how serious of a roadblock. to the whole process it can't really go as far as breaking the united kingdom apart. of the prime minister's proposed. deal with the possible. how will.

the european union. troubles. do. more a former deputy prime minister and minister for foreign affairs and trade welcome to the show it's great to have you with us today lots to talk about so the border between northern ireland and the republic of ireland has become a key issue that you know that convincingly has to choose between staying in the customs union with you or putting up a hard border isolating northern island are this really the only choice is is there a third option that could work. no i think. i think that summer summarizes a really the agreement. it was made twenty years ago between our london the united

kingdom the good friday agreement which provided for the settlement of the conflict in northern ireland regulates all the relations between the main relations between our land and the united kingdom and arising from that both the irish government and the u.k. government and indeed all of the political parties in northern ireland and in the south of ireland all do not want to see a hard border we do not want to see a return to the days when there were customs posts when there were soldiers police when there was a real physical border there right now there is perfectly free movement between both parts of the island people travelling between dublin and belfast for example. most times don't even know where the border is until they realize that the petrol prices are marked in pounds or rather than in euros or the distances in miles

rather than kilometers so the border really is it's not a physical border at the moment and nobody wants to see a return of that and of course if the united kingdom leaves the costumes union as part of its levy of the european union that would in effect mean that a border would return and that's something that we don't want to happen so the discussions that have been taking place over the past two years yet. so i talk we're simply to this british m.e.p. william that more and he actually told me that the irish border issue is a trap set up by the e.u. for incompetent u.k. negotiators to trick them into a better deal for the e.u. do you share that view. no i don't share that view at all the border issue is a very very real issue is he is the only left it would be the only land border

between the united kingdom and the european union after a break such it's obviously special in that sense but it is also special in the sense that resolving the border issue was a key part of the good friday agreement which was negotiated twenty years ago between our land and the united kingdom it's an international agreement which provided for the relationships between northern ireland garland and provided also for the totality of the relationships between the united kingdom and ireland and this was always going to be an issue that was going to have to be resolved as part of. the united kingdom leaving the european union there are lots of complex issues involved there's the issue of costumes there's the issue of. environmental issues there's the issue of the single market all of these issues are involved i think it was probably an issue that needed to have been addressed more clearly before the

referendum took place but we are where we are and it has to be addressed now so northern island and island have lived without a hard border for a long time although of course they are they use different currency different rules so it is a hard border really necessary to control the flow of goods back and forth. well this is a decision really that has been made by the united kingdom which is to believe the the european union at the time that the good friday agreement was negotiated twenty years ago and the present arrangements were put in place the working assumption was that both states where would remain members of the european union and the whole construction at that time which recognized the british identity recognised the irish identity made arrangements are on the border were all made on the assumption that both countries would be part of the european union and that therefore the free movement of people the free movement of goods the same costumes arrangements the

same regulatory arrangements would all apply now that the united kingdom has decided that it wants to leave the european union obviously that issue has to be addressed back in place order accentuating that division between northern ireland and our land has economic consequences it has a lot of consequences for people particularly those who live along the border there's a free movement at the moment people move back going forward there's a lot of economic activity there's a lot of social social activity and nobody wants to see that disrupt and there is of course also the risk that the imposition of a of a real border a real hard border again would have for the peace process which was agreed to twenty years ago which has been working very successfully nobody wants to go back to the bad old days or anything remotely like that so for all of those reasons it

was necessary to address the border issue as part of these negotiations perhaps a more or less frictionless movement of goods can be maintained on the irish border eamonn in then no deal scenario under the trade facilitation agreement well that work no it has to be it has to be. i did for. that's why the backstop so-called backstop arrangement was agreed to last year and under that arrangement basically what. if we arrive at a point where there's a divergence between the united kingdom and the european union in relation to customs issues that the backstop will apply and that backstop will mean that the arrangements will be made to ensure that there isn't a hard order in other words that there continues to be what is now called in the in the draft withdrawal agreement as a. customs territory a common costumes territory between northern ireland and garland and that that

customs territory would also apply between the united kingdom. so let's say worst comes to worse and a hard border goes up between northern ireland and the republic now some are saying this could flare up the old tensions and actually mess up the good friday agreement do you think this would be enough to undo twenty years of peace. well first of all everybody. is committed not to having a hard border so it is difficult to envisage how border can be brought about the irish government the united kingdom government the european union political parties in northern ireland stated very clearly that the nobody wants to have a hard border what is what therefore has to be agreed are the arrangements with apply to avoid a hard border those arrangements are provided for in the draft withdrawal agreement

which is currently under consideration in the british houses of parliament. and we obviously have to await their decision on that but everybody from a very early stage in these negotiations have been commissioners that there will not be a hardboard of that whatever has to be done will be done to avoid a hard border so i think that's. why we've heard this moves forward the commitments that has been given all round to avoiding a hard border will have to be maintained mr gilmore hugh have one set that rex it could pave the way to a unified island and some recent polls actually show it's not just you who feels this way. what do you really mean i mean are you saying that the trouble over this border could actually lead to a partial breakup of the united kingdom well i think the issue of. a united ireland has certainly come back on the agenda. as

