across talking julian assange i'm joined by my guest joe lauria in washington he's editor in chief of consortium news dot com and author of how i lost by hillary clinton with a forward by julian assange also in washington we have gareth porter he's an independent investigative journalist and historian as well as author of manufactured crisis the untold story of the u.n. nucular scare and in plymouth we cross to patrick and he is a journalist writer and founder of the news website twenty first century wired dot com all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it and i to open up by saying thanking all three of you to come here to speak out on the behalf of the profession known as journalism it's all it's pretty scarce profession at least. acted out in the live by professionals so i'm glad that you're here gareth let me go to you first and let's talk about journalism because julian a songe is his case his case study as it were is

a precedent in the making and it really galls me that the profession cannot see the slippery slope that we're all staring down at once it happens to julian assange as a publisher then who's next go ahead gareth. well i can't agree anymore with what you said it's clear that songe is on the block here in a way that is extremely dangerous to the profession of journalism. because it would in fact. i think you just suggested it would set a precedent for the u.s. government to go after journalists under a wide range of circumstances. as long as they can portray somebody as somehow connected with the enemy whatever that enemy might happen at the moment.

yeah you know i think that that is indeed the issue that we're staring in the face here joe you did a wonderful interview with chris hedges and i commend everyone. to watch it as i think was absolutely brilliant explain to us how the espionage act could play out these of julian assange because considering the conditions that he's living in in the ecuadorian embassy in london it sounds like it's getting pretty desperate over there they're obviously trying to flush him out without the ecuadorian embassy government being embarrassed we go through the list of things that they've done to him but it's obvious they want to give him the show of here how's the espionage act of one nine hundred seventeen play into this go ahead joe thank you peter yes the espionage act does play a big role in this if in fact he's been indicted as a criminal complaint is very likely under the one nine hundred seventeen espionage

act however if he were indicted under the original nine hundred seventeen espionage act there would not have had to amendments that were made to the act one in one nine hundred fifty one in one nine hundred sixty one the one thousand nine hundred fifty criminalize possession of stolen documents classified documents in other words before that and it is still pretty much politically the case that. if a publisher or a newspaper receives classified information and publishes it they are not look you considered to be liable only the person who stole the document the whistleblower who gave it to the publication but under the one nine hundred fifty. amendment now anyone who possesses it could in fact be prosecuted so even if doing a songe and we could be x. and not actively take part in the crime of taking the documents because they had them and disseminated them they could be prosecuted however this is never happened yet because there was no cli as we disastrous yeah i mean because it's a political decision not a legal one but the other other memo i want to mention is people keep bringing up

he's not an american citizen and this act of publishing took place outside u.s. territory while the original nine hundred seventeen espionage act specifically said this had to take place on u.s. territory that was changed in one thousand nine hundred one when a congressman got upset by a state department official in poland who apparently gave in to blackmail while he was outside the u.s. so that the act was changed so you don't have to be on u.s. territory anymore as well so if they want to go after him they can but it's never happened before the nixon administration did not go after senator mike gravel when he published the pentagon papers outside the congress where he's protected to say whatever he wants and it hasn't happened since john peters anger in sixteen thirty five colonial america that a government of britain then the british colonial govern went after a publisher for writing something that turned out to be true but they didn't like it because iran uncovered exposed crimes by the government so he's in a very precarious situation because the trump administration might be the first one to actually do this even though politically it's never been been the right decision

even though they have the legal tools they've never been used and i should add the new york times number two lawyer was out on the west coast few months ago and told judges in a speech that they did not want to songe prosecutor because the new york times could be next because they're just writing thing we can leaks does publish classified information you know patrick and that did see that's the whole wrinkle here because they're going to they're going to say. jillian assigned was more than a publisher and that's why i think the report is very germane here because they want to make people believe because because i do this on their on the way they can do it they could actually do all of this against him if they get their hands on him in secret and we would never really know what evidence all we would have to do is believe the judge and believe moller which i wouldn't believe either considering what's happening here way and patrick go ahead well this in order that you just laid out there peter if that is indeed what will what they're trying to to do what

they're what might happen that would essentially preserve the narrative so in other words if you go there they could go through the sharod of due process or whatever passes for due process today into these political environment and then preserve the narrative which essentially is russia gate a russian collusion which to date there has been no actual evidence to sort of substantiate that and that's the premise of this whole. circus basically what robert mueller and the special counsel have been digging for and digging through dumpsters for for the last two years literally. literally recently to is is really a dumpster fire of fake news basically so but that's what that's the premise of the this whole thing. that you're absolutely correct that's one danger but peter the other thing that very related to this is the case of a drone corsi which is in the news right now and they're trying to you know

