now which is a great strategic importance to russia they have to use extra assets to protect it and we've heard ukrainian politicians and others that say it's a legitimate target for destruction an act of terror go ahead michael yeah i you know i don't believe in coincidences at all. the fact the fact that there is going to be the g. twenty and this this indicates that porsche and co was leading up to that pretty much like what we saw as i refer back again to two thousand and eight with the georgian incident in which saakashvili was warned repeatedly don't antagonize russia which he was planning to do this is what's happening again and now it's

drawn in as a result the big the big boys and and what's interesting is that trump himself has been rather silent on all this so i think that he and he is sending a signal really that intends to cheat to cool it down a little bit he's going to have that meeting and things are going to work out i think he's looking forward to that meeting with with putin and he still has a desire to work with putin on a number of a myriad of issues but but this clearly was a calculation on the part of poor shank oh and people close to him and the people within the state particularly the state department and the neo cons that antagonize these guys because that their relationship with the porsche and go government is very very strong and so they're the. amount of instigation there is incredible to to incite and i think that that's what we have here in preparation for this meeting in order to get basically to say i'm not going to talk to putin i don't think that

that's what trump wants to do me a little he wants i don't think i think he's and i think that it's going to be my point and i think it's interesting is that he would prefer to blast to resume over briggs than to tweet about ukraine. g.'s to resume he can't win or lose in these states i reckon. it is not high on his priority not how i do it let me go back to add really in london here it's speaking of the sea of. results you know i have read that the land council is proposing members of the atlantic council that the this should be militarized is that you know what nato should go in there it's a shallow sea then nato ships can't even navigate it maybe some dogs but i think it's like seven meters deep what are you going to do what kind of ship do you want to put in there i mean i guess if they want to do that then why shouldn't rush should be able to put its ships into lake michigan that's fair when you say go

ahead. i mean what we can see a difference between the behavior of russia and america i think any any any other country than russia if they would be attacked and program. you know constantly by so many western powers we would already have a nuclear holocaust in this planet are. full of you know praise for for president putin and for his administration that they. keep you know the on the ground i mean you know they are not willing to participate in this you know it is foreign policy movement this is a textbook study in patients to interested. patience and mary you know i said in my introduction. you know rushes it demonized and called aggressive when it defends its own sovereignty i think you know that's something the foreign policy blob with

michael is right now they can never come to the conclusion they never can reflect upon. russia will do everything it can to protect its sovereignty and its demonized for a last word goes to you mary. yes well i mean i think there's an awful lot of misreading of russia's position. pretty much everything pretty much with the with the assumption that russia is aggressive rather than defensive and the motives a mis read because of that. but i also think that michael and both absolutely right when they say that both trump and putin. have really kept out of this latest clash or whatever they said has been very low key and designed to tone things down. and i think that means that water hopefully

absolutely. but i think that that means that whatever. the rights and wrongs of may have happened the two big players in this are at the moment determined the two shouldn't escalate into well sort of ok let's keep our fingers crossed that's a semi optimistic note here that's all the time we have here many thanks to my guests in london and in washington and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t. see you next time and remember crossed. ourselves the banks prepared to lead the credit market so are they going to. for now with the recent rate rises there is room for they would come in and they would.

rather mark around. and authorize how. to. break. the law has a funny. write down the bank. bayswater chemical lies and this is going to go he would. do internationally known that these industries are new to simply ignore the money and. the mother of. this.

life. for a reason. not to sure. but to discover our strengths. way to be with you because. through all of my moments i had which is why i got a black ribbon. symbolizes no matter the strong go out go through these

have the strength to push through you no matter what i do i'm going to have. power and the positivity to just. go about my day everybody. so i just got a lot of them honest. because you have a negative like if you have a negative mindset. you think everything bothers you i'm going to be pressed. on. what we see. our daughter katie was first diagnosed with a very rare sun sensitive condition.