a result of. the break the decision much earlier. than expected. some people feel there is provision in the good friday agreement that there can be a border pole in other words a referendum people of northern ireland as to whether they want to remain in the united kingdom or whether they want to be part of a united ireland i think it's more complex than that i don't think that this is going to ever come to a head count let's just have a referendum and let's just count how many want to be united ireland how many want to be in the united kingdom. because the reality is is that there is a very large number of people in northern ireland who are british who value their connection with the the rest of the united kingdom and therefore i think would need to happen is a lot of discussion in advance about an agreed arland about agreeing what type of future arrangements would apply on the island so i think that that is

a discussion that requires a lot of consideration i think it needs to be a very reasoned discussion and it's probably one that i think would have to take place over a period of time there are a lot of issues involved in this at the center of the issues are what was really at the center of the conflict which was the the two national identities that are in northern ireland. there's an irish identity people who consider themselves our issue old irish passports and people who consider themselves british and evaluate the connection with the united kingdom so that's something that just cannot be resolved by a simple headcount being conducted anytime soon but once again we're going take a break right now and well back we'll continue talking to him and hear more former irish deputy prime minister and minister for foreign affairs and trade discussing the irish border issue here in the back the debate on its broader implications stay with us.

i've been saying the numbers mean something they matter the u.s. has over one trillion dollars in debt more than ten white collar crimes happen each day. eighty five percent of global wealth he longs to the ultra rich eight point six percent market saw a thirty percent rise last year some with four hundred to five hundred trades per circuit first second and bitcoin rose to twenty thousand dollars. china is building a two point one billion dollar a i industrial park but don't let the numbers overwhelm. the only numbers you need

to remember is one one business showed you can't afford to miss the one and only boom but. with all make this manufacture come sentenced to public wealth. when the ruling classes and protect themselves. in the final merry go round lifts only the one percent. going the whole middle of the room six. million more you leave the room. you know world of big partisan newton's laws and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream. media refuses to tell more than ever

we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door on the show. it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. to. be written to inform. us that. it will not cut deep enough to the last night.

and we're back with a man gilmore the former irish deputy prime minister and minister for foreign affairs and trade discussing the role of the irish border dale she came or what the exit scenario what potentially set up a move to unite arland will having a hard border incite people to vote to leave the u.k. or maybe having no border will contribute for there to actual island unity. well i think there are i think we have to see how this develops over over a period of time i think there are a number of factors that come into play i think there are not only to do with the issue of the border in in our land i think there is also the dynamic within the united kingdom itself the question of scotland for example if the issue of scottish

independence were to come back on the table again how would that play in relation to northern ireland i think also there's the future economic development the reality is is that. there is no good break such. that i don't think is going to work well for anybody so if for example there were a divergence in the economies between arland and the united kingdom were between the european union and the united kingdom i think that that's a factor that would come into play but again i think it comes back to a question of want to arrangements what type of vision do we have in our land for the future of our island and i think that that is a discussion that has to take place between the people who live on the island and that includes the people who was identity is british this is

a very careful discussion that has to take place i think over over a period of time i think it's back on the agenda a much earlier stage than anybody expected because of the decision of the united kingdom to to leave the european union nevertheless i think it is a discussion that cannot be rushed that has to look at all of the aspects identity cultural aspects economic aspects the arrangement future arrangements within the the island of ireland relationship with the european union relationship with the united kingdom it's a complex issue that i don't think can be rushed i think it needs time needs to be take. and with that and i think it requires a lot of very sensible rational under informed discussion like you said there is no good breakfast and tensions run high as the vote on their resumes breck's a deal is looming what are your expectations for this day of reckoning will the deal go through and probably meant when i was in london and i was in westminster

just different business but informally with some peace. it looks to me like the numbers are not there at the moment for the agreement to be passed by the house of commons i think the issue with will be what happens afterwards because if because it doesn't appear to me that there is any majority for a very clear alternative of either so if it doesn't go through i think there will be a period of uncertainty as to what is going to happen i know there's provision for the british government to set out. what it intends to do in the event of parliament not accepting the treaty but we will just have to wait and see this is very much a british decision it's very much. for the the members of parliament who've been elected by the british people to make this decision and for instance democratic unionist party has already pledged to down the draft deal and they're also threatening to pull up from the coalition with tories if may doesn't come up with

a suitable solution of the irish border issue can that happen or what will that mean for me as government and bracks as a whole i think where i think we're heading into the unknown. this country leaving the european union has never happened before so this is unprecedented in that sense i think the degree to which there is political uncertainty in london certainly and in my memory i cannot recall any previous occasion when there seem to be the same degree of divisions and indeed divisions within the main political parties so i think the political outcome of this this decision in westminster is uncertain there has been a lot of speculation as to what might happen if parliament votes votes the stone is a possible that's prime minister might talk again with brussels on some. clarifications or sold for the agreement that would cause another vote to take