maneuver or try to maneuver corsi into a position where he would in fact you know libel himself essentially in order to accept a plea bargain which he's already rejected but the point is and the point corsi made in an interview with miss n.b.c. which is an excellent example of a decent interview although it's quite tough the interview from you. but even if a staunch had stole the documents himself and you know course he still is protected as a journalist under the new york times worse as united states case with the pentagon papers so he has a right under basic press freedoms to go and find out and he can even look at them and he can report on them you add to this the context of the twenty sixteen election and course he made his political biases known to the public he says i'm pro trump and of course i'm interested in this and see if i can help the trunk and paint drum corps he's been more honest and transparent and put his biases on the

table more than the investigation which looks like a kangaroo court to anybody who's on isstd but you have to get a guarantee to weigh in on that because i mean there are there's a long history of the espionage act being used but it wasn't really journalism and even even the pentagon papers they never voted there this is the precedent that's being said here is that a publisher can be made to face charges under espionage is actually a traitor to his kind country he's aiding and abetting an enemy whatever though there's no enemy has been a den of fide in this in this case here so i mean this is the criminalization of journalism ice as i said in my introduction. well you know i think that's that's absolutely right i think what what you are talking about here is precisely

a response to the the moeller teams need for the ability to squeeze joy in a sunshiny that appears to be the real prize that is that they see within their grasp or potential grasp i had thought originally that. really this was about the cia's embarrassment over the vulgarisms by wiki leaks of the vault seven documents because they were so clearly showing that the cia not only has been rampaging through all of the electronic media or electronic devices of everyone across the globe but that they had the capability and undoubtedly used it at some point were planning to use it to to make it look like another foreign intelligence agency was responsible for the hacking and

clearly the timing of the original decision that was announced to go after a songe came immediately after the release of the vault seven documents so there did appear to be a connection there but i am now more and more persuaded by the idea that there must have been there must be a primary connection here with the mother of the mole or folks. you know but at the same time has to wonder one has to wonder but then you can kill a lot of birds with one stone this is like this is like that silver bullet you get russia gate taking care of you cal the media you get journalists in line it's a bit it's a perfect storm if you're if you're at the state here fifteen seconds joe real quick and then i'll go back i think brooke we're talking about a finish up gareth go ahead peter i think what we're what we're talking about is a convergence of two possible or likely sets of interests

here that both are after a songe for different reasons ok or i get right general i'm going to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion julian assange stay with our. us veterans who come back from war often tell the same stories. were going after the people who were killing civilians they were not interested in the wellbeing of their own soldiers either they're already several generations of them so i just got this memo from the circular defense of officer says we're going to attack and destroy the government and seven countries in five years americans pay for the wars with their money others with their lives if we were willing to go into harm's way

and willing to risk being killed for a war surely we can risk some discomfort for an easy for. you know world big partisan movie lot and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that made stream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smart we need to stop slamming the door. and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. the way to the united states is dangerous for most of the illegal immigrants.

casillas just as they would a simple they want any kind of entry and i want to address this on this but as many of them look for refuge in the so-called sentries sides of the draft used to share information about undocumented migrants with federal authorities i think the best person as they are. at the. the best i got on the bus and i thought about. what are their options to stay in the country with donald trump in the white house along with other political rivals the both of you what is the who to beat up to the. struggles of many couples alone for. the political political both of you have to do that all of them. welcome back to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing julian assange.

ok let me go back to joe in washington again you know this russia gate moeller report and julian assange i think it is all tightly connected particularly the timing here because i'm convinced with the public evidence that's available that julian assange did not get those protest the e-mails from russia he got it from someone in probably on a memory stick ok the n.s.a. with all of its assets could have figured out if that amount of information had been sent over the internet it was vast ok so they would have been able to pick that up so so they know where it probably came from but it doesn't fit their narrative enter julian assange in a secret court and all that all that you pull all the threads together you tie it up into one little pretty bow that the western media the liberal media will sell it

