to dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door on the path and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. prosecution will need to become almost. a full focus on. where you can push us on this thread you'll find somebody known to us you do i mean yeah i'm yeah i mean political pressure on that i need him on call told to security jenison knows where to put your kind of business models he was my american corporations doubtless was incomplete please sold on couldn't matilda's it has to use c. controls on the scene and the solution. lies up

in association with the potato. i noted when he saw it is just some really good deleted data an investigative documentary. ghost war on oxy. hello and welcome to cross talk where all things considered i'm peter lavelle u.s. secretary of state mike pompei always declared multi-lateralism in international affairs a failure what is needed according to him is a new liberal order led by the united states such an order calls into question some important issues does this mean the universal ization of american law and limited

sovereignty for the rest of the world. cross talking pax americana i'm joined by my guest james chatteris in washington he's a former u.s. diplomat and former advisor to the u.s. senate republican leadership in new york we have daniel was our he's an author and freelance journalist who writes frequently about the middle east eastern europe and the us constitution and in madrid we've crossed two men well lopez norris he is the author of pax americana and he's a university lecturer as well as a contributor at expansion all right gentlemen cross talk rules and i think that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate jim let me go to you first in washington iow i thought we already had pax americana that's why i'm calling this program pax some american a two point zero because it seems like mr pompei you have some interesting ideas presenting it to the. international diplomats at the u.s.

marshall fund i thought it was quite interesting their reaction it was clearly quite tepid it was kind of very quiet clapping here it just looks like unilateralism to me and i thought the u.s. created both lateral organizations. for the second world war to create a more stable order it seems now get rid of the un the walk away from the paris climate deal which i don't have a problem with the international court of justice. i could go on and on about all these relationships and agreements how does walking away from all of them and more make it safer for the world including the united states go ahead jim. well it doesn't make it safer and i think the problem is less unilateral and unilateral isn't per se but this defiance for the rule of law not only internationally but even our own constitution i think mr pump speech was

a triumph of mr rection that it was essential the old neo conservative line poured into an america first rhetorical bottle it so it was woodrow wilson masquerading as pat buchanan i think will he or his speechwriter was trying to give the impression this is what mr trump promised in two thousand and sixteen what he's really giving us is what has been destroying america in the world for the last thirty years where we get to be the sovereign over the entire planet and tell everybody else to do but we don't we don't actually look out for our own narrow national interests i mean we can send troops illegally to syria but we can't send them to our own border to defend that good point daniel it's universal is ation of american long because i mean we have this situation with a chinese national that was detained in canada who. we the chinese company here as we're sitting down here i read that a former canadian diplomat has been detained in china so now the the

game begins here i don't understand how you know you know a lot or lose them makes america stronger it seems to me the new isolating itself more and more from the world yeah i gotta agree with that if the paradox is that the pompei o is making a bid for unilateral ism. precisely at the moment when u.s. foreign policy is falling apart. the us foreign policy is in disarray and afghanistan syria saudi arabia where the u.s. has a real disaster on its hands with mohamed bin salomon and the ukraine where where essentially puts and has smartly. wrapped america's knuckles. over the current strait so america is actually doing very poorly but as its performance declines the rhetoric seems to soar so now it is talking about imposing

american dick tot on the entire world. makes no sense it's actually quite laughable you know lenin well in looking at pale speech the purse thing that came to my mind is well what happens if other countries disagree with this unilateralism what happens when china says no russia says no iran's says no even you says no i mean pompei you didn't seem to really address that just assuming that everyone is going to agree to american unilateralist and i thought it was a very bizarre speech go ahead and madrid. well i don't think that he was speaking in absolute terms so if you need a lot to release him back to you know a lot of those whom he i think he tried to calm european allies. down here he tried to calm us here because obviously the new york paul the sea from a u.s. president is different from the rest at least since world war two so basically instead of having the liberal wardour of their employees as usual which has been in

my opinion and journal widely beneficial for the wall in general terms even though we can find exceptions charges we have. instead of following the same procedures as the other presidents. i was trying to say is that yes we have a person who has to shawnee and tradition who wants to forget about the wall on the work he's very much interested in he's going to be very rough but the warri all his talk about nato because we're going to try to keep in place these legal war there we're going to keep in place pax americana but we're just going to try to come vine combine it with america first i think that can be an issue and i agree with you in the end up part which i also think it's impossible or very difficult to mix. and that's a reason why. your opinions here in germany just basically were not very enthusiastic about. question was going to happen well if they pull out on the