place in parliament i don't know is is there an alternative being proposed by those who are going to vote. do they have an alternative that they prefer that they were put to parliament which would command a majority we haven't seen that yet and meanwhile as you know the momentum i think is continuing to grow in the united kingdom for a second vote of the people to make a decision and i think if parliament doesn't make a decision i think if we find ourselves christmas a new year without a decision being made by parliament i think about momentum is likely to increase in the new year but i think people will say well you know parliament hasn't been able to resolve this the people have to make the ultimate decision so if the plan is rejected if mays plan is rejected what happens to the e.u. u.k. negotiations can there be another deal hammered out that would be accepted by all twenty seventy states i mean which sounds like a very complicated time consuming. well as you say it is very complicated so if you

look at this agreement it's six hundred pages it's a lot of detail it's covering everything from what happens to u.k. citizens who are living in countries with their pensions their social welfare payments their health services what happens to people from the e.u. countries who are working in the u.k. students what happens to trade what happens if somebody is arrested for example on the twenty ninth of march twenty ninth dean and they haven't been transferred to the other country. all of these all of these issues are provided for in the agreement now if there isn't a look remember well i think we're very much into uncertain territory there is the provision that the deadline the twenty ninth of march two thousand and nine hundred dead line that can be extended by agreement. the british prime minister has said that she's not countenancing that i think where if it were to allow for more time

to discuss and debate things i think that there may well be agreement on that but of course it does require the agreement of all trying. the seven member states were remaining in the european union to agree to that extension of time that's probably the most likely scenario it's very difficult to countenance a situation that would arise on the twenty ninth of march where there is no agreement i think it's a recipe for chaos i think a lot of. a lot of things if you look at the detail of what's in the agreement. and that agreement does not apply in the absence of of an agreement i think we're in very very own chartered waters simister violence trade with the e.u. goes through british ports what silence plan in case of a no deal suffering through the terrorists are trying to limit its reliance on a land bridge which would prove more costly. well i think there would be

a number of well there are options of course. i mean there are sea connections between our ports. ports on the continental mainland i think i would expect that they would be that the use of those would would probably be increased i think there would probably be an increased use of air travel for goods. on the continent or may not and certainly has an economic consequence there's a lot of calls at the moment which travel from our lunch to the u.k. through the u.k. and on to the continental to the continental mainland of course it also works in the other other direction a lot of the u.k. imports coming from the continent of europe come by by sea and of course the u.k. so own trade with our land is also very large. our land is the u.k. the fifth largest trading partner there's trade every week between our under the united kingdom in the amount of about one billion euros it's

a huge amount of trade between between the two islands and that would be seriously disrupted by a new. deal situation the sensible thing clearly is that there there is no agreement that there is an agreed arrangement to what happened on the twenty ninth of march i prefer if it wasn't happening at all. but it is happening and therefore if it is happening it's better that it's done on an agreed basis whereby there are arrangements put in place in visage all kinds of scenarios and of course one of the things that the withdrawal treaty also does is a puts in place and arrangement between the european union and the united kingdom to deal with the things that perhaps made it may have been overlooked or new problems that may arise in the arrangement and it provides for this two year period within which there will be phasing out of the arrangement where the future arrangement between the european union and the u.k.

including the trade arrangement can be a great that's the sensible way to do it i think a situation where it comes to a cliff age there's no agreement i think that's the worst of all scenarios what about the flow of people not just goods not just goods and trade could the common trout larry arrangements between the u.k. and ireland turn it into i don't know a back door for illegal immigration into the u.k. in case of a no deal. i don't think so first of all. there was a common travel area between our land on the united kingdom before both countries and we both joined the european union european common market and then once on the same day in one thousand nine hundred three and so the common traveler a arrangement pretty data is that there are arrangements that can be put in place at airports and ports i recall during the years of the troubles in our land where

you know the you know the words people have to go. go to certain. reports if there were traveling. there are ways in which. can be. addressed. thank you very much mr gilmore for this interview talking to. minister for foreign affairs and trade discussing the irish border were part of the trouble. that is it for this edition of.

the say. there won't be cheap. and then to come through. let's. go through a few he said if you. leave this country. this is what we don't understand how we are in such a. similar . got. with the plane.

come to the three story you have to see. the. the. blue. blue blue. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy to confront let it be an arms race in this on off and spearing dramatic development only closely i'm going to resist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical of time time to sit down and talk. prosecution only. where you. just read you'll find. somebody not known plus you do i mean yeah i mean i mean political pressure on the.

business models used by american corporations. to use. solution. as it is just simply deleting. an investigative documentary. ghost more. i've been saying the numbers mean something they matter the u.s. has over one trillion dollars in debt more than ten white collar crimes happen each day. eighty five percent of global wealth you longs to be rich eight point six percent market saw a thirty percent rise last year some with four hundred to five hundred three per

second per second and bitcoin rose to twenty thousand dollars. china is building a two point one billion dollar a i industrial park but don't let the numbers overwhelm. the only numbers you need remember in one one distance shows you can't afford to miss the one and only. french president a monument to pass to break his silence from some of the most violent protests in decades with some outlets blaming social media for feeling west. process foreign minister warns donald trump.