saying gotcha joe what's your reaction. well absolutely in fact it goes back to two thousand and ten what the afghan war logs and the iraq collateral damage tape that's when julian and his lawyers believe the indictment was first made but now we do does bring itself very clearly into the russia gate story and ruler and luke harding a journalist journalist at the guardian hear that sound the british government a journalist masquerading as a as a clown yes go ahead. yeah but the real change here also is the ecuadorian government changed the print the previous government left wing under correll gave him a songe asylum was protecting him and this his status would not have changed but the new government is very close to the us and has been pressured by pence vice president prince and others and they want to get him out so these three can picking up on what garrett was saying about confluence of interest is the interest of the

government get him out of the british and the us to get him and of luke harding to get his reputation restored because he recently unearthed a bestseller called collusion there is no evidence of collusion he has to go find some so the ecuadorian intelligence and the us knowing that the guy's going to be very open to anything it's fed him this absolutely fairy tale that poem and if it went in and then met with too many signs three times the last times more or less when he became the head of the campaign they need to connect the trunk campaign to a sondre and we could mix and therefore they say to the russians they haven't been able to do this so this is an opportunity given to harding who grabbed it and ran with it without any video evidence of man for going in and out without his passport having been given or logging in at the embassy the zero evidence he went there they both furiously denied both manifold and weekly leaks of weekly suing the guardian for this story so if russia gate has brought this absolute to

a head ecuador wants him out you markets want him and they they need and moolah needs a collusion evidence that because every indictment he has put out has. specifically said when they announce that there's no americans and no trump campaign people involved there's no collusion yet they haven't found it so they cooked up this story about manfred which is i don't think it's going to go very far frankly peter because it is so ludicrous well patrick let me go to you i mean. luke harding is never really bothered much with facts he does a different type of thing and i think you know what i mean. patrick one of the things that's really sad here is that if you look at the fascinating career of weiqi leaks and they've been right just every single time they have a wonderful track record no news agency can match that but through the career of weiqi leaks and julian assigned she's made a lot of enemies during the bush years the democrats loved george w. bush was criticized with all the document releases but then when but destiny came

around it switched now both parties and the deep state and feckless people who call themselves journalists don't want to stick pull their head out of the ground i could use other language but this is t.v. you know this is a perfect storm against julian assange isn't it. you know it is if if truth if truth was was the gold standard by which professional journalism was measured then wiki leaks and julie songe would be heralded heralded right now instead of hounded yeah joyce and could walk right out the door within weeks and he would have had everybody rallying on his side but there's been a major political alignment a realignment as it were and i think this began under the obama administration is has to do with a lot of things including the the division or split of this of the antiwar left or the remnants of it opposed to bush but also the fact that russia that's the reason

d'etre of washington right now in terms of geopolitics and so that that split is pronounced but the other thing is. that with the guardian two to knowingly they had a heads up the day before when the when the story was published online you need to think that they were they still ran with it on the morning print edition the following morning i went to the newsstand and there was this completely fabricated story and they had like at least i don't know how much time to stop the press from the day before but they ran with it anyway this tells me that there's a deep seated corruption within mainstream media outlets and i think it's becoming more than an open secret now that there is a sort of a level of penetration by the intelligence services in the west whether that's through influence or through actually in bet embedded people in editorial desks or whatever but we have to thank luke harding and denny collins for helping to expose

this we owe them a great debt of gratitude this week because it showed exactly what these mainstream media outlets are doing in a coordinated fashion and i know i'm going to add the anonymous document dump of the integrity initiative which is the m.k. and national endowment for democracy funded initiative working with mainstream journalists to coordinate anti right. ssion talking points at the hub is the atlantic council and the deal far less so that was exposed this week as well so all of these exposures really point to a damning indictment that the fourth estate has become a fifth column yeah working against the interests of the public interests this is devastating in terms of the general narrative of the state of the media or what's left of the free press in the west people should really take a step back and look at this this is an absolute circus what's playing out in front of this and that and i'm waiting for people of honest character to step forward people who are there who there were there on this program ok there are

a lot of there aren't very many more but some of them are here ok we need we need more we need more of them and let me quickly just add to guardian then fold this up with a story by john swing from their new york bureau and they used a source is glenn simpson function g.p.s. and they didn't even mention that he works for fusion they just had an expert on the matter glenn simpson so my question is is a fusion g.p.s. using the guardian as a dumping ground for all the leftovers now this is just out of control it's amazing using one of the guarantee when one of the things it's fascinating to me and watching the julian assange. story and russia gate is that there is almost absolutely no downside in being wrong you know as if you look at the protest the e-mails we learned a lot that's what makes them so angry that you learned