go back to unilateralism well i think the rest of the country the rest of the already see that so. we just get into a more sane than usual because we go back to before world war two where and we had . bilateral deals retreat from america from the world. basically go but we're going back to instead of multilateralism on collective security concepts well going back to yeah we're going to ok if we're going back to before the first second world war well what happened what brought about the second world war i think you know history tells us a lot of things there jim it seems to me that you know pompei wants to live in a world where the united states determines the geopolitical interests of just about everyone and to determine what countries what kind of friendships other countries can have with other countries ok for example the relationship that. iran house with syria that's for bowden in the pompei

a world that i mean there are two sovereign countries they decide to cooperate i mean that's how we've settled see international law i worry that international law itself is going to be dispensed with and you'll just have an american you universalize dictate of what what it's legal and what isn't legal and of course it'll be legal to the advantage of one country go ahead jim. well i would agree with everything you said except for the very last part of the advantage of one country i don't think it's to the advantage of the i it's that although ok the present aside i agree cletus the perception that it would be to their advantage go ahead good point going to challenge him that's right the worst of the quest for global domination and that's what really amounts to. this will ended war peter this is this is something that is extremely dangerous a one part of mr pompei oestrus speech really struck me when he talked about sovereignty for ourselves and for our friend france but that means i guess we have the unilateral right to say what other countries sovereignty should be

a bridge not because they have violated any internationally agreed upon or binding rule but because we say so towards we we have a situation where we're not only one of the players on the international stage we also get to be the referee of the umpire and if need be the executioner and this cannot end well peter that we cannot continue to divide the world into satellites and vassals on the one side and enemies on the other side especially when we're lining up with not only iran but but but russia and china as potential enemies remember there was a recent report by a congressionally mandated commission saying that not only might there be a war with russia or china we could lose that war this the unthinkable for thirty years forty years during the old cold war has now become thinkable because of this mindset you know daniel going back to my pump a i mean and looking what he's been on the as a man on the job i guess nine months he's been on the job right now he's probably

the most undepressed matic secretary of state the united states has ever had i mean he did he never talked about diplomacy and he says he hates awkward questions. it is at odds with his vision which i'm i'm not particularly sure i understand it completely because it doesn't make any sense logically but i mean diplomacy is a. the secretary of state's strong card is it not not a law i mean the this administration thoroughly rejects diplomacy and shaped war more whatsoever but the the important thing is that the us foreign policy is doing very poorly. the us is struggling on multiple fronts it's just overstretched it's these of the china and. russia no it's completely isolated on the red except for saudi arabia and israel no one's lining up behind the us policy there so america is proclaiming its.

global sovereignty at a time when its power is increasingly in trouble. speaking as a european do you think that washington should dictate european security energy security policy like demanding that europeans not buy russian natural gas. well i think those comments some time ago we. were very inappropriate because always really we. kind of unthinkable law that the u.s. president would get into all of those kind of issues. that kind of thing was not a problem to any other former u.s. presidents but having said that he does so think it will so it's strange for him to say that. it seems to me that it could be a little bit of politics here on there he's always on campaign he has these russian collusion thing behind on there might be something obviously there's a lot of information out there so he might be plane

a little bit now that he's been tough rougher than ever. yeah but i think it's i it's also that he wants the europeans by american natural gas through l.n.g. are you gentlemen i'm going to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on pax americana state with art. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then. i've been saying the numbers mean something they matter the u.s. has over one trillion dollars in debt more than ten white collar crimes happen each

day. eighty five percent of global wealth he longs to be rich eight point six percent market saw thirty percent just last year some with four hundred to five hundred trade per second per second and bitcoin rose to twenty thousand dollars. china is building a two point one billion dollar a i industrial park but don't let the numbers overwhelm. the only number you need to remember is one one to show you can't afford to miss the one and only. welcome back to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing pax americana.

let me go back to jim a in washington jim you said in a previous comment that that it was the u.s. would pursue its own interest and its the american allies that were aligned with american interests but as i meant. at the end of the first part of the program he energy policy there's beginning to be a big divergence and if the europeans don't fall in line they're going to be punished ok when you look at the sanction warnings about buying a rainy and energy a lot of they were a lot of countries that got dispensations but not really the europeans i mean donald trump because i'm for the complete break up of nato and a new security architecture for europe i think it's a way overdue but you know donald trump with this rhetoric coming from his secretary of state well that's his hastening and it's bringing it closer to fruition which i'm actually quite happy about go ahead jim. well let me let me

throw a little curveball here peter is that the suggestion has been made that donald trump is really playing four dimensional chess here and by putting all these these neo cons in his administration he is deliberately breaking down all of the things that bind us to these other countries breaking down the liberal international order of by pretending to uphold it but then failing and doing that i don't buy any of this i must say but some people have this theory look when the president across france said oh we want to have our own european army which is a silly idea because europe really doesn't have any external security threats you think of america first president say hey great little macro that's great you have your army we'll get out and they get to see around you have fun over there instead he threaten its stead he threatens him now maybe you know some people look at the pulling out of the i.m.f. agreement to this as you say printing them over energy security maybe at some point the europeans grow a pair and say we've had enough and breakaway and would accomplish just what you

would you were talking about i don't see that happening though i think one of the problems is is the european leaders are so weak so worthless so willing to be dictated to that there's no limit to how much they will actually crawl one washington barks you know daniel it doesn't in a way the more that the trump administration bullies and i think it's an appropriate word bullies its european allies the more of that and the more instability that we see i'm thinking of france right now this is the usual two two years of nonsense called brags that i mean this should give a lot of europeans ponce about maybe trying to read to go their own way much more so i mean the united states it's either our way or the highway maybe they will start reconsidering some of their policies and i'm obviously thinking about russia at this point we of course have these machinations going on in ukraine which unfortunately. the trumpet ministration is continues to support go ahead daniel.

well i think that james though is correct and i think the the the europeans are in such disarray as well these days they're just too weak to to oppose trump trump is weak also but the europeans for the moment seem to be even weaker so it's a kind of a battle of the weak and it's very hard to establish any kind of broader leadership in this increasingly. chaotic environment we find ourselves but you know but that said there is no trouble is breaking out all over the place and especially the iranian situation and syria and israel and saudi arabia is increasingly dangerous. but also the u.s. seems intent on pouring oil on the fire you know men well you know rand was just mentioned right here. in new britain

a book about pax americana i mean i can i understood the post cold war i'm sorry post world war two order that was created by the united states i understand the intent behind it in the context of the cold war but after the cold war and the rise of this kind of neal. neo con ideology i mean a sane person wouldn't say focus all of american foreign policy on iran i mean there that's obviously politics going on there and also if you look at some of the issues that the the u.s. is intruding upon it on the korean peninsula i mean the koreans are actually making some progress moving towards peace there but the u.s. is dragging its feet and it is planning it seemingly so planning a war against iran how is that possibly in the interest of anyone including americans. well it's very difficult to understand that's why it's something say that the. only explanation possible is that some people in the administration are

very much influenced by people to have. an outlook which is very far away from the western outlook which is very dualistic money and it comes from say a very dualistic view of the world which has some apocalyptic connotations and some of the advice sort of even might compare himself he's thinking that if things go to war it's ok because in the middle east there's going to something is going to happen called armor gate um and everything is going to be fine off the so if we messed that whole thing up and nothing is going to happen i from going to explain that you're quite plausible because otherwise you wouldn't understand what happened with bush on iraq in two thousand and three and some other pressure and i mean i mean it's a total opposite to what barker obama or even bill clinton and even george howell but walker bush who died recently how to do with i mean it's a. it's open to the western values onto the western outlook and it has absolute

nonsense but the theme is in order to understanding i think you have to put yourself in his shoes and his feet and understand that they have a very different outlook that has to do with we have to do with prophecies in the future and it's very interesting you know jim it seems to me daniel is already mentioned on this program is that on on so many different levels and dimensions american foreign policy is very chaotic right now there's no rhyme or reason to it that i can see but one thing i think pompei o in his elk are responding to is the you know polar moment is either already over or it's rapidly coming to an end and i think that that explains this this sudden reaction you know with all these posture reports about picking enemies preparing for a conflict and because the you know polar moment was supposed to last forever it was the new radiant future you know it is come to it's coming to a close and the u.s. is lashing out because it's. feels that its. moment is