a lot about hillary clinton in her campaign and we also learned for us on this program is that new york times journalists would send their copy to the d.n.c. to be proof read to be fact checked to be approved before it would be published now if that isn't a sad state of affairs for journey. listen i don't know what is ok you asked the powers that be that you genuflect to the powers that be if you get permission to print propaganda this is pathetic go ahead gareth that's the state of journalism now. you know i think the point is here that you can you can get away with almost anything as long as it is in line with the than the official. the accepted narrative and that that seems to be what we're seeing play out here but i have to say that there are limits of some sort in that. you know you can

publish something that is so obviously off off the charts and that that is not believable that it causes problems and i think luke harding has strayed into that territory not the first time and whatever it is because of evidence that i would offer for that. right i would just point out that politico this morning had a piece by a former cia operative who suggests that luke harding was was taken for a ride by somebody who is on the other side of the issue trying to discredit him which is a rather interesting well development a story ok well let me go let me go to joe i mean i met luke harding about a couple of times here in moscow and he was really the laughingstock of the entire foreign press corps here so not the first time for this guy you know he's a he has a real track record there maybe when you meet him ask him about his plagiarism of a. satirical magazine called the exile ask mark eames he was the editor

of it there joe what's you know again you know the our our numbers are thinning the people that want to do real journalism here i'm very pessimistic i don't see it turning around because you have a fusion of the media into the state and everybody's happy everyone's with. rich you don't have to think mary very much stupid people can be on t.v. a lot i mean everybody wins on their side it's all about status career isn't vanity fame money and the and the sucking up to people in power and you know journalism has a power even greater than the power of government because our power if it's exercised is to keep those in power in check instead we see journalist it's been going on for a while now they've sucking up and living vicariously through the power of government officials and just taking whatever they say and not challenging it and this is what hartings problem was in this particular case he was sold a bill of goods yes but i think not because as garrett pointed out from that cia

piece to try to discredit him by the people who were supporting assad but in fact they wanted to pass this story that manaf and went in there to try to establish the collusion he took that information and never said well that's interesting but show me the video of man for going in the see in london if we're doing embassies ring to it c.c.t.v. cameras the entire city of london is and where is man if it going in and out with the large hang on you're never challenge and this is the problem don't challenge let me go to patrick last thirty seconds compare jim acosta in julian assange thirty seconds big task go ahead. that's a difficult one peter in one sense i don't know look the point is and what i pointed out earlier last couple weeks ago is that you know the media the press spent days crying over jim acosta when in fact the most important person in the field of journalism who is under threat is julius on in the in the basement the ecuadorian embassy because he represents

a pillar of western post enlightenment democratic society which is a the the right to publish to publish and be damned to have that right ok that is essential and we can still we finish on that very excellent point thank you very much that's all the time we have gentlemen many thanks to my guests in washington and in plymouth and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t.c. you next time and remember.

i got a place called camp sundown to get for people that can't decide and they're like so tired. this is like a safe house i guess they don't have to talk about what they go through with this because we understand her daughter katie was diagnosed with a very rare sudden sensitive condition if i get sunburned i heal she doesn't feel patients are going to have problems with the walk to talk to her son the brains of her actually shrinking inside the scolded flicker in the brain still small. the pain is indescribable it's feels like a really really bad chemical burn but it goes through your skin in your muscles hold it down to the bone. there's no relief. we're just not sure this

is but just. in fact a recent poll a gallup poll shows fifty seven percent of americans want a more cooperative relationship with russia so there's a disconnect that a smart politician democrat would understand needs to be seen because there's not a lot of hunger appetite for this kind of and russian politics is being fanned by a media political establishment. responding in this hour in need by joe lieberman. but i see how the powder but i again gouge and downs which i let me. know as this diagram i didn't. think i'm going to employ is going to go to the bridge. but unless i go over it was either the most almost the

whole cd i mean look if you could get them for you the one has a funny but it was you tell a million. four hundred ten days and write down the bank call for the work on the base walker chemical lies and as our business is going through that he would develop a new treatment there internationally mockers know that these industries out of polluting your dissenting ignore the money that's hype and mother number of emails and when we lost a mother tongue like means we lost even this. little more to. be with.

you know what obama will ultimately lead of my. colleagues. i can't let you know. that i'm. going to make your. president puts immigrates the saudi crown prince and since i'm down for talks with .