evaporating before its eyes go ahead jim you mean you mean the thousand year unit polar moment isn't going to last that long look i gree with that here and i think part of the problem is that we're not looking at a pre world war two situation we're looking at a pre world war one situation that the invalid states insists and when i say united states i mean this really bad foreign policy team that mr trump has assembled if they insist on trying to perpetuate a uni polar moment global hegemony that is visibly failing instead of coming to terms with the other rising powers probably russia and china to maybe some extent with india to come up with a stable concert of powers understood sewers of influence where we don't clash and we stay out of each other's business we stayed out of each other's face unless that happens relatively soon something very very bad is going to happen i think right now the top contender for that is ukraine where mr poroshenko is because of his his

dismal reelection bid is is staging the provocations like he did in the current strait he's going after churches and monasteries and ukraine which is going to result in violence and i think russia may have to respond things are going to get very ugly fairly soon we don't know where or how unless somehow we pull back from trying to maintain a a global dominance the simply cannot be continued you know daniel and i look at all of us here on this program here and we're in the same generation ok we were all brought up you know being aware of the possibility of war the cold war there were we had the cuban missile crisis for example and you know it seems to me that the policymakers now are are not as wary as war is they should be i mean now there's a nucular document doctrine where conceiving of making small nukes. you know for

a battlefield i remember in the one nine hundred eighty s. that was scoffed at is total madness and now we've gone back to it it seems like these these people in power don't understand that how close we can come to a complex because you know from living here in russia russia will do everything everything to protect that sovereignty and it's made that clear to everyone but that's heard on deaf ears by people like mike pompei o and john bolton go ahead daniel. i agree totally i mean the abrogation of the intermediate range nuclear forces treaty is is very dangerous i mean the us is walking away from some very important. nuclear arms accords that were hammered out in the last years of the of the cold war and now it's just casting them aside this is a this is amazingly irresponsible amazingly reckless but the u.s. is doing it then and it's almost impossible to imagine what the repercussions will

be but it's important to bear in mind that the old the old pax americana one point zero is forming a part trump has no idea what to replace it with because he's just crazy. but there's the oh he's reasserting us. unilateral ism at a time when the chaos is increasing in the us actually has diminishing power. and i think it's very important point. what one one country which is pushing these preparing things the breaking point and that's israel i mean is real is the major force in washington it's very influential in washington as we all know and it is the country which is pushing for a rupture with the with iran and pushing for action against bashar al assad in syria and the sensually. israel is the one country on earth that

america can't can't say no to so so israel is kind of calling the shots and israel's confrontation with with iran is deepening and that's that scene that conflict seems to be honest and you know it is it is and the other contrast if i could stay with you we only have a few more seconds of you add to that i'm agreeing with you one more layer and the now open alliance that riyadh house would tell of beeves and they are like minded in their objectives to. confront iran. yes but that but but the the riyadh regime is falling apart before our very eyes i mean that that regime is in a in an advanced state of crisis i don't know what will one replace of the next in the next year or so but i m.b.'s can't stand power and the al saud are themselves falling apart so what's going to happen in saudi arabia the u.s. is relying on saudi arabia but it's the most it's tricky with a good chance

a very bad slow down allies in the region we've run out of time gentlemen many thanks my guests and want you to new york and in madrid and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at our d.c. unix time and remember. when else seemed wrong. wrong just don't. let me. get to see. this day become educated and in detroit equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground.

when lawmakers manufacture consent to instant of public wealth. when the ruling classes protect themselves. with the financial merry go round of lives only the one percent. of the time doing all middle of the room signals. doing room dream real news is real world. prosecution will need to become almost. the fault is all between cold where you push us off the threat of fines can also by the number one proceed to i mean yeah i mean i've moved out political pressure on the god you've only men called golden earthworm security jenison knows what the phone your kind of business models he was my american corporations jadhav wasn't completely sold on couldn't matilda's it as an m.p.

use the controls and see a man who was not on the scene. the solution. lies up in association. i noted when he saw small dogs it is just simply his ability to maintain an investigative documentary. ghost war on oxy. the ados a saying. i think there will be chief justice and then through and through all that country stuff let's ideas on their right to go to his country he said to me give them everything slipped into fast. leave this country. this is what we don't understand how we are in such

a country it's. the nurse until the ones at the same time. noticing how come into. the saloon to run up a little similar symbol. if the minority of on board not their god can we believe again with the phone without the computer without the plane. would come back to the three story you have to see . at least in the best. move. to the would now be a vote of confidence in my view to ship of the conservative party i will contest that vote with everything. the u.k. prime minister faced.